the kugels and veggies can be heated up in the micro. Take the brisket out and let it get to room temp and heat up the gravy super hot, pour it over the brisket and let that heat up the meat. In a pinch, you really can heat everything up in the microwave.

Are you having guests? If not, let everything heat up while you change into regular clothes and have a drink. If you are, have some bowls of nuts out, then start with either a soup, salad or fish that is eaten cold. That should give you a few minutes.

AM

PS L'shana tova.

Hi Arabella,

Yes, we're having guests which makes this much more nerve wracking--enough company that DH thinks one kugel won't be enough. (I better see if my 9x13 pans fit into our microwave.) I like the idea of using the microwave because it's so fast but I'm afraid that microwaving somehow changes the quality of the food. That's why I was hoping someone could say that 20 minutes in a 250 degree oven would suffice. I guess it depends on how much food is in the oven, how dense the food is, etc.

Thanks for your response, and a happy and healthy holiday to you and yours.

I would think if you leave everything out to reach room temp while you are in temple that it wouldn't take as long then to heat it. While the gravy is heating on the stove, you can put the other dishes in the oven. I would bet you can have dinner on the table in 30 min.
Lisa

Is the oven convection? If it is, it shouldn't matter much how much food is in the oven. It would be more a factor of how thick the food is (e.g. how deep are the pans).

If the oven is well preheated, it will maintain temperature better when you open it to load it. For the oven that has timed operation, you could have it turn on but be empty before you come home from shul so it will be solidly up to temperature. Then load it when you get home.

I think it would take more like 30 minutes to heat things through.

Large quantities in the microwave would take longer to heat up than when you just zap a plateful. Heating evenly without changing the food works better with lower power levels in the micro but then it takes even longer. I think overall loading everything into the ovens will get everything evenly warmed more quickly.

L'shanah tovah tikatevu!

I love me timed oven. (It's gas too, and I set it and leave it all the time.) So tell hubby not to worry.

I agree with a few things already mentioned above. Take out and let arrive to room temp while your gone, or put in the oven and set to start baking an hour before you return home. (You do have to slightly compensate for the extra "heat up" time in your cooking.) I'd say probably 40 minutes baking time at 325. (Mine will hold another 1hr at 170F once the timed bake is over.)
Or if you don't want the oven baking the food while your gone, then just as Cloud Swift suggests, get the oven up to temp by setting it..And as Lisa suggests, put out the items on the counter to come to room temp while your away..
~I have no idea how long you'll be at temple..so if your away more than two hours, I'd go with the items in the oven set to come on for an hour bake, and let it be resting in the warm oven when you return.

Great answers everyone. Our services are much longer than two hours. Will it be safe (food safety-wise) to have our food out of the fridge and on the counter for four hours or longer?

Maybe the answer is to put the food in the oven, set it to start in an hour or so (maybe two hours, whatever the food safety ceiling is), and have it warm up to a very low temperature. I'll keep it at that temperature for about an hour. Then when it turns off, it will still be warm enough in the oven. Think that would work without risk of drying out the food?

Cloud Swift,

Do you think it would take 30 minutes to warm up everything even if it starts out at fridge temp? (Just to pacify DH.)

I just checked with my DH (who with other Men's club members does things like this to serve Shabbat kiddish at our shul) - he says more like an hour or two to get to serving temp from fridge temp - they usually set it up to be two hours before kiddish since some extra time at low temp should be okay. Of course, they are doing full sheet pans filled perhaps more deeply than your home pans.

If you haven't used the timed bake of your oven before, do a test run tonight just to make sure you know how to set it and that it performs as it is suppose to.

I think the safest thing that would get your food on the table quickly is to set the oven to start at 250 degrees F about an hour before the earliest you expect to get home from shul. Load the oven with the food from the refrigerator before you leave for shul.

That probably won't all fit in your timed oven - I'd put the foods in that are least likely to be hurt (taste wise) by being cooked a bit extra - the brisket, the chicken and the kugel. Assuming the vegetables are green veggies that you don't want to overcook, you can pop them in the second oven when you get home or do them in the microwave.

I'm figuring:
ovens are normally well insulated so, when you put the food in from the fridge, the oven will act like an ice chest keeping the food cool until the oven comes on;
it will take the oven a while to heat so say the first 20 to 30 minutes is heating time given that the oven will be cooled down by the food;
guests usually take a half hour to arrive, greet everyone and settle down to be ready to eat;
an hour of heating will be necessary and 2 hours won't hurt.

If it was just me and my immediate family, I might leave some of it out of the fridge to come up to room temp while at shul, but for a large crowd not knowing the medical status of everyone, I hate to take the chance. Whether it was safe or not would also depend on the exact nature of the food and how it was handled. Here's my understanding (as an engineer - not a biologist :^) ) Sterile sealed food can't spontaneously grow bacteria when it is left at room temperature - the reason proper canning and those irradiated food packs work. The reason it isn't safe to leave foods at room temperature too long is that they aren't starting out sterile - a little bacteria is fought off by your system but if food is out too long the bacteria can multiply. If I'm dealing with say a casserole that was cooked in the pan it is in and covered without handling after it came out of the oven, I figure not much is going to happen while it sits out to come up to room temperature because it hasn't had much chance to pick up bacteria. On the other hand, if I added raw ingredients after it cooked or transferred it from the pot it cooked in to a serving dish, it has had more chance to pick up contamination.

That said, the FDA food code says "potentially hazardous food" can be kept without temperature control for up to 4 hours past the point when it is removed from temperature control. (3-501.19 Time as a Public Health Control.* )

"Potentially hazardous food" includes an animal food (a food of animal origin) that is raw or heat-treated; a food of plant origin that is heat-treated or consists of raw seed sprouts; cut melons; and garlic-in-oil mixtures that are not modified in a way that results in mixtures that do not support growth as specified under Subparagraph (a) of this definition.

Here is a link that might be useful: FDA code

Wow, Cloud Swift! Thanks so much! I really appreciate that information.

Now don't kill me when I tell you this, but I just spoke with someone locally who told me that it's supposed to be really warm here all week--which means a lighter, cooler lunch might be in order. (Just like in decorating, I can't seem to make a decision.) Grrr. I think the answer will be at the grocery store. If I can't find a brisket then I'll have to change the menu.

But thanks again for all your help!

What about aiming in between - a cool first course with some salads and appetizers - maybe a pasta salad, marinated cucumber salad (cause its my favorite - a little sweet and a little vinegary with some ginger for spice), a cool spiced vegetable like Morrocan carrots. Follow with a hot course that will have had plenty of time to warm up - something like what you originally planned but fewer dishes - maybe the brisket or the chicken and the potato kugel (to keep the traditionalists happy) and maybe a veggie but thats pretty well covered by the first course.

I agree Cloud Swift..that's wonderful information for any occasion! Thanks!

Meg,

I'm not Jewish, but my best friend is. When you mentioned brisket, it reminded me that she used to have a really tough time slicing brisket (it would shred and look terrible for company). Then a friend of hers told her that she should partially cook the brisket and then refrigerate it. The cold brisket sliced beautifully and she could then cook the brisket the rest of the way right before her company came. She was kicking herself for not figuring that out on her own.

You probably already know this, but I pass it on, just in case. I hope you have a lovely meal!

Thanks everyone. I think your suggestions, Cloud Swift, are brilliant. I will give it some thought.

DH and I are following a certain diet that makes pasta and carrots a problem but our guests would like it. Another friend suggested that I should forget about trying to make a brisket and stick with a tried and true recipe. So I might just stick with a roasted chicken and veggie dish that's delicious but looks bad--and everyone will smell of garlic the next day.

Sharon S, thanks for that info. I had heard to cook it all the way through, then let it cool. Then refrigerate. Then skim off the fat. I wasn't sure if you slice it once it's cooled off or after it's refrigerated, so I'm glad for the clarification.

New tentative menu:

Very simple appetizers such as pita and cold veggies with hummus, etc. (If I can think of something else that's quick and easy, and non-dairy, I'll try it.)

Tossed salad
Pasta salad
Marinated cucumber salad

country chicken and vegetables (basically roasted chicken and veggies with lots of garlic)
potato kugel
roasted Brussels sprouts

Anyone know how far in advance I can make the chicken?

DH is killing me now. He's not sure that the chicken dish is kid friendly and whether it fits for the holiday. Grrrr.

I'm this close to getting rotisserie chicken from the local market and calling it a day.

I use microwave ovens a lot but unless you have several large ones, they would take too long to heat food for a crowd.

For regular ovens that can hold a low temperature, fully-cooked foods can be kept for hours at 170. Moist foods will hold even longer than dry ones -- just cover them to prevent drying out. But figure an hour or longer to warm it up from refrigerator temperature (depends on how big/solid the pieces -- surface-to-volume ratio and density to the scientifically trained). Remember, you are not trying to recook the food, but warm up the interior without hurting the exterior, so while higher temperatures will heat faster, they'll also recook the foods.

If your oven can't hold a low temp, or if the food will be out for serving for a long time, consider a warming device like a Salton hot tray. Food safety is about keeping foods hot (or cold) -- what you don't want is perishable food sitting out at room temperature. Most home-cooked foods are not heated for the long time period or elevated temperatures required to sterilize them, so it's safest to keep them hot or cold.

And don't knock cold foods -- I happen to love cold chicken and sliced brisket (but with ketchup or another cold sauce rather than gravy) on a hot day. (Okay, the potato kugel would probably be better hot.)

If the chicken (or any other food) is in a flavorful sauce and isn't supposed to be crisp, make it at least a day ahead for best flavor. For stew-like dishes, no reason not to make them as much as two or three days ahead, but the longer they'll sit, the lighter the hand with seasoning.

The way I handle after-services meals is to have appetizers ready-to-go in the fridge. That way guests can get comfortable while we serve drinks and wait for everyone to arrive. I serve mainly vegetable salads and pickled vegetables since they are on just about everyone's diet but don't spoil the dinner. If people are likely to be very hungry or dinner will be delayed, gefilte fish, herring salad, deviled eggs or some kind of egg spread are satisfying but light first courses for meat meals. Cold soups are nice, but I reserve any that can't be sipped from a cup without the help of a spoon for served seated dinners.

As far as menu suggestions go, our guests really enjoy guacamole -- a family tradition since DH is from Texas, but "good eats" to almost everyone.

Thanks for the info, livingthedream,

So do you agree that I can leave for temple at around 9:00 with the food in the oven and have the timer set to go on about an hour before we get back? That means that the food will be in the oven for about three hours before the heat turns on. Am I risking food poisoning that way?

Safety isn't likely to be a problem if the food was fully cooked in the first place and then covered and refrigerated as soon as possible. Reheating it to at least 150, but preferably a bit higher, at least on the surface, will kill off most of the bacteria. In other words, a thorough heating will practically reset the clock on the period the food can stand at room temperature. Plus, your food will start out at at refrigerator temperature.

The big challenge is reheating the food to safe serving temperature without overcooking it. The problem is that a good holding temperature is not a very good reheating temperature. You have to heat it a long time at a low temperature. Using a higher oven temperature won't take as long to heat the center, but risks overcooking the outside.

Unless what you are heating is very thin I think you will need more than an hour. Personally, as long as the meat is moist and covered, I'd give it 1 1/2 to 2 hours at 170. I've never done it for four hours, so I'm not recommending keeping it at 170 for the entire four-hour period, but in theory it should work.

Yikes. Lack of sleep has taken its toll. My head is spinning what with all the menu and guest changes, etc. The logistics alone are driving me nutty.

So here's the plan. If someone can please tell me if this will work (and be safe) that would be great:

--I'm going to make the chicken and vegetable dish tomorrow, and cook it thoroughly;

--then I'm going to let it cool off on the counter;

--once it's at room temperature, then I'll refrigerate it;

Before I leave for temple Thursday morning, I will take the chicken out of the fridge and put it in our cold oven.

I will set the timer so that the oven will start to heat up. I plan to heat the chicken at approx. 180 degrees for about 90 minutes but that includes the time the oven goes from zero degrees to 180. We will not be home until around 1:30.

What do all you food experts think? If you see any flaws in my plan, or if you know of a better way, please tell me.

Thanks again for all your advice. I just can't think anymore. (I know; I sound so pathetic!)

I suggest you loosely cover the dish right after it's cooked, to keep dust and airborne bacteria from settling on it. Be careful not to overcook it. I also suggest you also program the oven to turn off as well, say in three hours, just in case you are delayed.

I wouldn't worry too much about the time needed to heat up the oven. Radiant heat will warm the dish at the same time it warms the oven. Nor is anything going from zero to 180 -- the oven will be at room temperature, and by that time the food will probably be pretty close to room temperature.

If the center of the chicken is still cool when you get home (it depends on how big the pieces are) at that point you can raise the temperature or finish it off in the microwave.

Thanks so much. Can you tell I'm stressing here? And I think DH is right that the garlic-y roast chicken and veggies dish is not very pretty. So I think I'm doing a last-minute switch to apricot currant chicken, or lemon garlic chicken.

I'm not making potato kugel now either since a friend has scared me off potentially gray kugel. (Also, I can't find all the food processor blades!) So now it's apple carrot muffins which is more fitting for the holiday.

It will be amazing if I can pull this off. And, on that note, I better go.

So, Meg--how did it go?

Hi all! As you can probably tell from my previous posts, I'm a nervous cook but, all in all, I think it went well. The easiest part, it turned out, was reheating the chicken since I had so much help on this board.

If I had read my oven directions earlier I would have found out that they did not recommend leaving the food in the oven at room temp for longer than two hours so I had the chicken re-heating for about four hours. Luckily it was still moist and delicious, if I do say so myself.

I did have a cooking/baking disaster. Apparently our food processor blades disappeared in the move so potato kugel was out. Instead I tried a "fool proof" carrot and apple muffin recipe. I think my lower oven is not calibrated properly--first time I used it to bake--so the muffins did not rise properly and were raw inside. I threw them out and made couscous instead. Also had a great green salad and roasted brussel sprouts.

Although cloud swift's salad suggestions were great, I realized that adding another course meant more plates and silverware to clean, etc. So instead I opted for regular appetizers and served the green salad with the main course.

Anyway, it went fine and I learned a lot--like not waiting until the last minute to do everything. But that's just how I do most things. Thanks for asking. And a happy and a healthy New Year everyone.

It sounds great! I totally understand the "nervous cook" thing. I love to cook, I feel like I'm a good cook, but I panic if I have to cook for company. So much so that I avoid it as much as possible. It's something that I have to get over, but it gives me a lot of anxiety. :-(

Congrats on a successful dinner. Sounds like you handled the road blocks with grace!