Zojuroshi is what the folks at King Arthur Flour recommend and they're the folks who know bread!

My advice is to the get the very best machine you can if you intend to use it. I've had mine for 30 years. I had the motherboard replaced once but it was worth it because I love that machine. It was a National that was taken over by Panasonic and it isn't made anymore.

If I were buying a new machine I'd get the Zojuroshi.

I have two bread machines. I have also given a bread machine to my son, one to my daughter, and one to a young woman that I am friends with.

I get these bread machines at yard sales, which is testimonial enough about people who think they're going to use one and then don't. Normally they are marked $10 or $20 but I can usually get them down to $5. You can also look at flea markets if there aren't many yard sales in your area. You might also post a message on your local FreeCycle, or if you have a "trading post" on your Saturday morning radio you can advertise there that you're looking for a bread machine. If you work, you could post something on the bulletin board. That way, you aren't out a lot of money if you end up not using it.

In my opinion, if you can go this route, it doesn't matter what brand. If you find yourself using it a lot, then you can invest in the Cadillac of all bread machines if you want. If you turn out to be someone who doesn't use the bread machine, then you won't have an expensive bread machine in your attic. Give yourself a month or two for the novelty to wear off and then if you're still using the "cheap" machine, that's a pretty good indication you're going to use it regularly.

When you buy a "used" machine, make sure it's nice and clean and has the little "hook" that fits down onto the post in the bottom of the bread pan. If it has the instruction booklet, that's a plus. I don't really care for those that have a hole in the bottom of the bread pan as they tend to leak. So I don't buy a bread machine that doesn't have the post built into the bread pan itself. Before you buy, lift out the pan and look at the heating element, make sure it's nice and clean with no black spots, indicating they've let something slop out over and burn. Check the little dough hook. Does it look new or does it have a lot of scratches on it? Ask to plug the machine in and make sure it starts. It might beep when it is first plugged in. If you choose "select", then "start", this is how most of them will start off. Don't be surprised if the dough hook spins once, then pauses, then spins again, pauses. It doesn't mean it's working improperly. This is how it begins incorporating the solids with the liquids. After it has done this quite a few times, then it will starting spinning continuously to knead the dough. Most of the bread machines I find have either not been used at all (it was a gift), or it's only been used a few times. I will not buy one that looks like it's been used a lot. EVERYBODY will tell you, "It works great!" whether it does or not. ALWAYS ask to plug it in and try it out.

I also do not buy them if they only make a small loaf of bread. I prefer a 2 pound loaf. But this is a matter of personal preference owing to the fact that I'm raising a grandson who starts standing at the bread machine when the smell of baking bread begins to fill the house.

I use my bread machine(s) a LOT!!! Practically any bread recipe that you find can be made in the bread machine, as long as you don't exceed the amount of grains (flour/oatmeal/cornmeal/etc.) that are allowed into the pan. In my 2-pound loaf machine, this is 4 cups.

One of the kinds of bread I like to make is a marble rye. For that, you need two recipes: one for the dark rye that calls for cocoa, and another for light rye. I use both machines, then, at the same time, on the dough cycle. When they are done, I remove the two lumps of dough, cut each in half and twist a dark with a light. I then put each twisted loaf in a bread pan and bake in the oven.

There are a lot of people who think a bread machine is a waste of money, and I used to be one of them. Afterall, my mother baked her own bread, by hand, every week, and I am no stranger to making bread this way. But I find that it is so convenient to just dump my ingredients into the dough pans and walk off to do something else. Less mess, too.

There are also a lot of people who say if you use a bread machine you have to buy extra gluten to make the dough rise. This is the reason why I waited so long to try a bread machine because I didn't want to have the expense of buying the extra gluten. But this is simply not true. Bread dough in the bread machine rises every bit as well as that you make by hand and sometimes even better, especially if you are a novice at breadmaking. I have never, ever, bought extra gluten. When I make whole-wheat bread, which is notoriously dense regardless of whether you make it in a bread machine or not, I add 1/2 cup of mashed potato flakes or 1/2 cup of leftover mashed potatoes, whichever I have, and I am careful about making sure I have a little higher ratio of liquids to the grain.

In my bread machine, I have made hamburger/hot dog buns, my "famous" featherbed potato rolls, oatmeal breads, rye breads, seven grain breads, cinnamon swirl, raisin, etc., etc. The only bread I do not use the bread machine for is English Muffin bread because the machine makes the texture of the loaf too smooth. In the summer, I let the machine go ahead and bake the loaf. I don't exactly care for the hole in the bottom that happens when you have to take the dough hook out (and you do have to be careful not to scratch it when you remove it), but the bread machine doesn't heat up the kitchen like my oven would. If I'm not air conditioning my house and I'm going to bake the dough in my oven, I usually run both bread machines on the dough cycle so I'll have two loaves to bake instead of one. The dough comes out soft and once you've put them in the bread pans and covered them with a towel, they take hardly any time to rise the second time.

Hope this helps! --Ilene

I have a Cuisinart and I love it. Just another reccomendation beside the Z. And, the Cuisinart was ~$200, so it won't be a cost savings. Just another GREAT brand.

Thanks Ilene, that is really useful info and I really appreciate it. I will take your advise and look for a used one to begin with. My neighborhood is having a community garage sale soon...
Thanks imrainey and gardenwebber. amazon.com is selling "Cuisinart CBK-200 2-Pound Convection Automatic Bread Maker" for $120. What model do you have?
thanks again!

Zojirushi - hands down - after teaching bread machine classes and experiencing a large variety of bread machines.

I've owned 2 Zojirushi bread machines (wore the first one out) and use my Zo once or twice a week and make all our breads, English Muffins, rolls, burger buns, anything associated with yeast and naturally-leavened bread. I never bake in it, but use it for nearly all the bread dough I make.

As imrainey pointed out, it's the bread machine used in the King Arthur Test Kitchens for making dough. They claimed it made dough better than a stand mixer or by hand - and I agree.

King Arthur used to show a side-by-side test in their catalog. One loaf of 100% whole wheat bread made on the dough cycle in the Zo, and the same recipe done in a stand mixer, both baked in a loaf pan. The Zo loaf was at least 1-inch taller than the stand mixer loaf.

It's also one of the few bread machines that has enough 'umph' to make 100% whole wheat bread - which I make with freshly-milled flour. Most bread machines won't do 100% whole wheat bread and most discourage using freshly-milled flour.

-Grainlady

Like ilene, I too see a lot of bread machines at the thrift stores. My husband bought me one for Christmas one time, and I've been using it ever since.

My machine is an inexpensive West Bend model, but it's probably a good 10 years old now. There are two things I don't like about it - the post creates a hole in the bottom of the loaf, and the delay-start timer gave out years ago. Otherwise it makes a nice loaf of bread. Only once have I had a failed loaf in it, and that was probably caused by yeast, not the bread machines.

I don't drive a Cadillac, and I don't own the Cadillacs of kitchen appliances because I don't use any of them often enough to warrant spending a lot of money. So I'm going to totally agree with ilene and tell you to go to a thrift store or yard sale and get your first one there!

DonnaR/CA

donnar- You can get rid of the hole and get much better bread if you use your machine on the "Dough" cycle and then hand shape it and bake it on a stone in your own oven.

If you're ready to try the experiment AND if you like the crust European breads that I do then Rustic European Breads from Your Bread Machine by Linda West Eckhardt and Diana Collingwood Butts will get you started boosting your bread from automatic to artisinal. Be sure to try their adaptation of Peter Reinhart's Struan bread.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rustic European Breads from Your Bread Machine

I'm another big fan of Zojirushi, mine is a real workhorse, does a couple of loaves at a time, dozens of rolls, that 100% whole wheat bread without a hesitation. Dad has a cheaper model, I think a Rival, and it's a piece of carp. I'd also say try the yard sales and GoodWill and second hand places if you're just thinking you "might like" one. If you love it, you can get a good one later.

I only use the dough cycle on mine, I don't like the "steamed" crust I get when baking in it. I make all my bread, I never buy any.

I agree with Ilene, I don't add extra gluten to my breads nor do I buy bread flour or special bread yeast. I like King Arthur flour the best but I'll use Pillsbury or Gold Medal or Robin Hood if I run out because that's what I can buy in my local grocery. Yeast I get in bulk at Sam's Club, two pounds for less than $4. One pound package goes in my refrigerator in a quart canning jar and the other pound goes into my freezer until. I need it.

I've also found that I can use any recipe for bread in the machine, I haven't found a single one that hasn't turned out. Wet ingredients first, then dry, yeast on top, set for dough and turn it on. Grandma's farmtype white bread, Aunt Midge's Cheddar Beer, Terri's honey wheat, the Frisan Bread from the Bernard Clayton bread book Readinglady sent me (I LOVE that book!), Julia Child's French bread, the Italian from Beard on Bread. All do just fine mixed up in the big Zo and then baked in the oven.

My 4 year old granddaughter, Makayla, just made her first loaf this weekend with the bread machine, the sugar and cinnamon scented Frisan bread. When she finished we had hot bread from the oven. Her response? "I NEED one of those". LOL

Yeah, yeah, I have pictures, I'll post them tonight, maybe.

Annie

I never considered looking for a bread machine at thrift shops and yard sales. I want one but I'm just not willing to spend a lot of money when I can use a stand mixer for kneading. Thanks for the tip.

kandm- True, your stand mixer can do the mixing kneading but the bread machine also monitors the autolize and rise in an ideal environment.

I say this as a seasoned breadmaker who uses the stand mixer, my bread machine, a $12 bread whisk and Peter Reinhart's new "epoxy method" that can be done with a fork and value them all.

Check the thrift shops and give one a whirl. But do yourself a favor and look for a 2# machine. Mine can do an 8-cup-of-flour dough even though the manufacturer's instructions clearly say never to put more than 3 cups in.

I have had the Cuisinart CBK-200 for almost 2 years and love it. This is my 3rd bread machine in almost 20 years. I purchased the Cuisinart from our local Kohl's on sale. With the sale price and additional discount I paid around $110.00. I use it to make pizza dough, artisan boule dough, rye and honey white bread, and on and on. It's a good price for a definitely decent machine.

Thanks for the advice imrainey.

CORRECTION:

I think that my Cuisinart was in the $130 range rather than $200. I just looked it up (it was a gift from my Dad) on bread-maker.net and found it there for around that price. Also, I do have to confess, I have not attempted 100% whole wheat yet, but do intend to!

I will post a link to the model I own - then you can compare (saruna) and see if it is the same one you are looking at.

Mrsmarv - I think we have the same model! I love mine too. I do have a question, though - Mrsmarv, perhaps you can answer. What setting do you use that will make "any bread recipe"? I have a choice of 16 different settings, from white, to wheat, to pizza dough, etc etc. So, how would I know which one would fit and just be considered "a dough setting" as annie1992 talked about? Also, Mrsmarv, do you use it to knead and bake, or have you tried taking the dough out and baking it in your oven instead? Have you tried WW bread in the Cuisinart?

Here is a link that might be useful: cuisinart link

I wonder how the no knead, 18 hour rise technique would work with 100% whole wheat bread.

gardenwebber, my Zojirushi has a separate setting that it just calls "dough". It preheats (no getting liquid too hot or too cold), then kneads, lets the dough rest, kneads again and has a temperature controlled rise. Then it beeps that it's done, the bake cycle never comes on at all.

At that point I shape it, let it rise again and bake it.

Annie

I have friends in the Bay Area who do the Lahey bread with whole wheat flour. I think they said it came out fine but didn't rise as much -- makes sense. These are people who are into whole grains so I think they're accustomed to dense loaves.

I'm sorry I couldn't tell you what it was like from a firsthand account. They're half a state away from me in SoCal.

If you want an easy and really flavorful whole wheat loaf you should try Peter Reinhart's new book Whole Grain Breads. His new method involves soaking whole grains to extract the maximum flavor. At the same time you make your preferment and after 24 hours you combine two slack "doughs" kneading in additional flour and you've got dough ready for shaping and rising in minutes. Not only that, you have great flavor.

I combine his method with a variation of Lahey's. I put my risen dough on a stone in the oven and top it with an upside down hot casserole that's preheated with the stone. That way I get the form I want and I get to slash it and control how long it's under its "cloche".

I highly recommend Reinhart's book. It's the latest in a series that returned bread making to America and it just won the James Beard award.

Here's one of mine from his book:

And here's a fuzzy pic of the crumb:

ilene in neok-- could you share the famous featherbed potato roll recipe? In a word, "dense" is why I hate my bread machine, but "featherbed" sounds promising!

gardenwebber ~

"What setting do you use that will make "any bread recipe"?

I'm not sure what you mean by any bread recipe LOL, but for regular oatmeal/toasting bread I use the white setting.

"So, how would I know which one would fit and just be considered "a dough setting" as annie1992 talked about?"

For a standard/regular bread dough (think oatmeal, white, toasting) I use the Dough/Pizza Dough, for a French boule I use the Artisan Dough setting, for pizza dough, I use the Dough/Pizza Dough setting.

"Also, Mrsmarv, do you use it to knead and bake, or have you tried taking the dough out and baking it in your oven instead?"

I have used it for the whole process, kneading and baking, and have also used it just to prepare the dough, then shaping, final rising and baking it in the oven.

Have you tried WW bread in the Cuisinart?"

Yes. The process is longer because the machine "sits" while it's reaching the proper temperature. I use a mixture of whole wheat flour and white whole wheat flour.

>>donnar- You can get rid of the hole and get much better bread if you use your machine on the "Dough" cycle and then hand shape it and bake it on a stone in your own oven.>>

While I'm certain this is true, one of the reasons I use a bread machine (PARTICULARLY in the summer) is to avoid heating up the kitchen by turning on the oven. I can deal with the little hole, it's not that big of a deal. When I have to replace this machine (because it dies), I'll be looking for one that doesn't make a hole.

DonnaR/CA (North Inland San Diego County where it can get hot, just isn't today though)

I have had my 1 lb. Welbilt for over 22 years and it is still going strong. I use it at most once a week for fancy breakfast breads or dinner breads. So it hasn't got a lot of use.

When checking bread machines at thrift stores or garage sales, make sure all the parts are there, like the paddles or hooks, and that it works. I was checking out a large Zojuroshi at my local thrift store and when I plugged it nothing worked, so maybe it ended up there because the motor burned out.
Clare

Annie1992 or anyone else with a Zojirushi :),
I am interested in a Zojirushi bread machine. I like the idea of being able to do 2 loaves at a time. When you say you can do 2 loaves, does that mean you can do enough dough for a 2 pound loaf and then you manually shape (2)one pound loaves and bake in the oven? Or does it actually do 2 loaves? Thanks!

Pam

pfmastin -

Bread machine recipes yield approximately 1-, 1-1/2-, and 2-pounds of dough, and are printed as such in the bread machine cookbooks and recipes. The bread machine only bakes one loaf at a time.

I use the bread machine for making the dough only and I bake the bread in my regular oven or convection/microwave oven. By doing so, I utilize the large 2-pound recipes and divide the dough into more than one loaf. I can get 3 small loaves (under 1-pound of dough each), or 2 regular size loaves from most 2-pound recipes.

I generally make recipes that contain 5-6 cups of flour and well over 2-pounds of dough. With that much dough I make a 1-pound pullman loaf. This makes a crustless, square loaf of sandwich bread (hubby takes sandwiches to work 2-3 days). The remainder of the dough may be used any number of ways - another regular loaf, pecan or cinnamon rolls, dinner rolls, hamburger/sandwich buns, hot dog buns...

The Zo has a flour capacity of 5 cups - this is important to know if you are going to bake in the machine. If you make a recipe with more than 5-6 cups of flour, you will want to use the bread machine for mixing/kneading ONLY. Take the dough out as soon as the kneading in done and put the dough in a dough rising bucket (or bowl) to rise.

You need to scale the dough (weigh it on a kitchen scale), divide it, and scale it again for the proper size pan you want to use. You'll often find a recipe that says it's 2-pounds is 2-pounds 8-ounces.

General guideline for loaf sizes.

Farm Loaves - 10x4-1/2" pan - 4-5 cups flour = 2-3-pounds dough

9x5" (are designed for quick breads) - 4 cups flour = 2-pounds

Standard - 8-1/2x4-1/2" - 3 cups flour - 1-1/2-pound

Medium - 7-1/2x3-1/2" - 2-1/2 cups flour - 1-pound

You can also make consecutive recipes of dough in the bread machine. I do this by making the recipe on the Quick Dough Cycle. As soon as the dough is done kneading, I unplug the machine, remove the dough and put it in a dough rising bucket. I add the ingredients to the bread machine pan for another recipe to the bread machine. On a marathon baking day, I've made 4 consecutive recipes.

-Grainlady

>>donnar- You can get rid of the hole and get much better bread if you use your machine on the "Dough" cycle and then hand shape it and bake it on a stone in your own oven.>>

While I'm certain this is true, one of the reasons I use a bread machine (PARTICULARLY in the summer) is to avoid heating up the kitchen by turning on the oven. I can deal with the little hole, it's not that big of a deal. When I have to replace this machine (because it dies), I'll be looking for one that doesn't make a hole.

DonnaR/CA (North Inland San Diego County where it can get hot, just isn't today though)

Are you removing the paddle before the last rise? I'm also in an area that gets too hot to bake in the summer. I just got a new machine and I take out the dough and remove the paddle before it bakes. Then there is only a tiny hole from the post.

I just saw a major brand name bread maker at Big Lots. Nice SS ones for $65 with all kinds of options. I just can't remember which brand name it was. It will come to me later.
Clare

Just remembered. It was a Cuisinart. Here it is at Amazon.
Clare

Here is a link that might be useful: Cuisinart CBK-200 2-Pound Convection Automatic Bread Maker