"I wouldn't be surprised if grown men do this more than we think"

Yes, I have seen too many men do this!!! Pulled over on the side of the road, road crews, landscapers. I guess it's fairly convenient for them ...

Having raised two daughters, this was not an option for us.
I do remember going behind a bush, in an emergency, or stopping on the side of the road and covering one daughter with a beach towel to avoid an accident. But these were isolated incidents.
I will be curious to see how the mothers' of boys chime in to this discussion.

Yes I think you are over-reacting just a bit. Hopefully this is not common practice for the mother to instruct her child to do this, but I think dirty, disgusting, etc. is a little over board.

I would think that many adult men might get caught in a similar situation.

tina

IMHO, yes, I do think you're overreacting. If the boy looked only 3 to 4 years old, he may only be 3, and may have just become potty trained and just started wearing regular underwear. So it may have been a flash decision of either letting her little boy urinate outside, or having him wet his clothing.

I would give her the benefit of the doubt that she will teach her child that normally, when one can get to a nearby washroom, that's where they go to urinate. I believe any child in a schoolyard would tell the yard duty person that they need to use the washroom, rather than just do it willy nilly outside. (I was asked hundreds of times in my 13 years at an elementary school and never once witnessed a child going outdoors.)

I'm sure his mother must have felt his need was urgent, and she might not have had time to wheel the stroller back to where the bushes were, so she directed him to do it against a tree, to keep him in her sight line.There is no way I would tell my 3 or 4 year old boy to go behind any bushes. Who knows what is lurking behind them? If the boy were older and surely potty trained for some time, it would be a different story, but perhaps you and your DH need to cut her a little slack.

This reminded me of something I saw recently...a car pulled over on the side of the road so the little boy could pee. Both the front and back doors on the passenger side were fully open so he could have privacy, but they forgot to have him stand between the doors. He was behind the back door, fully shielded from view from oncoming traffic, but fully in view of all of us approaching from the same direction. It was pretty funny and I hope he never realized the error.

I have a son and a grandson. Our bushes have been visited by both. Boys get so busy playing hard outside, its just easier to use whats available.

A couple years ago our new neighbor came over to make us aware that her
2 year old son just realized how he could go without going in a diaper. And he wanted to go everywhere. And he did. For a couple of weeks we could see him facing the shrubs. often. His habit didn't last long, no one got sick, all is well on our street.

ML

Two boys here and I can say, been there done that many times when they were little. That kind of thing happens and you can't always find public facilities. We'd always try to find out of the way places for their benefit and others. I would say you're overreacting because if you think that tree is dirty, don't ever touch the actual playground equipment!! The kids bring their little germy hands for starters and animals like chipmunks, raccoon or squirrels climb on them to pick up food crumbs left by those germy little hands and trust me - they pee and poop indiscriminately as do birds. My boys grew up primitive camping with us on our vacation property and pee'd anywhere they pleased - one of the joys of that kind of camping and of being a boy, I say with a bit of envy. But they never translated that to thinking it's appropriate at home, school or anywhere else. I think most parents help their kids see the difference.

If you think human urine is "filthy, disgusting, and unsanitary" you'd better stay away from the Soil and Composting forum because many posters (mostly men) freely urinate on their compost as the nitrogen in it accelerates the composting process. They later use the compost to grow their vegetables. Most human urine is really not very harmful to anything. There actually are sane people who drink their own urine because they believe it to be healthy. Now I find that quite disgusting but to each their own.

I find some people in our society are too overly concerned about certain sanitary practices to the point where it's actually not healthy either physically or emotionally. I think teaching children to wash their hands before eating and immediately on entering their home is the best way to avoid problems because they *will* have touched things which have been 'who knows where'. IMO money is the filthiest thing on the planet and most of us don't think too much about touching that. Most nurses who work Emergency have seen where folding money has been! I see people in cafes all the time pay for food with folding money then eat with their unwashed hands. Now that could be a health hazard.

LOL dlm2000, my daughter and I used to be envious also about the ease with which my 2 sons and DH could 'go' anywhere relatively private when camping.

This caused a bit of an uproar earlier this summer.

Here is a link that might be useful: No!

I think it's overreacting that you are claiming a 3 y/o peeing on a tree amounts to indecent exposure.

A couple of times when our kids were small my husband took them to visit his parents while I stayed home. It was about an 8 hour drive, so he brought the potty chair with him so that our daughter would have a place to "go" by the side of the road.

I vote overreacting. From a health standpoint, it is not likely that this 3-year-old has much in the way of communicable diseases in his urine. From a smell standpoint, at that age, there is only so much his bladder can hold so it is not likely to be too bad. If he were to do it in kindergarten, they would likely talk to him and it would be taken care of.

I definitely agree that the playground equipment is likely much, much worse.

I carried a potty chair in my car when we were training the boys. When on our way home from the cabin, it came in handy. We always point out the spot where we pulled over so our youngest could use it. Having nowhere to hide.

Sometimes, using a tree is the only option. It is way better than having him wet his pants. Urine stings legs. When they are young and have to go, they really have to go.

When a small child has to go, boy or girl, with no restroom nearby, there is no other option. Been there, done that with son, daughter and grands. Your take on it is over the top, and way out of line with the majority, imo.

When a small child has to go, boy or girl, with no restroom nearby, there is no other option. Been there, done that with son, daughter and grands. Your take on it is over the top, and way out of line with the majority, imo.

Yeah, my boys peed outdoors all the time. I remember being at the beach with my friend and her son, and the kids both needed to pee. We were only there for the day, so we had no house to go to, so we told them to go in the ocean. The two of them walked over to the water's edge, about ankle deep in water and let loose. I guess we should have been more specific and said to go in waist deep. They were three years old, so it was kind of funny.

I did always direct my kids to a private spot and never let them pee on a tree at the playground. We often did the two open car door method, too.

I've gone on plenty of long hikes where there was no option but to go off the trail into the trees, drop trou and go.

Overreacting. I'm honestly surprised at your reaction. What would you have done if you were in her shoes? Let's say the kid really had to go (because I imagine that was the case.) The only thing you know about that situation is what you saw. And at least he was instructed to GO OVER to the tree and not do it right there.

We all have opinions but it's not always appropriate to give them. I'm glad you chose not to.

Ummmm....I go out to forests and rural properties where there are no public restrooms for miles and miles and miles. Just today I stopped at a gas station that I knew was the last public stop before I went to my destination, but when I got to the property (a large rural acreage) I was suddenly hit by the need to go. Compounding the issue was that I was with the landowner (older man) and I HAD TO GO RIGHT NOW while we were down at the back end of his property (next to a stream). Fortunately there was a large fir tree that I was able to get to-and I had no choice but to announce to the man what I needed to do-I said I'd had too much coffee and he offered to go to his truck to bring me some napkins, but I told him I was used to being in the forest, so I come prepared. He took it in stride-he IS a farmer after all-and he's got a wife & daughters. Quite a bit different from a small child tho!

When my DS was very small I'd make sure to take him before we went anywhere, or before entering the car. Little brat figured out that sometimes we'd have to stop on the side of the road, so he could pee outside-and for about 6 months he took great joy in making me pull over.

Been there done that with a little girl. At that age when they have to go they have to go or you'll have wet child. It is either their body doesn't give them enough warning or they haven't learned yet to pay attention to the early signs and don't notice until they have no choice but needing to go.

I always make sure my daughter goes before we leave the house, but even with that there is still the need at times. With so few public restrooms around all we can do is try to hide behind a tree at times.

Mine has been potty trained now for 2 years, and just in the last few months have things gotten better as in she has time to hold it until we can make it somewhere, unless just too invovled in playing to notice, which is rarer and rarer now thankfully.

I doubt there will be issues later on, because my guess is the parent will teach that we don't do that other than when there are no bathrooms and there are no options. My daughter already knows this and at the age when she is wanting some privacy when she goes to the bathroom.

This post was edited by lyfia on Fri, Aug 2, 13 at 7:51

Two boys and a girl, and none ever urinated anywhere but a bathroom. We always made sure they went before we got too far away from facilities. I don't think urine or trees are dirty per se but still would not have wanted my kids doing that. We spent almost every afternoon at a park when our kids were little, and I would have taken --- and occasionally did so--- them home before I would have let them urinate "behind a tree." In New York City in the 90s this is something ONLY homeless people did. Whenever I see a young child doing this I can't help but think the outing has been poorly planned.

Oh, for heavens sake! I'm sorry ms-thrifty, but I'm voting for the overreacting :) Maybe it comes from frequent camping trips, lots of days fishing, picking wild berries every season, but I really see nothing wrong with anyone of any age discreetly ducking behind an occasional tree - and I'd rather see a toddler be able to say he had to go and be accommodated than wet himself or be upset. And ocean is fine, pool is not fine.

We took my brothers visiting children berry picking several years ago when my niece was about 10, after a long evening of picking, watching deer, having snacks and drinks, my niece let me know she had to go, was becoming uncomfortable. I said no problem, I have TP in the truck, you can just step behind it. (logging road, nothing within miles but chipmunks and rabbits) She was aghast, said she would wait. Clearly she couldn't wait, I insisted she go and instructed her in an outdoor squat. City kid :) She had never found herself anyplace without a flushing toilet, quickly learned she could accomplish the task. Hand wipes solves her no sink concerns, I carry those too.

I've had to when out horseback riding in the woods. So I don't think it's an outrageous idea and sometimes a necessity. I do think, for a public place, it's not the best of ideas! It's illegal for people to pee or poop in public.

But what's wrong with carrying a urinal, for emergencies. Unless you can't get the kid to someplace private, I think it's kind of strange to tell them to just drop and pee on a tree, for everyone to see in a public park. Even if it is just a child, you're still training them what's right and wrong, what's appropriate. I don't see why they can't at least go discreetly so no one has to know about it.

I guess I will think twice about sitting under a tree from now on! lol Or eating someone's home grown, composted vegetables. (There have been cases of food poisoning from workers using the fields as a bathroom. I find that most unappealing and it is illegal).

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 12:24

I don't pee in my garden, or anywhere else, outside my house. Rest assured my veggies are fine. I can't vouch for the birds, deer or other wild animals that use my property for bathrooms. My garden has really tall fencing but the birds don't care. My quail (we are a habitat) play havoc with my trenches and mounds. I'm still eating my washed produce without concern.

There is nothing wrong with carrying a Urinal but I never thought about doing so. Maybe a new child market is needed?

While visiting DD last summer, I remember GS getting out of the family pool and taking a pee in a side area. I was surprised when DD said it was ok, and this is what he does rather than going in the house or the other extreme, peeing in the pool! I can only hope he doesn't decide to do the same thing at a friend's house or at a public pool when he's older! .Anyway, could the parent be charged with indecent exposure for allowing the child to pee in public? Would it be any different than the seat belt law if your child wasn't buckled up? Just wondering.

Pattycakes, I don't think a three year old's nakedness is considered indecent by any reasonable standard.

What snookums said.

Necessity---yes, unseen in the woods.

Don't want to stop what you're doing to get to a proper bathroom and urinating in a public park or even your own yard? No, lazy and vulgar.

There is a big difference between a public park just a few feet from a public street and sidewalk in a nice residential neighborhood, with people walking by, joggers, dog walkers, bikes, etc. In plain view of everyone, and no attempt to find a bit of privacy.

Also peeing right next to playground equipment. also there were low bushes nearby that would have offered a bit of privacy. And this is a landscaped area not a woodsy one. t

When you are frazzled and your kid does the "I gotta go pee" announcement and you are dealing with potty training issues, believe me... you do not assess the whole landscape for the place least to offend anyone else.... You just have them go and hope they do it in time that you don't have to deal with pee on clothes.

My kid did the "I REALLY REALLY HAVE TO PEE" announcement in between exits/rest stops on the interstate and I had to pull over... I tried to shield him as best I could and learned the hard way not to bend over the top of your easily-distracted son to make sure he is not accidentally peeing on his clothes when he is peeing outside for the first time. Eesh. Having kids - boys especially - is not for the delicate nor faint of heart.

mama carried a pint mason jar...circa 1940-1950...I was the only girl and 3 brothers. I got to go "between the car doors". Since then as a trailrunner and long distance cyclist...there have been times....

Ahhhh yes....childhood potty struggles!

We grew up farming in E. ND.
DM had 2 sons!
Out in the fields for hours on end.
(sometimes didn't even climb down off the big tractors...;-))

Faron

Well, I think the mother should have looked for a discreet, hidden spot. If I had been you, that would have appalled me too.
My dh grew up with a mother who carried a can in the car all the time so her 3 boys could pee when they needed too and it was never in public. Any encouragement of public peeing, even at that most impressionable age- is wrong to me.

On a side note, I have peed in the woods while hiking and I can guarantee no one saw it happening! Just because women squat instead of standing doesn't mean men can think their back is a privacy screen. They need to to go to the same extreme women do.

I agree that type of behavior should not be encouraged. Better to teach something more appropriate. It does carry over into adult life! When they could even get arrested.

I have seen this done too many times by workmen, in highly inappropriate locations. It is infuriating when you see a grown man doing it on your property.

As far as what could end up in our food or system from handling, I'm guessing human pathogens would be worse for us than the naturally occurring animal waste.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 13:33

So a three year old little boy, peeing on a tree elicits adjectives like: Appalling, vulgar, filthy, disgusting, unsanitary, illegal & indecent?

Really?

Yeah, you've got some rebels here, lol. They do grow up.

Apparently without a clear idea of what's appropriate.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 13:05

Snookums, where are you that you are seeing workmen peeing outside 'many times'?

I can't say I've ever seen it.

ML

I'm snickering a little here (NOT to be disrespectful, believe-it-or-no...), mainly because of Maddielee's comment!

I just can't believe some people think most men are "inappropriate", or don't have an idea of same!!!
IMO...this IS a "mountain-out-of-a-molehill" situation.

Faron

Well! I didn't say "most men" (assuming you are referring to me). I have no idea but would hope not! lol

I have seen this three times now while looking outside my window in a residential neighborhood. That is more than enough for me and enough to make me wonder just how often it goes on! They were all different workmen and inexcusable. Other than that, maybe just pulled up along the highway using the door as a screen. Peeing in pools is, sadly, pretty common, I think. Probably the ocean too! lol. Gotta watch what's coming downstream. I don't even like thinking about this.

Was just saying, better to teach more appropriate habits while young.

A quick search of YouTube shows many caught pooping in public are women...ooops

The attached is NOT explicit .
This women was caught at least 3 times .
She is not homeless
not disabled in any way
and not a 3 year old.

This one's for Faron~

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtyzbTA-n8MH18

"This women was caught at least 3 times .
She is not homeless
not disabled in any way
and not a 3 year old."

I did not watch the video-- not my thing--- but I would go out on a limb and guess the woman in question is mentally ill.

(Kellyeng, my description/ reaction to the OP situation would be "lazy parents.")

I only posted the news broadcast.

I guess I should have said that .

Call me a lazy parent. I live rural,where are few bathrooms. Maybe our house is defined by acreage, not by plot. There were times we took advantage. Maybe your opinion is urban ?

Gold dust, the situation described in the OP is not that of a family outing or work party on the back 40 acres, where a picnic or haying or bush hogging would be interrupted and delayed by the tractor ride back to a bathroom. In such a case, on rural acreage (which I live on, btw), it obviously makes sense to find a private spot for nature's calling.

In a public place, a,park, or exposed roadside--- no. As with everything else in the universe, this too is contextual.

Speaking of urban, I can't stand walking along in the city and getting a whiff of urine stench. Subway too. People just pee on a building or the sidewalk. Then there are the public bathroom floors, lol. omg. Maybe using the street to take a leak is more appealing and comfortable.

I bet laziness does play into it in quite a few cases.

Maybe I will head over to the composting forum to check out about all these guys using them as a litter box.

I did not know this sort of thing was so widespread! Will have to ask a golfer, lol.

Overreacting? Yes. THE CHILD WAS 3! Let's keep things in perspective. Of course we want humans to use a proper facility. But sometimes you've just got to take care of business. Maybe the mom didn't plan well, at that point it didn't really matter. The child feeling comfortable is what is most important here.

I agree Kelly!

As far as compost, urine is rich in nitrogen and thus activates the compost or gets the process going. This is very different from the contamination of field vegetables from workers. That comes from fecal matter. If a parent were to allow a child to defecate near a park, that would be a definite concern. I think it would be important to teach a child that if you have to go, and there is no other option, at least do not spray the plants as they can get nitrogen burn.

Vulgar, indecent, illegal (though probably is), don't apply to a child, but filthy, disgusting, unsanitary are not out of range for this, um, unbridled "activity", imo.

Speaking of perspective -- now that we know how acceptable this is, and to mothers of the many, many young children around -- can you imagine just how much of this stuff is around? The multiplier effect is not a pleasant thought. That's why there are laws for dogs. It is filthy, disgusting, unsanitary. And it smells.

At least you asked, ms-thrifty. I agree, to at least hide behind a bush if you must, lol.

P.S. I don't think it's an unreasonable leap to think that where the urge is to defecate, that is probably happening too.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Mon, Aug 5, 13 at 13:33

snookums2...I think you can assume about golfers based on this (hope no one is offended by this sign):

Here is a link that might be useful: golf course sign

Ignorance is bliss. No shoes in the house!

I am washing my fruits and vegetables more carefully now. Didn't really worry about it much before... being a little dirt is good medicine.

Even at my house, I organic garden, but wash everything well. We have several families of Quial who play havoc on my mound irrigation system. We have raccoons. We have deer, Mountain Lions and bears. Insects too. Gotta clean everything. We even have dogs show up, who thing we are a dog park. Their owners have to drag them away.

Our family is a circus. Shoes outside is a dream.