(Sorry, hit post by accident before I was done)

cont'd:

I have heard of people having sections of wood flooring replaced after it was damaged. The drop is about 1/4". Would it be possible to remove just this area of flooring, belt sand the subfloor and reinstall the wood in that area? I should mention that I did use some shims under the row of flooring beyond the dip believing that I might be able to get the floor to drop more gradually, and I have now been told this was not a good thing to do, so I could get those shims up at the same time. Anyway, if this is really not fixable, I will sand just a little and put a rug in front of it to make the difference in height less noticeable, but this is very disappointing in what other wise is turning out to be a very nice looking floor. I can say I am quite proud of how straight and tight the boards look over the remainder of the portion I have completed so far. (trying hard to look at the bright side, with the stone in the pit of stomach). :)

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Sue

Sue,

I am not sure I totally understand the problem. I assume that the floor dips at the point you show and then continues at that lower height for the rest of the room.

If it is essentially two levels with a drop off as you show, then there isn't much you can do. You could remove some of the flooring and attempt to make the difference more gradual by adjusting the subfloor so what you have is an almost imperceivable 'ramp' and not the sudden drop off you show.

There are various ways to shim or 'ramp' an uneven subfloor prior to installing hardwood. I guess that you may already have discovered what those are.

As for the comment to you about the shims not being a good way to adjust a floor as you work is partially true. It is very time consuming but can be successful; I've done it many times.

Since you say that the high spot is from one wall and then 18" into the room, then why not remove that 18", adjust the subflooring in that area and then reinstall you wood? You could pull up the subfloor and replace it with a thinner panel only if that gives you a replaced panel thickness of at least 1/2".

What did you use?,...staples or cleats?

I used 2" cleats. Looking at the floor joists there is no gap between the joists and the decking, and I screwed the sub floor to the decking and joists well before starting. The way it is, there is joist, decking (original, 40-50 yr old, maybe, and I don't know how thick), then 5/8" sub floor. I used 2" coarse drywall screws to remove any squeaks and stiffen up the floor before starting. We knew there was a dip in the floor as it got further away from the supporting steal beam underneath, but neither I nor the GC who looked at it briefly thought it was that severe. I believe I made it worse by drawing the boards together so hard to close any gaps. As a result, the flooring did not follow the slightly more gradual drop in the sub floor. When I saw that there was a gap widening between the hardwood and the subfloor, I tried adding some shims underneath to bridge the gap so it wouldn't loosen up later on. Then I stopped using the shims between the hardwood and the sub floor hoping it had helped the drop to be more gradual, but apparently not, and that was when I assume the big dip occurred.
If I removed the boards in the area (7 1/2' x 18-21") I could try to sand the sub floor so it is even more gradual, like a slight ramp as you mentioned, and then replace the floor and allow some small gaps in the hardwood in that area if necessary, so that it can conform to the dip in sub floor.
Actually, I thought you COULD shim a sub floor to level from below if you replace the current sub floor or add a new layer of sub floor but the GC I had come back and look at it was of the opinion that nothing really could be done other than sanding out the hardwood to make the kind of gradual ramp you mention or removing the hardwood and doing essentially the same thing to the sub floor and then reinstalling the hardwood and letting it follow the curve of the sub floor. I am a little discouraged and would be open to any suggestions you might have regarding other possibilities or which coarse would be better. I guess I am gradually coming to the conclusion that I will not be happy with this and will have to tear some out and redo it. Anything short of that or hints in how to deal with that area when I redo it, if that is I need to do, would be appreciated.

Sue

My original question, I guess, which I had almost forgotten about, is if I can remove flooring in the middle, where the drop is and a couple of rows on each side, sand the subfloor and then reinstall it, or if I have to remove all the flooring I installed after that point, back to where the problem started.

Sue

It looks like to me that you needed to add an extra layer of sub floor (maybe luon) Or going the other direction might have helped. When I usally sand floors I get high spots or dips and I'll take my drum sander and first sand at a 45 degree, then with the grain..Good Luck!... Eric

I would not attempt to sand your subfloor. Before even thinking about fixing this dip, ensure the floor is level everywhere else. Use a 6 foot level.

If you are confident that this is an isolated problem, you can level out the dip using one of two ways. You can purchase a leveling compound sold at home depot in the tile dept. You mix it up and pour it and it will run to the low spots and fill the dip to the height around the dip.

The other way is to use asphalt shingles to level out the dip. Although you are shimming the floor, the asphalt shingles will provide total support to the entire section of the dip and allow you to use one or as many as you need to level the dip out.

Most people use the asphalt shingles instead of the leveling compound. Leveling compound isn't always as easy as it sounds. The shingles will allow you to take your time and readjust if necessary.

Based on your description of the previous damage and the support beam etc, I would have some concern. It would be preferable if the support system was properly inspected.

Are you laying the flooring perpendicular to the direction of the floor joists?

You have a high spot because the steel beam did not settle the same as the rest of the foundation, correct?

I repaired a 3/4" high spot in our kitchen by removing the 3 layers of linoleum, the floor (3/4") and subfloor (3/4") four foot on each side of the high spot and replacing with a single layer of 3/4" OSB subflooring. I places a laminate flooring on top and no more annoying slope.

The high spot came from a previous addition to the kitchen and the original basement wall did not settle like the addition wall.

If you only have a 1/4" to level maybe you can replace the subfloor or decking with a thinner material on top of the steel beam only.

If what you really have is a hump or crown over the steel beam, then what the previous poster is suggesting is good...I've done that on occasion and also just sanded the high spot level with the surrounding floor (you do need a floor edger with 16 grit paper to do that).

Or, take up the flooring and start from scratch...making sure to get the subfloor as flat as you can.

The fact that you used cleats instead of staples will make removal much easier and you may be able to salvage and reinstall much of it.

One other thing...if you decide to remove the flooring on the high side all the way to the starting wall, then use a spline so you can reverse direction and work towards what was your starting wall.

Of course the ideal way would be to replace the subfloor and get it perfectly level. But replacing a subfloor is a major project. I don't believe she is able to do that herself.

OK, why would replacing the subfloor help? That is what I called the GC to see about doing and he said it would not help. I can not do that myself but did call a contractor to inquire. Apparently yes I have a high spot running the length of the house along the steel beam, which has not settled like the floor to one side (the livingroom). The floor to the other side does not appear to be sagging as much, but that is the side that had the fire and I believe the joists were probably replaced. The floor is NOT "perfectly" level beyond that, there appear to be some small dips that are very slight. Using a 4 foot level, not a 6 since I don't have one, I just placed it in about 3 other places and found no noticeable areas where the floor is not flat. Adding another layer of 1/4 in plywood would be fine, but there is no way to make that a smooth transition that I can think of since the new piece would create an even more abrupt change in level. Taking out the subloor along the beam might help but then it would be less than 1/2". It is 5/8" now, and if I reduced that by 1/4 inch, that would only leave 3/8", not enough to nail hardwood to, I don't believe.

I would really rather not take up the first 3 rows that are face nailed, if at all possible. I have those nailed in straight to within 1/8" over a 16 1/2 foot run, including past a 6' opening, and that was a bit of a PIA to get to that point.

I didn't know you could nail hardwood to leveling compound? My problem with filling the "dip" is that it is more of a permanent drop in the level of the floor beyond that point and I would have to increase it across most of the entire floor. There is actually a small "ramp" going up the hall past the bathroom on the opposite side of the steel beam, but that is also where a neighbor said the fire was. I believe the subfloor and probably even the joists were replaced after the fire on that side of the steel beam in 1994, but the joists and probably the subfloor on the livingroom side are original and date to 1960. I don't know what a fire or the process of putting out a fire can do to steel beams and joists.

The house was fully inspected when I purchased it 10 yrs ago, and I still have the 20 page report. The structure was determined to be very sound. I have seen no evidence of movement in the house in the last 10 years, no big cracks or even increasing numbers of small cracks, in ceilings or walls, and what I can see of foundation looks OK. Windows open and close fine, etc.

I guess if the contractor I called doesn't feel it will help, I am a little uncertain about where to go from there. I am sure I can find someone who would do what I ask, but are you sure it will help? Why won't the new sub floor just assume the same position over a short period of time?

Here is a photo of the layout with the flooring direction. The flooring is being laid perpendicular to the joints, parallel to the steel beam. I am trying to install hardwood through the livingroom and kitchen and started along the wall that divides the two. I plan to reverse the boards using a spline to install the kitchen side. At this point, I plant to start the kitchen tomorrow and put this aside until I can figure out the correct thing to do. When the kitchen floor is in, I can at least proceed with my remodel and have the new kitchen installed. In the meantime, I will need to figure this out and thank you all for your help so far and hope you can help me resolve this.

Sue

At this point you could just take up the boards over the steel beam (the high spot) sand down the high spot and then reinstall new boards over the flattened area. You still may have a ramp of sorts, but at least you won't be able to see it easily.

That kind of repair can be complicated...it requires skillfull carpentry to fit in the replacement boards. If you're able to do that well...you could then consider yourself quite a good floor person. You already seem to have a pretty good idea of what you're doing.

Your floor finisher (or you, if you DIY that part) will be able to reduce the existing drop off somewhat. I have flattened floors that way and have gotten acceptable results; it all depends on what final result you'll accept.

OK, more problems with the floor being out of flat now in the kitchen. I want to address this now and NOT tear it out later. There is a 3/8" dip over a 5' span in the subfloor. No gap between the subfloor and the joists that I can see that would allow me to put shims in from below to try to level it. I believe there is simply a small dip in the joists there.
Can I fill the dip with something like asphalt roofing tiles, or since I may not have enough of those in the basement, inexpensive peel and stick vinyl tiles in 2-3 layers in the deepest portion of the dip, then 2 or 1 layer and then none as the dip comes back up again? I could purchase only as many as I needed of the vinyl tiles, and the adhesive might make it more stable. I would then use screws if necessary to fasten them to the subfloor and nail the hardwood right over them and into the sublfloor below, using long boards that span the entire distance? Or I could purchase more asphalt roofing shingles if it would really be preferable for some reason. I am using 2" L cleats and a pneumatic nailer to install the hardwood. Or should I just use the long boards and allow them to conform to the dip in the subfloor and resign myself to having to live with a less than perfect floor in an older home?

Sue

Fill with roofing felt, shingles, vinyl tile...actually anything that will remain stable and that you can fasten through.

Use a straight edge anything to check your filling progress. Then when you have it to your liking, install the floor.