Sol, I would like to know more about the lined linen bread bags! I sew, I have linen - now what sort of fabric do I use for lining the bags? Unbleached 100% cotton muslin? Got that too! So what size do I make? A long one for baguettes and a more rectangle shape for loaves? Should I just make the bag the size of my usual plastic bag i.e. the bags I buy to sell my loaf bread at the farmers" market??? Should I make homemade bread bags to sell at the farmers' market? If I don't have the time to make them myself, do ya think I should start up a little sweatshop in my basement? Might have to wait for spring to do that - it's cold down there right now.

Yes, I'm joking - but I'm serious about making myself some bread storage bags. More info, please, Miz Sol?

Teresa

Here the old tried and true method of keeping bread fresh is similar to what Sol does.
The Spanish have used heavy cotton bread bags for generations which, when people had time to do such things, were embroidered with the word "Pan" just so you knew what it was for.

When I lived in Mallorca the daily bread was a round rustic loaf of unsalted country bread which was wrapped in a large teacloth and kept in the cotton bread bag.

As the bread was firm to begin with it stayed that way but lasted with the same texture until the last piece was cut.

Sometimes the bread bag was hung outside on the doorknob of the house early in the morning so the baker could drop the daily bread rolls or round loaf into the bag as he was passing by.

SharonCb

Dcarch,I think I may remember a way that I've heard of and it could be dangerous so may be the way you are speaking of.

Bake the bread, wait for it to cool, slice, freeze the leftovers. When ready to heat up frozen bread, remove from freezer, thaw in something airtight. When thawed, place bread into a brown paper bag and fold up the opening. Place in a 350 oven just long enough to get warm.

Now I'm not sure about this so if anyone is leary of placing a paper bag into the oven do not try it.

Beverly

Beverly, back when I made a lot of bread, I used that method. And it works very well.
I had completely forgotten it, thanks for the reminder.

As for a paper bag in the oven, I have a friend who roasts her turkey in a paper bag for Thankgiving and Christmas.
Delicious, and never a fire yet.

But I'm not sure I would be comfortable using a paper bag from the grocery store now, even if I could get one that way.

Who knows what might be recycled into it.
So it would have to be bags made specifically for food service.

Rusty

With all this suspense it better be something way more dangerous than a paper bag in the oven. I want volatile chemicals and radioactive material!

"Posted by foodonastump -----
With all this suspense it better be something way more dangerous than a paper bag in the oven. I want volatile chemicals and radioactive material! "

LOL

dcarch

Rusty, I hope you weren't referring to me.
I can't speak for my CF brigade (and they don't need me to speak for them anyway) but I am curious in DC's venture. I'm just one of those people who could be on fire, and still manage my composure, even if I'm screaming like a Banshee on the inside. I'm a poker face type, in any/all situations. And it still flusters the hell out of those who know me.

Teresa, I'll take a picture of one of the bags, and post it. I know you're a sewing pro, so this is something you'll be able to whip up in your sleep.

All I use is linen for the inner and outer layer, and sew the whole thing together with a french seam. Adding a drawstring at the top. Although, I'm planning on making another one with a flap, instead of a drawstring. But, they're so easy to make.

I think a lined cotton bag would be just as effective though. And as far as shapes, I have (mostly) made rectangular bags, a little larger than those made for wine bottles, with a drawstring at the top. Although I once made a larger square bag to accommodate round loaves, but I find I don't use it as often.

Next time I make another bag, I'm going to use Sharon's idea, and embroider "Pan" on them. Cute.

Sol

" Posted by therustyone ------- Seems like there are quite a few people posting here just to let you know they aren't reading your post, ----------------- "
More and more I am trying to get use to the interesting personalities here in this forum.

"Personally, I do understand your excitement about coming up with a new idea, and wanting to share that excitement. So I do hope you will let us know when you perfect your idea. "
I thought the title of my post explains my intentions. DidnÂt turn out that way for a few people.

"I either refrigerate homemade bread, or freeze for longer term storage. Neither actually preserve that fresh made flavor or aroma. "
ThatÂs what motivated me in wanting a better way, and in wanting to find out from everyone here if anyone knew of a better way.

"Good luck with your project! "
Thanks. As I said, it may not turn out to work the way I think it can. Will see.

dcarch

Could you not use a linen tea towel? Or...just a cotton tea towel. Seems I have accumulated a good many over the years. Without sewing for a drawstring couldn't you just gather the top and use twine to tie it. I'm just thinking quick and easy.

jude

Ok so here's a question - Why does homemade bread go stale so much quicker than supermarket bread? I have half a loaf of Arnold's Country White on my counter that I probably bought a week and a half ago, it has a "fresh through" date of 1/10, and it's still perfectly edible. It's labeled "No artificial perservatives" and the ingredient list is:

Unbleached Enriched Wheat Flour [Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Reduced Iron, Niacin, Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Folic Acid], Water, Sugar, Yeast, Soybean Oil, Salt, Cultured Dextrose and Maltodextrin, Mono- and Diglycerides, Calcium Sulfate, Citric Acid, Grain Vinegar, Soy Lecithin, Datem, Wheat Gluten, Whey, Nonfat Milk

Of course I have no idea what half of that stuff is. What's the preservative? Is it bad for you? Is it obtainable for home use?

No, Sol, wasn't referring to you.

But so far I haven't been able to get used to the 'interesting personalities' mentioned by dcarch.
One reason why I have never posted much.
May just go back to that, safer that way.

Rusty

rusty, not sure who you may be referring to, but it's important to keep the numbers in perspective. By that I mean how many posters here fall into the category of "interesting personalities" vs the total number of posters? Not sure why we all have to endure the angst of a few.

I just wish those who have issues with each other would leave them at the back door. Most of us just don't care about anything other than good food and sharing a common interest with interesting folk...truly interesting folk.

I made sourdough bread and it tends to last much longer than regular yeast bread. I even keep my bread in a plastic bag, no problems at all. Stale bread doesn't exist in our house because we eat a loaf so quickly that I can hardly keep up. If I want something 100% fresh I do the Artisan Bread in Five Min a Day method. Al

I don't have any 'issues' with anyone here, or anywhere else, for that matter.
I am interested in good food, ways to prepare it, ways to present it, and ways to preserve it.
I find all personalities interesting in one way or another.
Some more so than others.
And that is not meant in any particular way.
Just that everyone is unique, and I don't always understand everyone's own brand of 'uniqueness'.

Rusty

Thanks, Sol! I have so many kitchen linen/cotton towels that I think I'll make the first one out of one of those. I've also collected cutter table cloths - linen table cloths that have bad stains and worn holes. I cut them up and made ring bearer pillows and napkins. Old linen is so soft - a pleasure to use.

Teresa - what a great idea! I have a couple of old linen table cloths that are what you would call "cutters" also - I've made napkins, but making the bread bags is a fantastic idea!

I just mixed up my first batch of Artisan Five minute and am looking forward to having the first loaves in the next few days. That said, we can go days without eating a crumb of bread in my house, so I am hesitant to mix up too much at once. We'll see how this goes.

Alexa

My Alsatian grandmother's method was to use the dough to make rolls and give most of them away. She made bread dough every evening and kept it in the fridge overnight. The following day she would make cloverleaf rolls in muffin pans, along with a loaf of bread, and she made small loaves. She also used potato water (from boiling potatoes) instead of plain water for the bread. She never used milk in her bread. Delivering pans of unbaked rolls was one of her ways of keeping in touch with everyone in the neighborhood, whether they liked it or not. She was a bit of a busybody and nosed her way into everyone's business. If you wanted gossip, however, she was the best place to go.

I'll have to try the cloth bags. I think I'll use cotton instead of linen, although I have both. been using linen for polishing furniture.

Lars

"Is there a way to have fresh crispy bread all the time?"

Sure there is. If you are using breads such as hard rolls or baguette, just reheat them in the oven for about 4 to 5 minutes to crisp them up. NBD.

I just wanted to add that the cotton bread bags are sold here in most tablecloth and dry goods shops because they also make good gifts for tourists to take home, often with "Tenerife" also embroidered on them. They have a drawstring closure across the top so they can be hung up in the kitchen.

I have also used them in years gone by when I had a baker stop by every morning to deliver a crusty roll. Here I still see bread rolls and baguettes hanging on peoples doorknobs in the morning. Sometimes they're in plastic bags, sometimes in the cotton bread bag.

Here are some web photos from commercial sites which sell them.

Bread bag 1

Bread bag 2

Bread bag 3

Here's the website description of the above image of an unbleached cotton baguette bag which measures approx. 24 x 10 inches.

In Mallorca, bread that was put in these bags for storage over a few days was always wrapped in a tea towel first.
And it was a rustic, firm and crusty bread, not the soft supermarket kind.

SharonCb

Thanks for the idea on the bread bag, Sol, I could hang it on the front door and save counter space.

Somehow, I think that with all the centuries that people have been making and baking bread, before plastic bags, before bread boxes, before cooking forums, if there was a perfect way to keep bread freshly baked bread fresh for a longer period of time, someone has already done it.

Annie

"Posted by annie1992 ------Somehow, I think that with all the centuries that people have been making and baking bread, before plastic bags, before bread boxes, before cooking forums, if there was a perfect way to keep bread freshly baked bread fresh for a longer period of time, someone has already done it. Annie"

Exactly. I don't have as much bread experience as many of you have. That's why I ask the question before I spend my energy on the idea.

dcarch

OK, so why didn't you just say "this is what I'm thinking, has anyone tried it?" instead of "I'm working on something and I'm not going to tell you because you might accuse me of stealing your idea".

No matter how well or poorly it works, if it's been done before someone is going to say it was their idea and they've been doing it or sharing it or learned it somewhere and if you were going to "get accused of stealing someone's idea" what is the difference between getting "accused" now or later?

You've completely lost me with that "logic" or train of thought or whatever it is you're thinking.

Annie

According to Kevin (and the books on bread baking that he has read), the freshness of bread decreases exponentially as soon as it is baked. One thing I think you can do is divide the dough and only bake portions of it at a time. I keep bread dough in the fridge for two days, and it still bakes fine. If you want fresh bread, you have to bake it - it will never again be the same as when it was freshly baked. Store the dough - not the bread. I store it after the first rise.

Lars

Annie,

I think you have way overestimated my cleverness. I am not as smart as you imagine to be of having all these unspeakable scheming motives.

I only want to be humble enough to check with everyone first before I offer some stupid half-bake :-) idea to the group which may or may not be worthwhile.

But I appreciate your opinion, furthermore, I appologize to you for my paucity of linguistic acumen and exactitude to depict my ill-conceived desire to contribute to this forum.

dcarch

dcarch, I never said you had scheming motives, I only said that I didn't see the difference between being accused now or being accused later.

Nor did I say you lacked the ability to communicate in your contributions to the forum, I just said that I didn't understand your logic in this particular instance. I still don't.

You have mentioned more than once that you feel you get criticized but if you communicate your intentions clearly and logically, you'll get more logical responses.

Annie

Understood.

I shall now retract my characterization of those comments as criticisms, rather, they should perhaps be perceived as "robust observations"

And thank you again.

Regards.

dcarch

Teresa, I think I gave everyone at Panney Camp a linen bread bag. I know I gave at least one to one of the campers. This sounds like a good product for you to add to your line. While in NC, I went to the Tuesday flea market in Murphy. I thought of you when I purchased an almond coffee cake ($5) from one baker and a loaf of artisan bread from another ($4). I have been wanting to share those prices with you.

Thanks, Cathy! I'm thinking about adding what I call "tea" breads to the market roster in the spring. Things like Lemon Loaf, Applesauce Bread, Blueberry Lemon Bread, Date Nut Bread, etc. Yes, I've enjoyed using my bread bag from Panney Camp, just want to try something a little different too.

Teresa

Cathy, I use my Paney Camp bag all the time! It's a linen bag with a plastic "sleeve" inside of the linen! LOVE IT! I think of you everytime I use it :-). Lovin my apron too! Thanks Lee and Charlotte!

I try to make it to the local bakery, at least once a week, for fresh homemade bread. I'm still dough challenged even after attending the most awesome bread camp that has ever happened.

I was thinking about the bag from you also Cathy. I love it because of the plastic lining and because it's cute. In our dry climate bread has to be kept in plastic or it becomes a rock in a very short time.

I also use the brown bag method - sprinkle a little water (necessary here) on the bread, put it in a brown bag and heat for a few minutes in the oven to refresh the crust.

lee

Oh my gosh, I thought maybe you had intended to patent this possible "new idea" but since this is a place where most of us share, why don't you go ahead, "offer some stupid half-bake :-) idea" NOW. I'm sure we'd all like to hear it.

I'd also like to say that it's nice to hear all the other ideas above that this wonderful group is sharing. For free.

Where is that *why do you keep beating this dead horse* gif? LOL

Yes. A "Provisional Patent" had been applied for, even this is not much of an idea.

I have said this idea will be shared soon once I am satisfied with all the safety and practicality issues.

dcarch

Have to agree with the others that say, make smaller amounts of dough and store that rather than baking loaves and try to keep bread fresh. We bake weekly and I have to say our day old bread still tastes better then anything store bought. The taste is just as good the next day. So storing baked bread isn't really a problem for our family. It goes so fast as it is. Sandwiches, regular toast, french toast, appetizers, bread crumbs, etc. It all gets used up. NancyLouise

"Posted by nancylouise -----
Have to agree with the others that say, make smaller amounts of dough and store that rather than baking loaves and try to keep bread fresh. We bake weekly and I have to say our day old bread still tastes better then anything store bought. The taste is just as good the next day. So storing baked bread isn't really a problem for our family. It goes so fast as it is. Sandwiches, regular toast, french toast, appetizers, bread crumbs, etc. It all gets used up. NancyLouise "

Let me also express my sincere appreciation for all of you who have offered your suggestions and your methods with such positive attitude. Many will be motivated to share and exchange new ideas and experiences by you.

dcarch

You're welcome Annie and Teresa!

Teresa, I forgot I already had a picture of one of my bags posted on my blog, so I'll add it here. As I mentioned, the linen bags I made, were self-lined, to keep crusty breads fresher, longer.

This one was made, using an antique linen table runner, which had some damage to it, and not the kind of thing I'd want to display. So, I didn't feel guilty taking scissors to it, and making two bread bags out of it. I think this one was either 25" or 28" in length.

And I agree with you, old linen towels are wonderfully soft. But I can't bring myself to cut up the ones I've collected, because they're still in very good condition, and I use them daily. Plus, they're far better and more absorbent than new kitchen towels.

In any case, I was thinking of adding a tutorial on bread bags to my blog, soon. When I do, I'll email you, instead of posting it here. It was not my intention to steal Dcarch's thunder.

My apologies Dcarch, for hijacking your thread. Btw, I wish you much success with your experiment. Good luck with it.

Sol

Sol,

Not at all. It was me who asked everyone to educate me all other ways to keep bread fresh. Thanks for posting your idea.

I should be done and post my idea soon.

dcarch

Many people have ideas of what "stale" bread really is. To some bread becomes stale when it dries out, to others it's a change in texture apart from dryness and to yet others it's not stale until there is mold present.
For a lot of years people have been attempting to define "stale bread" because the prevention of such is of great economic importance. The best guess so far as to what causes that property defined by some as "staleness" is the retrogradation of amylopectins, a change in structure of the starch molecule. The baking industry has found many compounds to add to bread which will retard that action.
further study has determined that amylopectin retrogradation occurs most rapidly at temperatures found in the refrigerator, and can be reversed by heating the baked goods.
So if you have discovered a chemical that is new to others you stand to make millions, and if you have invented a mechanical process that keeps bread from going stale, I don't think it's possible.
At any rate I have no idea what all the secrecy is about. If I have an idea about something, I come right out and say "hey guys! Do you think....?" or "Anyone ever try...."
But I suppose you have your own reasons for trying to be enigmatic....
Linda C

Here is a link that might be useful: mechanisms of bread staling

I like stale bread....I use it for bread crumbs, bread cubes, for feeding the ducks at the lagoon.....
I even made bread pudding once.

I've read the thread with interest and am grateful for all the idea. Theresa, if you ever decide to go on the www or just national, I'd love to buy a breadbag from old linen from you. email me.

Foodonastump, bakery bread may have "No artificial preservatives" The keyword there is ARTIFICIAL. Most bread is grain, yeast, salt and or sugar to aid fermentation and liquid. That's it!!! All the other stuff you add enhances your dough or adds to the flavor or does something. In my pantry I have lecithin (Helps keep bread fresher longer & works with the gluten to make a lighter bread. It also helps make the bread moister and acts as a mild preservative)and wheat gluten( just for texture) and ascorbic acid (citric acid - acts as a preservative & deters
mold and bacterial growth). So you see, if I add these my bread stays fresh longer BUT doesn't necessarily have that just baked flavor or aroma. Sulfates are also preservatives. So all these are NATURAL preservatives - see nothing artificial about any of them ;-)

Angelaid were you looking for this?

I saved that. Have a feeling I'll be using it a lot!

LOL

Dcarch:
I read most of the Threads and almost afraid to comment.

I don't use much bread now , so I buy a loaf of Arnold's Wheat Bread for sandwhiches.
And some Italian rolls for Hoagies,( Subs, Heroe's )
Keep them in the freezer, no problem, Just heat and eat.

Don't usually have bread go stale. If it does, I cut it up into 1/2 inch cubes and
pile it into a large SS Pan.

It is kept in the oven till dry. Every so often I'll turn the oven on for a minute.
A couple of times I forgot to turn the oven off, so now I don't leave it, to do other things.

Blackened Bread cubes don't make good Stuffing.

If I need Crumbs, the cubes go into a gallon Zip Lock bag
and I do the rolling pin thing.

Way back when, everyone had Steamer Pans with a lid.
There was a wire basket inside, for Bread, Bunns and Rolls.

We had a small metal oven that was placed over a Gas Range burner. It was used to reheat the bread.
Didn't have any problem with that method

That was when you couldn't afford to waste anything.

Seems like many of you are impatient. Have another drink on me and relax.

Chase:
I've read your thread a few times and wondered the same thing myself.
LOU

"Posted by hawk307 Dcarch:
I read most of the Threads and almost afraid to comment. ------"

You are sounding like Larry Page, who is so sick of ChinaÂs censorship that he is pulling Google out of China.
Lou, you are so handy, I really would like you to try this method out to confirm my enthusiasm that it actually works like I said.

dcarch

dcarch:
I would like to to help but I don't want to get into any debates.
Don't think my advise is appreciated, anyway.
I'm the CF Villian , doncha no !!!

Getting a little busy now with The VA.
Doing a little running, trying to raise more money, to send Packages to the troops.
Thanks for the offer. Lou

" Posted by hawk307 ---
dcarch:
I would like to to help but I don't want to get into any debates.
Don't think my advise is appreciated, anyway.
I'm the CF Villian , doncha no !!!
Getting a little busy now with The VA.
Doing a little running, trying to raise more money, to send Packages to the troops.-----"

As I said, Lou, you have a great sense of humor.
Here you are packaging for the troops who are giving up their lives for freedom and freedom of speech worldwide, and you are telling me that the wonderful and kind folks here are trying to censored you?

You are so funny!

dcarch

dcarch:
I didn't say it.
Maybe it is my wild imagination but it seems like certain members can say anything they please.

If you speak up and try to defend some one, or try to
correct a situation or misunderstanding.
you will get it from all angles.

This has been going on since my first Post.

But that's OK , I can take a beating.
The thing that hurt the most was the fact that it turned some of the friends I've made on the CF against me.

Best part, I was right on most of the things I posted.

And have had many emails correlating my feelings but I am not at liberty to divulge any names.

Most members who have stated their feelings to me, would rather not speak up.
so as not to make waves and rock the boat , so to speak.
I certainly don't blame them.

The only thing I've ever tried to do here, is put in some helpful advice that I have learned and
instill some Common Sense in cooking.

In the meantime , have some fun doing it.

Didn't realise I did so many bad things to so many.

I have cared for and lost many loved ones in the past few years, In fact 15 years.
Seems like I should have used more of my time towards helping others, who appreciated.

But I probably will go on being a dummy.
Happy New Year everyone !!!
Lou

Well Lou, I think you are crazy. That's why some here treat you that way.

I think I am crazy too. In the days to come, there will be more crazy ideas coming from me that will invite some more interesting reactions here, I am sure. :-)

Hang in there.

dcarch

This is one of the most polite internet forums in existence. If you don't believe me you have not had much experience with other forums. Unfortunately the internet has turned into an anonymous place where anything can be said, much of it vulgar, political, racist and downright stupid. It is like driving in a big city and somebody cuts you off and you give them the bird. If you sat down with that person over a cup of coffee and exchanged ideas you would probably at least like them, if not become best friends. But the 'anonymousness' of driving and internet makes a-holes out of a lot of people who normally would not be as such.

Dcarch- yes you are crazy. Lou- yes you are crazy as a loon too. Myself, I'm as nutty as a (pick your own analolgy here). Bottom line, let's just have fun and keep everything in perspective. If you get down to it this is a community and the entire aspect of the forum is to disseminate and share information, enjoy each others contributions and also to consider it as a form of entertainment. I know I do. Carry on people, carry on.

I rarely eat bread. Every now and again.....so no commentary from me on processes to keep bread fresh.

Duane

I do beleive this thread is half baked.

Now stick a fork in it boys and call it done.

"Posted by dukerdawg -----------
Dcarch- yes you are crazy. Lou- yes you are crazy as a loon too. Myself, I'm as nutty as a (pick your own analolgy here). Bottom line, let's just have fun and keep everything in perspective. If you get down to it this is a community and the entire aspect of the forum is to disseminate and share information, enjoy each others contributions and also to consider it as a form of entertainment. I know I do. Carry on people, carry on. ---"
Duane,
You are one of the few here who are familiar with my posting habits in other forums for many years. I have been only interested in contributing new ideas and having enjoyable interactions with others. This has been an eye opener for me.
Enough.
Yes, carry on and back to more crazy cooking. :-)

dcarch