"I don't know what rain does except taking the place of watering."

That's back to front. Watering takes the place of rain. I rarely need to water but when I do I notice it is far less effective than natural rainfall.

Radishes need to grow fast and moist. If they stall and don't get lots of water they become hot and tough. So lots of water would reduce their heat. Are these radishes from your own garden or bought? If your own maybe you need to adjust the irrigation. It doesn't need to be on if it's been raining. No way of knowing what's happening with your horseradish since it sounds like a commercial product. The difference could be in the source roots or in the recipe and preparation.

I'm sorry, folks. I was trying to explain why I didn't know anything as to why there's no hot or pungent flavor. I'm not actually trying to grow these things! Just to understand them.

Ricky, I appreciate your expertise, but what's the answer to the missing flavor?

Floral, I live in swampy desert. Rain of any consequence is rare, though we get occasional seasons of gullywashers, like this year. Watering is normal. The clocks have rain sensors. Yes, there's chlorine in the water, but less than in the past. The plants do grow. And nitrogren does get applied.

Right where I live, the land isn't suitable for native scrub without serious changing of the soil and drainage. (I don't think much grew here when it was wild.) The radishes are local, though farm grown, The horseradish is commercial. The company I use is Midwestern, and I assume they get fairly local crops, but I don't know. The blandest was made up by a caterer, using locally grown. There was one granule of horseradish flavor in the latter, in about five tablespoons (quenelles) eaten over three days.

The flavor question is the same answer. The crops you buy, even at a 100% organic farmer's market, are grown with a combination of rain water and irrigation. More rain equals more flavor. More irrigation means pretty crops but less flavor.

Thanks, Ricky. So you're saying the missing flavor isn't because of the excess rain.

I don't see mention of where these radishes and horseradish are coming from? Grocery store? Farmers' market? Are you sure the radishes aren't meant to be mild? Some varieties can be milder than others.

All other variables need to be unchanged for a true comparison.

Understood, but I like radishes, and eat them. There's a particularly radishy taste that's always there which was missing, but present in the sprouts. All were the Western version of local. Some organic, others I don't know. Plus the horseradish and sriracha. Perhaps there's no unifying issue, but all at once lacking heat/flavor, suggests a common factor, but they could be all unrelated.

It could be the varieties. Perhaps there are some you prefer over others. Why not try growing some different ones? It's what kids start gowing because they're so easy LOL.

Huy Fong siracha is different because the peppers are different. They used to use an exclusive farmer, but they broke up. Since the Huy Fong has been sourcing from multiple farmers. The exclusive farmer went on to make Dragon Sauce.

I think the radish flavor is probably a mix of variety, water (including source), soil, fertilizer and temperature. Mind you I live in a decidedly chilly climate. Not particularly helpful. Radishes are usually a quick easy crop but if one of the elements is off I get wonky radishes. Split, tough, tiny, huge huge, super hot or tasteless.

BTW radish sprouts and microgreens are really really easy and I agree have that radish zip.

Beesneeds, I knew about the farm fracas, but It didn't occur to me that they wouldn't be able to duplicate the heat. Other makers, of products from hot sauce to orange juice, adjust heat, sweetness, acidity, etc, That makes sense, though, that the different sources of peooers were the issue. Maybe that's why they kind of snuck back on the market. I hope they can fix it next year!

Agmss, thanks for the specifics on radish growing. I've never tried, myself. It sounds like the rain might have been the culprit after all. I just figured if the sprouts, which are newly planted, and I think, in a shed, tasted right, it wasn't likely the seeds though of course there's the variety isdue.

Yesterday, I did a condiment parade for an otherwise bland lunch, including an old bottle of horseradish sauce that had been insouciently lingering.in the fridge. There was the horseradish flavor I'd been missing at Passover!

"I did a condiment parade for an otherwise bland lunch"

I just passed a mouthful of water through my nose. "A condiment parade?" OMG!

Maybe the change of temperature when raining has to do with the heat in the veggies. I know that chili peppers get hotter when the temp is hotter. I make my own 'sauce' and every year it tastes diffferent.

I didn't know that, Kate! It certainly wasn't hot with all that rain!

So sorry Ricky! Great picture.

Fawnridge I didn't know this about the Nitrogen in rain! I've always thought that there was a bit of a boost after a good rain (which we get very little of from April to October)

Sorry pillog, but Huy Fong likely won't be able to replicate it again. The terroir of Underwood Farms and how they grow their peppers is their own. You might want to try the Dragon Sauce for the more original siracha taste.

Okay. Too bad. No way I'm spending that much on a condiment. The main thing about Huy Fong is that it doesn't drip. Talking about spiting one's face! But the current stuff tastes fine. It just needs more heat.

Hm.... Was served a salad with too much frisee. The massively bitter white carpet underlayment kind. It wasn't bitter. I always thought others saying it wasn't bitter was a genetic thing, where they just didn't have the gene to taste the bitterness, but this had a flavor like any lettuce. Y'think it was the rain?

Those of use that garden food crops...agmss, annie, etc, have lots of experience with different crops and their needs. Always something fails every year but we don't care. Something else will thrive. This year is too much rain but garden tricks can twart that. Raised beds, good drainage, Cover freshly planted seed with boards, yada. Row covers, shade cloth if too hot...

NorthEast, MidWest climates can be chalenging with cold, then very hot temps.

All flavor is due to excess rain here. Rarely drought. Also depends on when this happens in the growing season. All crops have different needs and added food requirements.

Last years failures was carrots and radish. After 20 years of no issues. (wet feet). Carrots planted too dense using some old seed and some fresh...6 varieties.

Corking in habaneros is almost always too much moisture at the wrong time...just near harvest. Commercial growers want perfect fruit. Grow varieties that give them the best perfect product. Flavor not that important. Perfect fruit gets top dollar.

The little mini red and yellow peppers in pound bags i see all over in markets that past 4-5 years or more, have no flavor. Ok for stuffing if you want that.

Most consumers want 'pretty'. And cute.

Growers are always looking for the next-best-thing.

Your frisee is best from the sweet inner core,...the pale frilly leaves. A good chef might blanch the outer green leaves and add to a soup, etc. No waste.

Planted close togeter you will get more core inner sweet leaves. Some farms want volume/pretty, not quality.

Tomatoes, mid-late july, we scoot to the garden and pick anything blush when a big two day soogy storm is in thw\e forcast. Otherwise they will split. A garden dance not that complicated with experience.

FWIW, the mini sweets in bags I buy are full of flavor - and super sweet. Perhaps because they're organic? They go great in a salad with bitter greens like endive and chicory.

Fast growth/early harvest in cool temps usually yields sweeter greens, hot weather and later harvest will be more bitter, IMPE.

And snow provides nitrogen too - I think all precipitation does...?

Yes, snow, and other precipitation all has nitrogen in it. However, snow has less nitrogen in it than rain. This is because there is less electrical charge with snow. It's the electrical that gives precipitation it's nitrogen. So summer thunderstorms with more lightning has more nitrogen than winter snows. Lightning itself zaps nitrogen into the ground when it strikes too.

We had lightning in the Summer in July 1990-ish... (definitely July, iffy on the exact year). :D

Agreed with Carol on the mini-peppers, They're very tasty, often moreso than full sized bells, which have so much more water in them. Another indication of how different produce is in different places.

I have NEVER had sweet frisee, so maybe it is my genes. The bits I had yesterday were normal lettuce bitter, rather than nasty don't eat that bitter. Spinach is sweet. Lettuce, no. Even iceberg has that slightly bitter lettuce flavor and iceberg is generally describable as crunchy water. Endive is bitter, and challenging, but edible with something nice to offset it, unlike frisee, even the smaller ones, though I don't know if those are truely the hearts. I would never choose frisee as edible on my own, and usually, when so served, try a bite to be polite, choke it down, and leave the rest on my plate.

They just said on the news that Huy Fong are ceasing production until September because the weather in Mexico, where their new growers are, has prevented the peppers from reddening. I'm guessing there's a flavor thing in there as well. :)

We are sensitive to sweet, but also like bitter with a balanced dressing/quick pickles or added vegetable less bitter like fennel or thin sliced apple.

I should try the baby peppers again. 6-7 years ago, BC (BeforeCovid), i purchased a 2 pound bag from Costco. A couple times. I'm betting better varieties are available now. I'm seeing in a search a dozen varieties from different farms. Field grown from florida and controled massive greenhouse grown all over the northern states and Canada.

Unfortunately peppers have hit the roof in price. 8-10$ a pound. I almost put a new one to me in my cart last month...

The suntan bells but passed ordering.

The larger red and yellow bell peppers have always been sweeter here. A bigger bang for your buck.

I've said a 100 + times here...food is expensive. Even now more than ever. Shop smart and use what is available during the seasons. Fresh corn locally at the end of July...yada.

Even a small kitcen freezer can hold good locally grown food. Don't purchase what you don't like. My local farm box is a mistery box. Get-what-you-get. But at 50 cents a pound is a great deal. Beautiful produce...

Hmm, a pkg of 2 organic ripe bell peppers are $3.46 @ Walmart here, and bag of organic mini sweets are on sale for $2.97

Just listened to the latest Decoder Ring podcast from Slate and thought of this thread. It's about how and why commercially grown jalapeños lost their heat...

https://slate.com/podcasts/decoder-ring/2024/05/why-hot-jalapeno-peppers-arent-as-spicy-as-they-used-to-be

Carol, that makes sense. Certainly the jalapeños of my youth seemed a lot stronger than the ones today that they put whole all over everything nowadays. The boys I knew in Mexico in my youth used to challenge each other to eat raw peppers. They certainly weren't slicing them whole into a single tacos or sandwiches.

It's funny, because green jalapeños are not one of my faves, and that's all you can ever find in stores here. They seem to have no particular flavor when green. I've grown them, and let them ripen to red before harvesting - they would get the corked lines and everything and were pretty dang hot - and also much sweeter and flavorful.

I haven't tried any grocery stores chiles for quite some time now. I do use a lot of ground chipotle - ripe smoked jalapeños, which has much more flavor.

I'm not a super hot aficionado, but I do like some heat, so learning about the TAM peppers piqued my interest - esp. if they're more pest and disease resistant.

I usually have a couple varieties in my crisper. Our market has a half dozen+ at all times. The jalapenos i have now have some heat but not my favorite for flavor. The habaneros have great flavor but a bit too much heat for me. Some of the fresh salsas i've been making DH loves but i usually have to make a mild one as well. Especially when we have guests.

That is odd about HuyFong. Dozens of other brands available. I stopped purchasing about 8-10 years ago. I kept in on hand because i thought DH liked it. He used it because it was there. I used it in place of ketchup that we never use or stock. We both found it too sweet. Then we found YellowBird. It has become the #1 hot sauce at WholeFoods for a few years. When my fermented homemade runs out around the NewYear, i order a couple bottles that we use all summer until my harvest in Aug-Sept. Re-peat until now. I ordered over two months ago and still unavailable. Bummer. Did some sluthing and now see they have changed their label and ingredients. Usually that means they sold out but don't see that yet. Happens so often when a small company gets big. Hard to pass up the big bucks from BigGrocery. (no sign of that but odd they changed so much)

We have been entertaining recently and i had to make my own. Not fermented but a fresh batch for a taco party. I really don't want to add another weekly project to my plate. I make so many other fresh sauces.

He is happy with Chilula right now. Good ingredients.

Xanthan Gum doesn't bother me. I have some in the pantry but rarely use it. But it is a cheap cheat. A scant tSp will thicken a pint of water. It is in everything like the hundreds of shelf stable dressings.

Too bad about yellow bird. They seem to be trying to make it cheaper.

I only use Huy Fong for its viscosity, mostly for sandwiches. I could do without the preservatives, but don't use enough of it to refuse. The other thing I like is that it doesn't have the raw taste that some have.

I'm not fond of Cholula, Tapatio, and the other Mexican restaurant staples. Trader Joe's habaero sauce is (was?) very good, and as a general hot sauce Sky Valley is pretty good. The rest of the family are wimps, so it's mostly for me. I used to make my own serrano sauce, but when it isn't going to be appreciably better than what I can buy, I'd just as soon let someone else bother. I suppose I should try making my own with some gum to hold it in place,

Forget your jalapenos and habaneros, go for the gusto with Gray's pepper sauce made from Scotch Bonnet peppers: Amazon link to buy Grays

Ricky, habaneros are cousins of scotch bonnets and have the same heat level. Their website doesn't specify the type. Can't beat the ingredients: Water, Hot Peppers, Vinegar, Salt. I put black pepper in serrano sauce, but I don't think it would help with that much heat (must be a lot of peppers in it or it would be called spicy vinegar).

TJ's habanero has more foils, plus the viscosifier: WATER, HABANERO PEPPERS, DISTILLED WHITE VINEGAR, ONION, CANE SUGAR, SUNFLOWER OIL, SALT, GARLIC, XANTHAN GUM.

I'll have to try Gray's.

FWIW, I grew Aji Dulce chiles some years ago - they look like and have flavor like Habaneros, but have no heat at all, so I could use a lot more of them in my cooking.

https://tomatogrowers.com/products/aji-dulce-2?_pos=1&_sid=5c981e71b&_ss=r

The heat in peppers is concentrated in the ribs and seeds. So a well watered fleshy plant isn't necessarily going to be hot. Peppers can be overwatered, by irrigation or rain. Same with strawberries. They need just the right amount of water and can get bitter with both too much and too little. BTW, I have four rain barrels to save rainwater because it is so much better than irrigation. Ph comes into play too, in MI. I imagine radishes too have their "just right" level of rain. Heat comes into play too. The hottest peppers I ever grew were during a hot dry season. I used a combination of well water and rain water to try and keep them going in pots. They looked like heck but produced a lot of hot peppers.

Surprised HuyFong does not make a colab or different style sauces as a limited editions just to keep the equipment in good working order and employees employed. Who knows why the would just shut down completely. Most businesses adjusted, we found out during covid, and made tweaks and changes to keep alive.

I was going to call Heatonist to see what they had similar to YellowBird, but saw HumbleHouse on their website. Just a one time order to get us through the bbq season. Don't usually purchase many condiments. But nice to try something new.

I don't care for the extreme heat hipster drip/liquid sauces.

Then added Crystal to my grocery order. I have dates and dried mango, etc in the freezer and a tin of smoked chipotle i can add to make my own using their list of ingredients...

DH doesn't care for the added sugar but it is low on the list.

Like the price!

FWIW, the main thing I put Crystal on is fried chicken - it's the best, IMO.