I'm chocolate chip cookie-challenged, too. I think Ann has a recipe she swears by. Hopefully she'll chime in soon -

Lori

Try this recipe. It has become my favourite. And you can make up the dough and leave it in the fridge for a few days and just bake a few at a time.

Home Cookin Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table

Chocolate Chip Cookies Jacques Torres
=====================================

New York Times
Adapted from Jacques Torres

Time: 45 minutes (for 1 6-cookie batch), plus at least 24 hoursÂ
chilling

2 cups minus 2 tablespoons

(8 1/2 ounces) cake flour

1 2/3 cups (8 1/2 ounces) bread flour

1 1/4 teaspoons baking soda

1 1/2 teaspoons baking powder

1 1/2 teaspoons coarse salt

2 1/2 sticks (1 1/4 cups) unsalted butter

1 1/4 cups (10 ounces) light brown sugar

1 cup plus 2 tablespoons (8 ounces) granulated sugar

2 large eggs

2 teaspoons natural vanilla extract

1 1/4 pounds bittersweet chocolate disks or fèves, at least 60 percent
cacao content (see note)

Sea salt.

1. Sift flours, baking soda, baking powder and salt into a bowl. Set
aside.

2. Using a mixer fitted with paddle attachment, cream butter and sugars
together until very light, about 5 minutes. Add eggs, one at a time,
mixing well after each addition. Stir in the vanilla. Reduce speed to
low, add dry ingredients and mix until just combined, 5 to 10 seconds.
Drop chocolate pieces in and incorporate them without breaking them.
Press plastic wrap against dough and refrigerate for 24 to 36 hours.
Dough may be used in batches, and can be refrigerated for up to 72
hours.

3. When ready to bake, preheat oven to 350 degrees. Line a baking sheet
with parchment paper or a nonstick baking mat. Set aside.

4. Scoop 6 3 1/2-ounce mounds of dough (the size of generous golf
balls) onto baking sheet, making sure to turn horizontally any
chocolate pieces that are poking up; it will make for a more attractive
cookie. Sprinkle lightly with sea salt and bake until golden brown but
still soft, 18 to 20 minutes. Transfer sheet to a wire rack for 10
minutes, then slip cookies onto another rack to cool a bit more. Repeat
with remaining dough, or reserve dough, refrigerated, for baking
remaining batches the next day. Eat warm, with a big napkin.

Yield: 1 1/2 dozen 5-inch cookies.

Note: Disks are sold at Jacques Torres Chocolate; Valrhona fèves,
oval-shaped chocolate pieces, are at Whole Foods.

Yep, use cool cookie sheets.

As soon as I quit pouting I'll consider trying your recipe, Ann. (sniff!)

Linda

Try rolling them into balls rather then slicing them.
It can't hurt...can it?

The recipe that Ann posted is fabulous! I always have to make about a dozen before I chill the dough (because we have to have cookies right away), but even those earlybirds turn out great. It must have something to do with the hardness/softness of the flours, but I'm no flour expert. Maybe Grainlady knows(?)

Linda, we gotta get you on Jay Leno. He would LOVE you!

I use the recipe on back of bag but use half butter half crisco...when I use all butter they are flatter. I do chill the dough first.

I am CCC cursed as well. I've tried everything you listed. The taste is terrific, but they're always flat. Sigh. My work-around has been to make Outrageous Cookies, which includes the addition of peanut butter and oatmeal in addition to the chocolate chips. However, I guess then they're not actually CCC :-( It's okay. Chocolate is off limits for DH, so I'm no longer making CCC (although I may get the "bug" again and try for the perfect butterscotch chip cookie)!

Mandie

Most of my cookies come out kind of flat too, because of the butter I think, EXCEPT for the Million Dollar Neimun Marcus cookies. I'm sure you've heard of that one. It uses flour and ground oatmeal. Have you ever tried subbing some oatmeal for the flour? I actually like a flat crispy cookie better so I haven't made the million dollar cookies in a long time. Most people love them.

Virginia, I do the same thing. I bake one batch right away and then stretch the rest of the dough over two or three days.

I actually prefer a "flatter" cookie made with all butter.

Ann

Linda, I feel your pain, really I do... I can't count the number of times I've failed at making the perfect cookie or loaf of bread... But as I get older.... Well, I'm remembering things from long ago... LOL

When I was a kid I remember asking my Grandmother why her chocolate chip cookies were so thin this time... She turned around and ask me if they were fit to eat... I said yes, that they were very good, and she said "Well shush up and eat them". LOL... Then she said she'd make them fatter next time and they were... Life is too short to worry....

Hugs,
Rita

Linda, I know it might sound dumb, but, are your measuring cups accurate? I once bought a new set of cheap metal measuring cups that turned out to be wrong, which I only discovered when I had several of my own old, T&T recipes fail.

Hi Linda

Maybe give these a try? Originally from an Old BC cook book and then I tweaked it.

CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES

2/3 c. butter flavored Crisco
2/3 c. butter
1 c. granulated sugar
1 c. brown sugar
2 eggs
(the secret ingredient) 1 small box instant French Vanilla Pudding Mix (I know itÂs not real food but it works)
2 tsp. vanilla
3 cups flour (add ½ cup more for softer cookies)
1 tsp baking soda
1 tsp. salt
2 cups (12 oz) chocolate chips

Cream Crisco, butter, vanilla and both sugars. Add eggs and pudding mix and beat until very light and fluffy. Add remaining dry ingredients. Stir in chocolate chips
You can bake them as bars or cookies.

Here's the other secret for cookies that are very high and rounded, roll dough immediately while room temp. Freeze the dough balls overnight. Bake frozen dough balls on ungreased cookie sheet at 375* for 8-10 min.

For bars spread in a jelly roll pan and bake for about 20-25 min. until just slightly brown.

You can omit the chocolate chips and pudding mix add 2 cups salted peanuts and flatten with a glass dipped in granulated sugar before baking as well.

Hope they work for you if you give them a try :-P
Mike

I have this problem too. But even weirder I occasionaly have a batch turn out and I don't do anything different that I know of.
Someone on another thread was having a problem and someone suggested that they call the 1800 number of the product if there is one. I would love to hear what they have to say.
Other than than I wonder about the baking powder/soda. If its not old what would happen if used a tich more?

Linda, you are singing my song here, I don't think I;ve had more than 5 batches of CCC turn out well in my entire life and as marys said, I have no idea what I did differently those times.

I may have to give the recipes posted above a try... but only when I am feeling particularly cocky LOL!

Alexa

When I used to make them with Crisco, they were fatter. When I started using butter, they became flatter. I always used to like them fat, but after tasting the wonderful goopy wettish, warm choco chip cookies at Disney World at the Main Street cookie shop, I decided I liked them flatter and not as crisp. So now I use all butter. However, I am not really that big a fan of chocolate chip cookies anymore. Guess I got overload. Good luck Linda.

Sounds like you are doing everything right so I don't know what the problem could be. I can only offer my recipe, which always comes out definitely not flat, whether I have made it immediately after making the dough or after having had it in the fridge for a while. They even come out un-flat if I have had to soften the butter in the microwave and accidently melted it a bit.

CHOCOLATE CHIP PUDDING COOKIES

2-1/4 c. flour
1 tsp. baking soda
1 c. margarine, softened
1/4 c. sugar
3/4 c. packed brown sugar
1 tsp. vanilla
1 (4 serving size) pkg. vanilla* instant pudding
2 eggs
1 (12 oz.) pkg. chocolate chips

*Can use other flavored instant pudding for variation.

Mix flour with baking soda. Combine margarine, sugar, vanilla and pudding; mix in large mixer bowl. Beat until smooth and creamy. Beat in eggs. Gradually add flour mixture, then stir in chips and nuts. Drop by rounded teaspoonful about 2 inches apart onto ungreased baking sheets. Bake at 375 degrees for 8-10 minutes. Makes 7 dozen.

I share your dilemma! I finally settled on a recipe, the first couple of times I tried it the cookies looked magazine picture perfect. Occasionally they turn out well, I don't think they ever look as great as those first times though. I've just given up. I occasionally use the Neiman marcus recipe too, it turned out well once or twice. I love that slight oatmeal taste, but no one else in my family does. Haven't a clue what I do differently when they work-humidity maybe? Or flour, I'm not consistent in the brand I use.

The recipe Mike posted gave the best results for thicker cookies for me.

Have you tried baking them on parchment paper instead of buttering (or greasing) the cookie sheets? The buttered sheets make cookies spread more.

You might also experiment with changing the oven temperature.

I was burned out on CC cookies for awhile. Made thousands of them when we had the deli. I used the recipe for Thick and Chewy Chocolate Chip Cookies from Best Recipe (Cooks Illustrated).

Thick and Chewy Chocolate Chip Cookies

2 1/8 cups unsifted all-purpose flour
1/2 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. baking soda
12 T. unsalted butter, melted and cooled until warm
1 cup brown sugar
1/2 cup granulated sugar
1 large egg plus 1 yolk
2 tsp. vanilla extract (pure, real!)
1-2 cups semi-or bittersweet chocolate chips/chunks

Preheat oven to 325°.

Mix flour, salt, and baking soda together in a medium bowl.

Mix butter and sugars until thoroughly blended. Mix in egg, yolk, and vanilla. Add dry ingredients; mix until just combined. Stir in chips to taste.

Form 1/4 cup dough into a ball. Holding dough ball, using fingertips of both hands, pull into two equal halves. Rotate halves ninety degrees and, with jagged surfaces exposed, join halves together at their base, again forming a single cookie, being careful not to smooth dough's uneven surface. Place on parchment paper-lined cookie sheets. Dough can be refrigerated up to 2 days or frozen up to 1 month, shaped or not.

Bake until cookies are light golden brown and outer edges start to harden yet centers are still soft and puffy, 15-18 minutes. Cool on cookie sheets. Makes 1 1/2 dozen very large cookies.

I was cookie challenged in general until I adopted a couple of techniques. First of all, my oven isn't accurate but I adapt, so if you know for sure what yours is, then that takes care of that. This weekend I saw an episode of "America's Test Kitchen" where they showed how to test your oven for accuracy, and it was somthing like put the oven on 350 and then I think put a cup of water in the oven for 10? minutes and then take it out and it should register 150 degrees. Don't quote me on the cup of water, temp. of water and time, but it was something like that. Of course you could buy and oven thermometer but I just watch my stuff in the oven carefully (most of the time . . . ) But a couple of degrees shouldn't make a difference.

OK, the most important change I made was I bought some professional grade cookie pans. The right kind are heavy gauge ALUMINUM. Since I am not an aluminum pan fan, I use the pans with parchment paper. Good pans and parchment paper has made all the difference in how my cookies turn out. And I've tried all the other "professional" type cookie pans, the heavy gauge steel ones, the ones with an air cushion, special non-stick ones, etc., etc. The heavy gauge aluminum ones are the real deal. And parchment paper, which makes any pan work better.

Lastly, I bought a cookie dough scoop/baller thingy. It looks like a small ice cream scooper, the kind with the spring loaded arm that clears out the round chamber. They come in several sizes. I also use it for portioning batter into muffin cups. It has made my baking life a heck of a lot easier. They come in different sizes depending on the size cookie you want. I bought a med. sized one but I am thinking about buying a small one too.

I also now use a mix of shortening and butter, for the best of both worlds in cookie consistency. But with chocolate chip, where the butter dough is the key flavor contrast, I think I might go all butter or maybe 3/4 butter and 1/4 margarine.

I don't chill the dough but I read here on last year's choc. chip cookie thread that was a secret to good cookies.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cookie scoop on Amazon

I have been using airbake cookie sheets, the ones that have an air cushion/space. Not overly fond of them but it never dawned on me that they could be tthe culprit. I used to make decent CCC's years ago when my kids were little, so maybe that is a big part of my problem.

I do have an oven thermometer that my kid gave me for Xmas...that is how I know my oven is about 2-3 degrees off.

I also use a scoop to portion out the dough. I have a small (about 2" dia) stainless scoop from Pampered Chef. Perfect size for cookie dough.

Guess I may have to look into getting some different pans. Lpink, what brand of professional pans do you have? I have no clue what makes a pan "professional grade", so any advice will be appreciated.

Linda

Linda, I think you might just have really high chocolate chip cookie standards.

I was looking back on Alton Brown's recipes: The Thin, The Chewy, and The Puffy and it looks like for The Puffy, he uses cake flour, shortening instead of butter, and a higher baking powder to flour ratio than for the others. (Are you comfortable using all shortening?)

Here is a link that might be useful: The Puffy

For cookies pans, get the $6 (maybe they are up to $8 now) heavy aluminum 1/2 sheet-sized jelly-roll pans at a restaurant supply store. I've even seen them at WalMart.

I dunno, I bought them in the little housewares store that is in the farmers market. They just said, "heavy duty" or "professinal grade" or something like that on the label. Professional grade is just a marketing term. I'm not sure what "grade" is heavy duty, I just handled them and they seemed heavy duty to me, lol! Aluminum can't be beat for fast, even heat distribution. I have three pans going when I'm making cookies, so that I don't put cold cookies on a hot pan.

After flat chocolate chip cookies for years I finally got nice high chewy cookies just by changing the brand of butter, Costco brand to Tillamook, I was using. I have made several batches and they are coming out just like they did years ago. I donÂt know why but I think itÂs the water or something added to most of the butter that we buy now.

Check out the link to the post a few weeks before Christmas about flat cookies.

Claudia

Here is a link that might be useful: Flat Chocolate Chip Cookies

OK I read through this entire thing! Linda, I also think it's your airbake cookie sheets. I finally donated mine to the local thrift store and started getting more consistent cookies. As a person who was cookie challenged myself for years, I can attest it was the da*n cookie sheets, and once I made the change, have never looked back!

BTW, those Jacques Torres CC cookies are the best I've ever had. They will bake perfectly on a heavy duty aluminum half sheet pan.

Hmmm...maybe it's the store-brand butter I use.

Okay, now I am on a mission... I am gonna lick this thing! (And the bowl, too!)

Linda

I use the Alton Brown recipe for "The Chewy" (see the above post by Jessicavanderhoff), it was sent to me by Gina in a swap and is a winner in our family. THe thing it has in common with Nancy's recipe is melted butter. So try melting the butter.....

AM

I don't care for the air bake sheets either...I have the aluminum 1/2 sheets from the restaurant supply and I like better. Now the air bake sheets just get used for other things.

Butter...used it when I could get it from the food service, can't do that anymore, so I use Land O Lakes..unsalted for all baking.

Nancy

Linda, I agree that it's those da**able AirBake cookie sheets, I had some and just hated them, the cookies got too hard before they got done on the bottom. I gave them away to one of Amanda's friends who was moving into her first place, I told her I had problems with them but she was still glad to get them.

I just use the Nestle's Toll House recipe on the back of the bag, I use half butter and half shortening and I don't flatten the cookie dough out, I just dump it by spoonfuls onto the baking sheet.

I do have the aluminum half sheet pans, I bought a package of two at Sam's Club for less than $10 and I highly recommend them, I use them for everything from cookies to roasting vegetables.

Annie

Isn't that interesting! I have been following this thread from beginning. Since we have decided to cut out (more like down) on unhealthy fats, I have stopped making chocolate chip cookies a few years ago. The fat I used for chocolate chip cookies was Crisco and I never had any problems with it. Never tried butter thought. Hang in there, Linda! Keep trying and I am sure you will meet your perfect CCC one day! Al

There are differences in butter brands. My DH purchased Land 'O Lakes & made CCCs a few months ago. I could tell by looking at the cookies something was amiss. The first taste told me he'd used something other than our usual Horizon Organic. It was both taste & texture. Butterfat/milk solids/water ratios vary slightly between brands. (I use Plugra for butter cookies.) So, if you're inconsistent with brands it 'might' be contributing to your various results? I'm very brand loyal & getting the butter temp right is my biggest challenge in teaching DH how to make cookies. I've got him mixing the dough with his hands to get the feel...it's helping.

Try sticking with one brand of ingredients for a few batches & see what happens. Then, change just one ingredient at a time & record the results.

I LOVE CCC cookies!

/tricia

Right now I am in the midst of a quest for the perfect oatmeal cookie. I can tell you one thing, the search for the ultimate cookie is a fun adventure! After the pans and the parchment and the cookie scoop, the next greatest factor I am finding is the shortening/butter issue. Tweaks in that make a lot of difference. Everyone has their own perfect combo depending on a lot of factors.

I have a recipe that uses cornstarch that I like. I also cut the sugar down and am not super crazy over sweets so may not be the best resource. But others say it's a really good cookie. They aren't flat cookies.

Cookie, with a sign-on name like that, you don't really like cookies? LOL

Chocolate Chip is certainly not my favorite, I could go the rest of my life without one but molasses? Oh yeah!

Annie

I'm another who could live without chocolate chip cookies. But the recipe I use has, fortunately, been embraced here.

However, since you mentioned you've tried most forum members' recipes, I don't see the point in adding mine.

Instead I'll ask if you could describe your technique. If I can see exactly how you go about it, I may be able to help.

Sol

It sounds like you might have gotten the answer with the air bake sheets you were using. I was going to suggest sticking the cookie sheet with the dough on it in the fridge for thirty minutes, then sticking them in the oven to bake. I just read that trick a few weeks ago while doing my cooking baking. I don't know if it makes any difference if you're starting with refrigerated dough anyway, but it might. I've been using Dorothy Greenspan's recipe, which seems to be very similar to other recipes. I've subbed some cocoa powder for some of the flour to make them chocolate chocolate chip cookies, and they come out nice and plump. But I use the jelly pans with either parchment or silpat. I'll be interested to find out if the pans are what makes the difference.

Sally

I have a theory, and maybe some of you can shoot it down depending on your ovens (because it makes no sense).

I make the NY Times Chocolate Chip recipe (my absolute favorite). I have an electric oven that's pretty close to spot on in temperature (based on other things I bake).

My CCC don't come out totatlly flat - but flatter than I like. When I went to my daughter's house and made them there, they did not come out flat. She has a gas oven.

It couldn't be gas vs electric, could it??

Bonnie

I don't know that I have a "technique", really. I simply follow whatever recipe I am making. For the most part cream together the fats and sugars, then stir in the dry ingredients. Scoop onto cookie sheets and bake.

I don't have a big enough fridge to put sheets of cookies in it for 30 minutes. But I have tried chilling the dough, and don't recall it making a whole lot of difference.

I am thinking it might be those darn air bake sheets. I think I'll try a side by side test using an air bake and a regular sheet pan and see if that is the problem. Maybe see if parchment helps, too.

Linda

Made another batch today....dismal failure. Again.

Here is the recipe I tried:

Pecan Supremes
Mrs. Fields Cookie Book

2 c AP flour
1 tsp soda
1/4 tsp salt
3/4 c quick oats
3/4 c dark brown sugar (packed)
3/4 c white sugar
1 c salted butter, softened
2 large eggs
2 tsp vanilla
1 c chopped pecans
1 c semisweet chocolate morsels

Preheat oven to 300F,

In a medium bowl combine flour, soda, salt & oats, mix well with whisk and set aside.

In large bowl, blend sugars with electric mixer at medium speed, Add butter and mix to form a grainy paste. Scrape down sides of bowl, then add eggs and vanilla. Beat at medium speed until fully combined.

Add the flour mixture, pecans and chocolate chips, blend at low speed until combined. Do not overmix.

Drop by rounded tablespoons onto ungreased baking sheets. bake 18-20 minutes. Immediately transfr cookies with a spatula to a cool, flat surface.

Use the parchment paper. It makes a huge difference, and at the very least it will make it possible for you to get your blob cookies off the baking pans.

LOL, Teresa! Yeah, I can lift the whole mess off the sheet and toss it in the trash in one fell swoop! Ha!

Linda

Try subing butter flavor Crisco for 1/2 the butter and again don't refrigerate the dough. Roll it into balls and freeze it solid on cookie sheets. Once frozen store in zip lock bags (not the cookie sheets) Bake them in the frozen state. It works for me on bare air bake.

300° is an unusually low temperature for baking cookies. I'd think they would tend to melt before they bake. I guess Mrs. Fields bakes them slowly because they are so big. They never really taste done to me. Of course theirs don't melt, but they may be controlling that in some other way.

Another thought: I know you said you've tried using more flour, but I'm still wondering, how do you measure the flour? In case you sift before measuring, don't. Recipes now assume that you use a lot more flour than sifting produces. Stir up the flour a little so it's not packed, then scoop it up lightly, without packing. (You actually get sightly different results if you spoon it into the cup rather than scoop it up into your measure, and some writers specify that, but chocolate chip cookies are not the kind of thing where you need to worry about that.) If you sift you end up with a lot less flour.

Also, you could try using bleached all-purpose flour if you now use unbleached. The ragged edges of the bleached flour grains grab the butter diffently. This is way more fine-tuning than CC cookies usually need, but you are on a quest!

Now I want a CCC! Just saw this slideshow on Serious Eats about available CCC in NYC. They all look great, the comments were very interesting.

Here is a link that might be useful: Best New York chocolate chip cookies

Helene, I'll have to watch the slideshow when I get home, thanks!

CC, I don't sift, but I do use unbleached flour. Had no clue that could make such a difference, but it kind of makes sense, because when my kids were small I made CCC's all the time and they turned out good.

I have only been using unbleached flour for about 10-12 years, so maybe that is my problem!

I really don't want to use bleached flour, so what would the ratio of unbleached to bleached be in a recipe?

Linda

Linda, you don't need to change the amount when changing from bleached to unbleached or vice versa. (The unbleached is made from higher protein flour, but this isn't like the difference between AP and cake flour, when you should change the amount.) Really for cookies I wouldn't hesitate to use either one, but we're troubleshooting here, so I thought I'd mention the difference. It applies more to cakes, when the creamed butter will work differently with the two flours and supposedly it's essential for the best results. With CC cookies people don't usually worry much about how creamed the butter is; you can pretty much throw everything in the mixer and CC cookie dough comes out. But it would be worth doing the experiment, making one batch with bleached flour.

The most likely fixes -- using shortening instead of butter, adding more flour, you've already tried.
A couple more thoughts: how much more flour did you add? Try 1/4 cup more.
How big are your eggs? Maybe you have nice fresh great big eggs and they are too much liquid, that is, they're liquid until the protein cooks.
I just looked up what Shirley Corriher has to say about cookie spread. Mostly it's about liquid absorption (enough flour, and not a low-protein flour) or about the sharp melting point of butter. But she also mentions something we haven't talked about on this thread. Acid helps the egg proteins tough up faster, so it limits spread. Recipes with baking soda neutralize the acid. If you want less spread, she suggests using baking powder as a leavener. Instead of 1/4 tsp of baking soda, use 1 and 1/2 tsp of baking powder.