McMansion - The Thread Continues

16 years ago

A McMansion is like porn...you know one when you see one.

Sometimes it is easier to define something by its opposite: for anti-McMansion, go to the home page of Sarah Susanka (www.susanka.com), the founder of the small house movement in the US. Note that many of the small houses pictured are still over 1500 square feet, a few are close to 3000.

Conceptually, McMansions are large because separate square footage is assigned to each activity, and within one recognizable space the layout prevents that space from comfortably containing distinct activities. Generally much of the square footage is rarely used because everyone is in the kitchen. Fancy-pants foyers are a hallmark. Totally ridiculous roof profiles ('more gables than the neighbors') is another.

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skypathway

16 years ago

I think that when someone labels a house as a McMansion - it really says more about the person making the statement than it does about the family that lives in the house.

There has always been small and large homes, small homes on large lots and large homes in small lots. Visit any large city and you'll see gorgeous old mansions packed tightly together, even sharing walls. There have always been well built homes and others that are not. And there has always been people who complain that they don't build things the way they used to and those who make fun of homes that are different from theirs.

Sky

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Comments (41)

worthy
16 years ago
You got it!

Anything bigger than I can afford is ridiculous. And any layout that differs from the set of an American sitcom is much too hoitee toitee for me.
lindybarts
16 years ago
Man...I was sure hoping this thread was going to die in peace! :c(
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Hi All, I wanted to update you all after the advice that you provided. First off I met with several residential architect's and really hit it off with one and I had actually toured of few of his houses previously and really liked them. We discussed what I did and did not like about the plan and he told me he would absolutely be willing to help but he thought I should go back to the builder and draftsman first. He has not worked with either previously but since we are in a small town he was very familiar with their work and thought that the draftsman although not an architect very talented and the builder very quality. He pointed out some things that he really liked such as the wall thickness and the builder uses a stick roof ( I think that was the terminology), not trusses and really liked the recessed windows. He did understand my concerns (and all of yours :)) and even pointed out the roof issue as well and how he would have dealt with it although I can't remember now. Part of the allure of just changing few things on the current plan is the builder new exactly the cost and timeline and I was able to walk through it since he just finished a very similar one although that does make me feel like it is less 'custom' and just a more expensive tract home. So we met with the draftsman and the builder and came up with the idea of swapping the location of bedroom 4 and the garage so there would be a side entry which would also help with using the same windows up front etc to improve the facade. We also asked him to add a .5 bathroom and change the roofline of the house all which they said they could do. At the end the builder even said that since I am not adding any sq footage that he could do it for the same price. When I sent a follow up email with some pics as had been requested I got an email from the builder saying that since we were drastically changing the plan and the draftsman would have to start from scratch we would have to pay for new plans and engineering and that he may not be able to keep the price the same. So now I have some follow up questions.... When hiring an architect does that usually include the plan and engineering or just the plan? Those of you who have worked with a builder have you had to pay for plans and engineering? A common theme that I see on this forum and feedback on this plan was that it was 'fat' and too deep. I understand that to mean that the rooms shouldn't be more than 2 deep for light purposes. This plan only has that on the left side of the house where bedrooms 2-4 are but since it is on an exterior wall does that still hold? I just want to make sure I understand correctly. The architect seemed to not be too concerned because the ceilings are 14 feet and there are lots of windows. Right now there is only a 1.25 per sq foot price difference between the draftsman and the architect so I would much prefer to go with the architect if all the other costs remain the same (plans, engineering etc). Although 1.25 sq foot adds up I would prefer to go the architect route and start from scratch. The only thing that was stopping me from doing that in the beginning was knowing what the product and cost would be but if my requests are going to change both things then I think I would be better off going with the architect. I of course will ask the architect on Monday but have a meeting with the builder tomorrow so was trying to wrap my head around mt options before then. I would love any insight and really appreciate all the thoughts so far.
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brutuses
16 years ago
Someone tell me what is the difference between a mansion and a Mcmansion? I have neither, I have a mini Plantation that's only 1900 sq.ft. I know that's a shoe box to most people. LOL I've always loved plantation design, but will never live in one so I built an Acadian style house so I can say I live in a mini plantation. Yea I know, I'm nuts.

Also, why do people call houses McMansions with such an insulting tone? I always call big houses that aren't quite big enough to be considered a mansion, a McMansion. I don't understand why people are so offensive/offended by that word. I've never used it to be derogatory, yet I see others do.
nycefarm_gw
16 years ago
Why???
flgargoyle
16 years ago
I was thought a 'Mcmansion' was a wanna-be mansion, like if they sold mansions at McDonalds. We're definitely in the 'anti-mansion' camp- we are planning to downsize from our current 1600 ft when we build in SC. We're trying to go with 1200 ft, and a simple gable roof. The trick is trying to work in some style and charm, something many (but not all) houses lack these days. We have a Mcmansion neighborhood near ours- comically huge houses on tiny lots, dozens of roof lines, faux everything- yuck!
kats
16 years ago
Boy am I going to get into trouble for this one but, I agree with Skypathway 100%

The style might not be your cup of tea but should that really be a concern? Your home value won't be affected so long as the "McMansion" is kept up and it's not a used car lot or painted pink with purple polka dots.

Anytime someone puts another's dream down as being ridiculous, hoitee toitee, with totally ridiculous roof profiles..more gables than the neighbors, and comically huge houses on tiny lots, and faux everything.....they're being narcissistic.
sue36
16 years ago
"Conceptually, McMansions are large..."

Not all large houses are McMansions and size is only a small part of what makes a McMansion.

The Susanka houses seem like a great way to lose money on real estate. Build a house that is small with a high cost per square foot. Pretty much a perfect recipe for losing money if you go to resell anytime soon. Buyers care about acreage, location, square footage, bedrooms, etc. Good luck with, "I know it's small and expensive, but look at all the neat organizational nooks and crannies!".
sierraeast
16 years ago
Bottom line, You do what works for you and yours! I guess ours is a mcmunchkin. Small footprint on large property. We aren't real concerned about resale but i get sue's point and agree with kats!
lindybarts
16 years ago
I am annoyed that this thread has crept up yet again and should know better than to add more fuel but just had to applaud skypathway's post! Right on!

::::::CLAPING WILDLY::::::::
kateskouros
16 years ago
basically, if any of you can't afford it it's a mc mansion; is that right? if it's bigger than yours, it's a mc mansion. if you can't think of what to do in that much space, it's a mc mansion. and as stated in the last thread (we SO do NOT need a new one) the term is used by those who need to deem themselves superior to others. ok, ok! enough already. we already know you're better than everyone else. curious how you are STILL unhappy.
galore2112
16 years ago
kateskouros: Actually, no. A McMansion is a mansion that a middle class family _can_ afford. Which isn't the case for a true mansion.
kateskouros
16 years ago
quite right jrldh. forgive me as i am pms'ing.
amyks
16 years ago
OH, my. Here we go again. I very much agree with skypathway, and kats, and kateskouros (the first post, because I'm not pms'ing right now:-)) I will only add on to kats mention of narcissism. It is my least favorite personality (disorder), closely followed by passive aggressives.

Amy
DYH
16 years ago
When I married my DH, he was living in a McMansion. It was smaller than our current home at 3400 sf, but it had a 1500sf unfinished basement. I don't consider our current home a McMansion even though it is 4,000sf. How can that be?

IMHO, a McMansion is a 3000+sf house plan that is used over and over and over and over again by the nationally known production builders. "Customizing" it means you must select what they have in their design center -- windows, faucets, cabinets, floors, paint, light fixtures. Changing the plan means you can add a specific room, porch, deck on an "optional" plan. "Upgraded" means you pay for the kinds of things in their "Model home". They will only allow the appliances in their packages, based upon the package that you choose. You don't go anywhere else to shop for your house choices --- they may also own all those subsidiaries that are providing the windows, doors, cabinets, etc. The builder of my DH's home does own all those other companies.

You may see the same McMansion designs built in the same neighborhood, the same street, in neighborhoods throughout your city, throughout your state, in other states.

I really had wanted to stay out of this. Sigh. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. There's nothing wrong with living in a McMansion. I'm not judgemental about people who live in them -- I married a wonderful man!
oruboris
16 years ago
I was thrilled when the last thread hit 150 and died a natural death. Was all I could do to keep from helping it along a bit...

I too agree with skypathway.

And I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one un-impressed by Susanka: some of the plans I've seen her promote were pretty from the outside, but awful on the inside with 3 or 4 separate eating areas, miles of hallways, and the formal dining not even adjoining the kitchen.
totallyblessed
16 years ago
"I guess ours is a mcmunchkin".

Sierraeast, that was positively hilarious! Thanks for the good laugh. :o)
pinktoes
16 years ago
It's the "Mc" part that defines it. It's masquerading as something it is not: a mansion. We settle for it because it's more affordable than the real mansion (and doesn't require the staff to keep up, which is good because you just can't find good help these days).

Well, Americans of all stripes LOVE McDonald's and its clones. It's the great equalizer and people of all socioeconomic levels buy into it. It's comfortable to us. It serves as food. It tastes good. And so just what is WRONG with that--in food or houses? Our culture invented it.
aphilla
16 years ago
don't hang around here much anymore. I pop in to see what's going on, and, "surprise, a new McMansion thread!" Now if THS could just set up a notification service to send me an email whenever a new McMansion thread starts....
bungeeii
16 years ago
There's a lot to be said for sky's assessment.

My question is;
When are going to get another radical Malthusian thread going?
rileysmom17
Original Author
16 years ago
Well, the only one who has to like it is the person living in it. However I will reply to the anti-Susanka comment: read the books. Further, there is a market for these homes, which admittedly are higher per square foot than most subdivisions...but not a flip-it market. Flipping burgers and flippable homes...the same across the country. I eat at McDonalds, but I walk my dogs in the historic district, not Sensationelle Acres or Historicalle Farmes.
sierraeast
16 years ago
On a recent trip to san luis obispo, in older towns such as this, my wife and i like to walk around the old historic neighborhoods to see some of the awesome victorians,arts and crafts, bungalows,etc that have been there since pre 1900's and into the 20th century.On small lots you will see a three story victorian next to a small single story bungalow with a variation of sizes and types squeezed in together on small lots.To us it's awesome and im sure no type of"mcmansion" conflict was labled in the day.With more and more houses being or following the exterior design of these older homes in newer builds today, im seeing a resurgance of what was in older towns i would assume all across the country. Personally i think it's great.It is a little funky to see a huge house put in a neighborhood of smaller historical homes. I dont think that has it's place, but large homes do have their place because it's simply all about what works for you.Even if my wife and i could afford a large sq.ft. house, we wouldn't because it would not fit our needs and dont need a huge amount of space.There's something to be said about building small to keep it more energy efficient as a part of building green which we are doing as much as we can, but we both appreciate home designs old and new, large or small.
teach2007
16 years ago
This thread is McStupid!!! LOL
ponydoc
16 years ago
I am sure to some we are building a McMansion because I am sure for our area it seems huge. Of course I live in a county in which less than 4% of the population has a college degree and my DH and both have advanced degrees... does that mean we are McEducated? LOL

To each his own.

PD
patty_cakes
16 years ago
Wonbyherwits, I TOTALLY disagree. A McMansion is a definite custom build with everything from 'soup to nuts'. You don't find 'soup to nuts' in tract housing. It can be on a huge lot or a postage stamp~it's the prominance of the house that matters, along with the numerous upgrades. ;o)
utfan
16 years ago
We also are building bigger and nicer than most of our known population (a poorer rural county). We are on a lake and there are plenty of weekend homes that are bigger and nicer than our primary home but no one in town ever sees are hears about those. We also have a tremendous value as we are building for less per square foot than many that have much less amenities. I've busted my tail to get a house with "value".

I liken it to driving a sporty foreign sedan that cost me less than a nice Camry and thousands less than these 3/4 ton diesel top of the line pick-ups that everyone drives around. The local populace wouldn't blink an eye if I dropped 40K on a pick-up. But look at that guy in that fancy 24K sports sedan. It's all about perspective.
sue36
16 years ago
I agree with Wonbyherwits definition of McMansion. Toll Brothers comes to mind. Large with "upgrades", but still a McHouse. If it was a custom house with "soup to nuts" it wouldn't be a McMansion, it would just be over the top.
charliedawg
16 years ago
McMansion is subjective.
cumpaniciu
16 years ago
Before finding the right definition for "McMansion", rileysmom17 needs to learn the meaning of "class warfare".

There's ugly and there's beautiful (plus a lot of shades in between). Size or price have nothing to do with either.
brutuses
16 years ago
I'm with teach2007, this is McStupid.
amyks
16 years ago
I followed my gut (I was a reporter back in the day, before I became an insurance agent) and went over to the small homes forum to spy ;). Just as I suspected....No fewer than 3 mcmansion threads on the first page alone. So, there are these types of threads out there, no need to stir the pot when we finally saw the last thread die a slow and prolonged death. I didn't have time to snoop any further, like to page 2, because I have to continue packing to move into my not-so-small house next Saturday.

*giggling my way back to the packing boxes*

Amy
rileysmom17
Original Author
16 years ago
hey cumpaniciu I'm a Libertarian myself
hey to everyone else who wanted this thread to die, why are you posting?

possibly you are in agreement with the hammer-and-sickle system which, as I recall, does not favor free speech

definitely this is dumb, bye y'all...maybe the small house forum has more intelligent conversation

ps I read in some mag rag a few years back that the supersize-me subdivision houses would be the next slums, convert the master closet to a kitchen and you can certainly fit two families into one house no problem...giggle over that one
cumpaniciu
16 years ago
{{gwi:1513129}}
Thanks for the tip. I'm gonna talk to my wife to see if we can take in one more family by closing off the formal dining and living. Wonder if they can use the powder room as their main bath, or I have to fit a shower in the laundry room.

Why let this thread die? It's entertaining.
anthem
16 years ago
Side track - but not sure our democratic country 'favors free speech' either - or some of the other freedoms granted by our constitution. While I'm not saying I favor another country (which I'm not) - I definitely think that the rights that we've built this country upon have been severely trampled upon in the last few years.
theroselvr
16 years ago
I've been lurking this forum for a good 6 months. One thing I noticed was a lot of posters seemed to be doing custom homes. I've sat here and drooled at the plans, the kitchens, baths & finished houses and actually hoped to make my own custom house thread eventually but it was not meant to be.

There's not one piece of land to be found where we are. We did find an awesome 12 acres but it was nothing we could customize as the town the land was in was very picky about what could be built. Had we only bought the land, it would take us years to submit plans like the current builder did.

While we did not want a home with 2 floors, we could not find a rancher that had the master away from the other rooms. We wanted a basement (hard to find around here) and a 2 car garage. If we couldn't have the garage we wanted enough land to be able to build one. After looking at houses from February until September, there is no way we would get that here.

We ended up buying a beautiful 4 bedroom home, large master bath with my jacuzzi tub (yes, I will use it and know what it's like to clean) it has an office / library, gourmet kitchen with a gorgeous staircase in the foyer. While we wanted a porch, rock front and sun room we did not get those things because in order to afford the house we had to buy one someone else spc'd out.

Since we live in NJ, the home of the McMansions, hubby & I have seen tons of them get built. We swore we'd never own one, yet, what we ended up with might be considered one by some. To me it is not, it is a 4 bedroom house that makes great use of space. There is not one inch of wasted space as none of the rooms have really high ceilings.

Our house will be in a community with what we consider McMansions, fairly large (3,000+ sq ft) estate homes. We'd walk around them wondering why a builder would waste 1/2 of a house by not building rooms over the family room and leaving them open upstairs, so that you look over the railing upstairs, down below. I have no clue how someone would raise small children in those houses. The floor plans minus the wasted space are beautiful, but we just can't see living like that. I do understand why some people do, especially those that have their parents living with them. To me that makes a lot of sense.

If our 2,700 sq ft 4 bedroom home is considered a McMansion by some, so be it. I might consider it a mini McMansion :) lol... I will say one thing, I will enjoy every minute of living in it and I'm sure we will be happy to have a newer energy efficient home instead of spending the same amount of money on an older 4 bedroom home that does not make as good of use as space as ours does.
oruboris
16 years ago
Well, I'm posting so this thread hits it's 150 and dies, too.

Re-iterating what I feel is the central point:
McMansion is, by definition, a perjorative, and shouldn't be used in polite society.

Maybe we should start a thread on 'McShacks' and see how popular that would be...
cumpaniciu
16 years ago
McShacks are like porn - you know one when you see one. Especially the ones that shamelesly spread their privates (trash cans, clunkers, garden hoses and what-not) for all to see.

Bingo, I like that name.
kats
16 years ago
Here's a couple of funny ones. ALL are derogatory and NONE (just like McMansion) should be used to critique another's home.....so long as it's not a used car lot or painted purple polka-dots that is. And, if it is, then use which ever term you prefer.

McShack, McHovel, McShed, McTrailer, McShanty, McBox, McHut, McCabin, McCrib, McCottage, McShelter, McBerth, McGreen, McNook, McCoop, McRoom, McLean-To.
rosieo
16 years ago
Lol, kats! One of my neighbors is from the Bronx, he likes to call me a redneck grandma. A Gram Cracker.

I used to complain about fumes from the lawnmower in the garage so my husband built a McShack (looks like a McLean-To) on the side of our house and man did I ever hate it. It looks like a friggin pony shed. Excuse me - McPony Shed. Everytime I looked at it I thought it only needed a little pony or goat looking out to make it complete. Then when I complained about it blocking the light from a window he put a skylight in it which was just plain asinine.

But it sure is nice to walk through the garage now without smelling fumes from the lawn equipment and garbage cans. So I guess to each his own. I figure we all have something that others can look down us for. And my neighbor liked it so much he built one too. So much for taste.
energy_rater_la
16 years ago
I vote for changing the title of the thread to McShacks.
McMansion threads have been done to death here.

If not, this will just be my contribution to the 150 marker.
Have a great afternoon everyone!
flgargoyle
16 years ago
You left one out- we live in a McRanch! FL is full of them....

McMansion - The Thread Continues

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