97% sure of preliminary house plan!

12 years ago

Third go around with the plan and believe we are close to hitting the mark... Upper level, not sure if we should wall off left side of foyer where stairs are or leave it open with a railing. With a railing those entering the home would have a view into the master bedroom. However, not sure we like closing in a plan that we hoped to be open! Door into master closet will open into the closet, not out into the bathroom and we'll probably eliminate fireplace downstairs. Our biggest issue is with the front elevation and to a lesser extent the rear elevation. Building in a "vineyard" type area and the architectural guidelines state the following:

"The unifying concept for home design should be that they exhibit a wine country Mediterranean, or country aesthetic. Napa Valley, Tuscany or Provence come to mind. Aesthetics bring to mind images of stone and pale stucco walls: porches, arbors, and trellises to give shade, warm brown wood timbers and soft shingles or wood siding, predominantly horizontal building forms, tile, slate and heavy composition roofs, windows and doors set deeply into think walls. There is a relaxed informality and a thoughtful attention to detail. And there is a deep respect for and relationship with the climate that supports viticulture and outdoor living." That all being said, not sure the elevations exude that type of feeling. I think we are getting there but not quite. We don't want "formal" per se, but want warm and inviting. Sorry to be long winded, but I am sure in need of some ideas!

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Comments (8)

athensmomof3
12 years ago
It looks pretty craftsman like to me. There is a blog called Velvet and Linen and it is written by a designer with an architect husband. They are in the process of designing a house that is precisely what you described called Patina Farm. Here is a link to one of her posts about it. Lots of great pictures. There are also several other recent posts about their design and inspiration, also with great photos. Her husband Steve Giannetti also has a website with several houses that may inspire. They are in California so several have that wine country feel.

Hope this helps!

The major issues I see are the columns (very craftsman) and the roof (also craftsman).

Here is a link that might be useful: Patina farm
dekeoboe
12 years ago
I'd want a window in the power room.
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Thanks for the input. We received some more info today from the architect-the entry will actually be between the two floors(as of now-so I think there will be a landing(and perhaps a closet?) with stairs going up and stairs going down). We won't be using that entrance-it will be mostly for guests. The master is in the front because the lots across the street are wooded and can't be built on(and probably never will be due to the slopes and lack of water-too long and complicated to explain-has to due with water restrictions and a building moratorium in the town). This is California-lots are small and the house behind us sits 5 feet off the property line-not a whole lot of privacy back there. We tried to get the house moved as close to the street as possible as it actually has more privacy than the back(there are a fair amount of trees between the zoning envelope and the street) and would put more space between us and our neighbors. The sitting room is supposed to be more of a sleeping alcove-aka "snore room" as my husband and I both have snoring issues :( . We wanted a space that one of us can go off to when we're having a "loud" night. Our mud room is placed similarly in the house we're in now, so we are pretty well trained in getting shoes off there or leaving them in the garage. I'm not wild about the long hallway, or the dining room being so far from the kitchen and I too question the efficiency of the kitchen cabinets-things we will discuss with the architect over the phone and in emails and in more detail when we meet with him mid May. I think its going to be challenging doing this from the east coast, but so far he's been really good about keeping in contact with us and following up on questions we might have. The angles in the kitchen and craft room are to give some ocean view to those rooms- we also talked about having a small courtyard in that area-it's a bit more protected from ocean breezes( the temps there range from the 40's in winter to mid 70's in summer-80 is considered hot hot hot! Quite a change from where we live now.) Again, this is very very basic and I'm sure we'll be changing things-also not sure where doors and such are going just yet too-and closets are something that need to be clarified. Thanks again for your comments.
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Thank you all for your comments! The weather is getting cold and I hope everyone stay warm and safe. Littlebug- For UPS person or guests, I expect them park on the N St and walk up to the front door. The bottom right corner of the house is close to the community gate. There are about 30 houses on N street and only 10 on W street. So people entering the subdivision will see the front first. In case we do not have enough parking spaces there, they would find a spot close to the front door on the W St. Since the sidewalk is adjacent to the curb (without any grass between the curb and the sidewalk), the walk does not seem too bad. I understand the current layout with garage in the back is not ideal for guest parking. The lot is too narrow (70ft x 130ft) for front-or side-loading garage. Annkh- Yes. Very good suggestions on the window sizes. On the east side, the wall to wall distance is less than 20ft. The current neighbor does not have a single window. We currently have three windows in the bedrooms and one in the 2nd floor kids bath. They are for lighting and ventilation. On the wall facing the west street, we had small windows to limit heat exposure in the summer as we are building in the hot climate of deep south. I went ahead and did some changes. On the east side, the bedroom window sizes are increased from 2050 to the standard 3050. On the west side, I added two 3050 windows (one in dining and one in garage). I feel good about the window addition in garage. Just not so sure about the one in dining. Other than heat, it may cause problem for furniture placement. In addition, the small game room windows on front and west have been increased from 2010 to 2020. The two windows in the kitchen have been enlarged too. I made some small changes to the window header height. Some of the windows on the elevations look too close to the eaves so I moved them down about 6”. Not sure if that is that is right. I will verify with the designer and talk to builders. The current design has two small kitchen windows below high cabinets. I proposed to move them up to allow better lighting. Kirkhall-That is an important point and very good question. I always think that the front is on the N street as that is the front setback at on the plat. It is an empty lot in an established subdivision so we have our address already. I need to check with the city to find out where the house address would exactly be located. Or shall I also check with the post office? Lavender Lass- Thank you for your continued support and wish you a very happy new year! We are moving slowly. Just started to get cost estimate on the build. The W street is not busy. There are only about 10 homes up on that street. Our house is close to the sole entrance gate. No through traffic. Windows on the west side wall are limited and relatively small as we are concerned about the very hot summer climate here. Yes. Guests are going to park on the street in front our house. The house has a front setback of 20ft along that side so I think that is supposed to be the front unless we apply for a variance. AnnieDeighnaugh- I appreciate your comments. We have struggled a lot regarding the kitchen layout and tried different designs with help from people in the kitchen forum. I understand that the up-down island orientation would make a lot of sense in normal situations. In our case, the area is about 15ft by 16ft which is limited by the walls supporting the second floor game room. We need another 1-2ft to rotate the island 90 degree. The sink is placed on the corner so that we have more prep area to the left of the sink and in front of the fridge. Based on the prep sink size, we would probably about 2’6” landing to the other side of the sink behind the cook area. I was first worried about the island as a barrier between the cooktop and the fridge too. Just hope the problem won’t be that severe as it does not cut into the traffic much and we do have about 4ft island clearance both ways. Yes. There is a potential problem with the oven door and the pantry door being open at the same time. We may change the swing door to a pocket door to the pantry. The game room has windows along three walls. The ones on the back provide some views to the back yard and the rest are just for lighting/ventilation/exteriors. I did increase the small windows of 2010 to 2020. The front elevation needs a lot of work to make it look right. I have no idea about the front door-pediment-roof pitch proportions. I would bring the issue to the designer and certainly appreciate any comments here. Many Thanks! JF Attached are elevations with some changes to the windows. I did it on the CAD file from the designer just to illustrate some of the ideas (more windows, larger windows, lower window header, front door with vertical panels). Front Back Left Right
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Oh, golly, golly, I'm so thrilled that you all have taken the trouble to read my tome and offer comments! Thank you, dianalo, rhome and bmorepanic! I really appreciate the suggestions and will give all of them some thought because that is exactly what I was hoping to get: fresh eyes that haven't been over and over the same old thinking, as I have by now. A few quick thoughts: rhome: It's a good point about the small size of the counter to left of the sink (between DW and sink). I gave it that space just as elbow room in case I do have the DW elevated above the counter. Without that space, I thought it would make it feel like you were doing dishes with the sink nearly touching a wall because of the vertical side of the raised DW cab. I am definitely not wedded to it, nor to the little 6" space on the other side of the DW. That's probably going to evaporate, anyway, (except for an inch or to of framing to keep the DW door from being slap against the wall) because the room is about 2.5 inches out of square in that corner. Odds are on that I either a) won't have any DW or b) will have it at normal counter height merely to use as an expensive dish drying rack. I plan to set up the finalized "test" kitchen, and work it, live with all appliances and water installed, before we go too much further along. It'll be ugly as Hell, but I've lived with inconvenient and ugly for years. So getting it down to just one annoyance in the name of making sure I've got it right seems like a good trade-off. Since both rhome and bmorepanic have identified issues about the corner pantry area, that obviously needs more thought. The 30" door is fairly fixed in position; it can't move south (it may be possible to move it north) because this is a timber-framed building and its southern edge is right against an unmoveable framing member. That's what the small box with an X in it signifies. (Note the similar one on the opposite side behind the range; that one controls the placement of the stove vent hood.) I thought the diagonal step-in gave me more storage space than truncating it by running it straight across. The little closet is just a niche to store the fire extinguisher and emergency supplies. My current fridge probably won't last too many more years and then I thought a FD model would give me more useable space in front, which is why I'm planning for a larger appliance in that space from the start. bmorepanic's mention of the grocery-to-house pathway brings me to an admission about one of the driving forces of my plan. The grocery arrival path is actually through the sitting room door at the top of the drawing. One of my biggest issues with this house is the traffic flow from the outside to inside. It's a direct collision of three things: a)I live in a region of the country where no matter how formal the house, nobody except dead people in coffins ever uses the front door of farmhouses; b) even if I could manage to change this deeply-ingrained cultural pattern, the classical "front" Greek Revival facade of my house - complete with double door flanked by side and transom lights and appropriately dressed with columns and pilasters - is inaccessible to anyone who arrives by car; and c) it makes me ab-so-lute-ly nuts not to have a distinct, graduated, intimacy progression from outside to inside. This is the one thing (perhaps even more than the non-functional kitchen) which is at the root of this upheaval. I figure since I can't change either the people or the surroundings, the one thing I can change is the pathway they follow. So I've decided to alter the room functions to match my sensibilities; when people approach the house (by the inevitable backdoor entrance) they will find themselves, whether they like it or not, in my public reception rooms, leading to my formal rooms (sitting room, office, etc.). Buried deeper within the house are the rooms I consider more private, like the kitchen. It goes against the modern grain, I know, but to me kitchens are personal workspaces, truly the "heart of my private home", which is not something that I like to share with visitors. And definitely not where I want to entertain casual visitors from the census taker to local politicians stumping for votes to the man who comes to see me about the fencing. Right now the kitchen is the first space inside the house. Meh! It's not like I want to show off to my visitors or them feel uncomfortable - even my "formal" sitting room is very low key and approachable, and relaxed. But I so much want - and need - that step-wise gradation of intimacy, that I'll do anything to get it. I have gone and back and forth and back again weighing this. But in the end I have decided that if I can arrange my rooms to satisfy how I like and still leave the structure largely changed (because it is so old and I don't want to make structural changes), I'm willing to make some sacrifices: such as I'll have to bring the groceries in through the sitting room (actually the current kitchen) to get to my new kitchen. The additional the distance is only about about 6 feet longer (immaterial at a farm where the cars are stored in barns at least fifty feet away, not in attached garages), and it's unlikely it will be embarassing to us to haul the groceries through the sitting room, since we'll be the only ones present while hauling! I will put some more thought into the corner step-in area and see how it can be improved. Your observations are very useful to my planning. I truly appreciate the time and trouble you have taken. I'll post some updated sketches in this thread rather start a new one. May I also say thank you for your kind words about my amateur drawings. I have struggled to the point of tears trying to use computer room planning software. And because so many people who ask for advice have mastered this, until now, I have been too abashed by my lack of skill to post without a computer drawing. Back soon, with another version(s) of the corner pantry area. Anybody else want to put in their two cents? Nancy
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Input on preliminary plan
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If you move the powder room to the mudroom, all your guests who use that powder room will get to see your mudroom. At least in our house, the mudroom is the messiest room of the house and not meant for guests. I'd at least move the pocket door over to the left to the entry of the hallway instead of the end, so that you can close off the mudroom if you have guests, while still making the bathroom accessible. I would hate the playroom being open to the foyer. If I'm working in the sewing room and the kids are playing, I wouldn't want them right next to the front door. I would almost look into extending the BR hallway down and pushing that front bedroom over to meet the bath exterior wall, to accommodate the hallway, placing the door of the playroom in the hallway. It would also work well for the possibility of it being used as a future BR if necessary. Only downside is you will be gaining a few sq ft and I'm not sure how set you are on the current footprint. Great point on the pantry door smacking faces, as well. I'd consider a pocket or barn door there instead.
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chisue
12 years ago
I agree with athensmomof3 -- These elevations yell "Craftsman!". It's not what your BRB wants to see.

I'm sorry, but there is very little I like here. For starters, this fails my 'Family Entrance' test: There's not enough back hall and no powder room near the garage entrance. That whole area is cramped. Your powder room is on the wrong side of the house, snuggled up the the Master Suite. What use is all the area between Garage and House? Must you have steps from Garage to House?

Master Suite: I dislike having to access a closet *through* a bathroom. I don't want a window in a closet; clothing fades. I dislike the MBR entrance(private area) directly off the Great Room (public area). The double doors are dated. I'd want to re-configure the whole bathroom, especially the bum-to-bum vanities and the far-corner toilet room.

Will you have a pool? It's a long trek through the lower level to the bathroom.

I don't see any reason for all the angled walls in this plan. They detract from any classical feeling. The Mediterranean style has so many lovely possibilities. I don't see them here.
padawg
Original Author
12 years ago
It does scream craftsman doesn't it? What do I need to do to French Country it? Arched entry? Arched windows? Shutters? Start all over? Thanks Athensmomof3 for the link! Dekeoboe, toyed with the window in the powder...Chisue, Don't be sorry! Feedback is constructive! No worries! You bring up some fascinating points that I'd never thought of. Guess we are sort of stuck in the middle of trying to have an open plan, convenient for two people without a lot of complication in an area that happens to be in a vineyard setting with a view of a lake. The steps in the garage are the designers artistic whim, as he has no grades to work with yet, he drew them in. Didn't know double doors were dated, what is the current trend? LOL, bum to bums... very good! Pool? Sigh...maybe. Here is a shot of the view we are trying to incorporate into the home.

Our lot is the one with the fire hydrant...Small vineyard just to the left of this shot across the road.

Again, thank you for the feedback! Keep it coming!!
pps7
12 years ago
For the elevation, the's nothing classic about the gable within a gable within a gable. That looks very contemporary( as in post 1990's). To get a more French country feel, I would change the roof to a hipped roof. The columns you have are screaming craftsman. Maybe change them to stained wood beams.

Hipped roof:

Another blog you may find useful is Things that Inspire.
athensmomof3
12 years ago
I think you need to get rid of the columns too. And from looking at the Velvet and Linen pictures, lowering the roof pitch would be helpful to whatever it is on the Patina Farm picture will be helpful. Also, gables within a gable scream cookie cutter subdivision (like where I currently live :)) to me and with that view, you are not building somewhere like that! I would definitely eliminate those.

If you google Mediterranean houses you get a real Spanish influence. Think stucco, red tile roof, etc. I think you can do a modern version of this with a gray roof, white stucco or painted brick, and dark steel colored (or dark sage green colored windows). Keith Summerour (an Atlanta architect) does this sort of thing.

Rather than you trying to redesign the exterior, I would take pictures to the architect and let them see.

Did your architect look at the guidelines?
chisue
12 years ago
ANY architect knows what real French Country looks like. Are you working with a Licenced Architect?

Your lot is GORGEOUS! I'd want to walk in and be led straight through to that view -- not have the cumbersome stairway right at the door. I don't want to know that your MBR is even THERE -- create a hallway or blind entrance.

OK, you know I don't like the plan as drawn; I'd be starting fresh with something much less 'contemporary'. It can still flow, but the interior Great Room/Kitchen look just doesn't do it...for me, for the intended style anyway.

Athensmomof3 and pps7 have provided some nice leads. Yes, you want arches, and some long windows, and a *plain*, soft, single-material exterior (stucco or brick). (I LOVE the doorway on pps7's photo.) You want more overall symmetry. You want some...FRENCH DOORS. LOL

If you don't want 'Frenchy', you could also go more Palladian for a Northern Italian Country look. I'd like to see windows that 'frame' the view, not just Big Windows.
padawg
Original Author
12 years ago
A moment of clarity......... Okay, now that that's over.

We are not working with an architect, instead we are working with a designer. All his drawings have been based upon our ideas, what we've seen, what we have roughly drawn up. The plans that he drew are a culmination of two plans put together and yes, the elevation on one of them was very craftsman, hence the designers craftsman elevation. I was at the end of the line when "vision" was being passed out so it is difficult for me to envision what this may end up looking like. However, I am appreciative of the feedback on this forum.

We are not necessarily looking for a Tuscan home inside and out but are hoping to achieve something that is open, takes advantage of the view, has a relatively small footprint and does not cost a fortune to build.

My wife and I spent hours yesterday looking at homes and can better understand material usage and look, seems like arches, use of stucco and stone, rounded pillars and the like. Right path you think? I guess the thing to do is find a picture or pictures that strike our fancy and take it back to the designer.

Interior... too many windows? How does one frame a view? I guess the feel that I was attempting was one where you felt part of the view, not necessarily looking at the view. The entrance to the master I agree is an issue, perhaps we can create some sort of an alcove that separates it from the guest area of the home. All our home living experiences and homes in this part of the country have a master closet accessed off the bathrooms, very seldom is a closet accessed from a different door off the bedroom so to us, that is not a big deal, nor is the bum to bum in the bathroom. In fact, we toyed with only one vanity to begin with but ruled that out. Square footage is a concern, right now we are at 2,800 feet total, up and down and don't want to go much larger than that, can we create a private entrance into the master without enlarging the house to much? Stairway... not sure I grasp the concept of it being cumbersome, we do not want a stairway leading down to the lower level to be tucked away in a corner which in our minds provides the impression that downstairs is nothing more than an afterthought or an inconvenience to the floor plan, we would like to have it be part of the house itself. Okay, gotta run, work calls... Thanks everyone again for feedback!

97% sure of preliminary house plan!

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97% sure of preliminary house plan!

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