Here's another fan, Claire, tho not in my garden. I couldn't believe it when I saw your post as I was debating about a similar post. Last week, I was in town doing errands and I cut thru an alley. There was the most magnificent pokeberry plant, the size of a large shrub, absolutely laden with berries. Gorgeous!

There it was, a weed and something we'd all pay a pretty penny for except for its bad habit of taking over the garden. I have cut it from time to time to use in flower arrangements indoors (yes, I know it is poisonous). A berry or two must have fallen on the deck when I stripped the foliage and darned if I didn't get my own pokeberry plants the next year--which I quickly removed.

A beautiful native American plant to enjoy in the wild this time of year. Thanks for posting the photos.

It is trying to take over my back yard, along with lots of other aggressive weeds. I stopped weeding momentarily to admire it, and to plot its eradication...........
:)
You know...if I couldn't get it started, I am sure I would love it.
ML

It's interesting, the berries are pretty but I still hate it. There are SO many in my yard and I just can't seem to even make a dent in them. And I have kids and a dog so I worry about poisonous things, too.

Maybe in a few years they will come up with a sterile hybrid...

I have them around the perimeter of my lawn in the "no man's land" between maintained area and jungle. They are pretty, they grow like weeds (so-to-speak), they help shade out other plants, they grow to a set size, they are easy to weed out of the garden as sprouts, and they are annuals. All-in-all not a bad plant to have around.

I have marveled at the sometimes subtle distinction between flower and weed. In my yard I have wild plantains growing right next to my relatively expensive hosta cultivars. One gets yanked and the other gets fertilized. Same for yarrow. If Creeping Charlie would just have the common decency to stay out of the flower beds, I'd be happy to have it take over the lawn, since nothing seems to kill it.

narcnh

narcnh:

As far as I know the rootstock is perennial (and can get huge)- I'll know better next spring when the ones I saved come back or not.

My garden is in a rural area next to woods, and I enjoy many of the "weeds" that wander over. I deliberately stopped mowing some lawn areas and they quickly transformed themselves into white wood aster patches, which are blooming now. For now I leave yarrow, maybe when the garden is better established (it's just a baby now) I'll take them out.

Sumacs are one of my most prevalent "weeds". Poison ivy, of course gets ripped out with overwhelming fury.

Claire

Hi Claire,

It may be that the rootstock is perennial up here; I donÂt know. The tops definitely die back.

I hear you about sumac; the trees grow everywhere, they grow fast, and they are amazingly persistent. I have them under the power line ROW next to my drive from the road to my house. I whacked them all back to the ground this spring, as I have done every spring for three years, since I bought this place. All have re-sprouted from the base and many are almost 10 feet tall already. I would spray Round Up, but it is pretty indiscriminate and I donÂt want to kill everything under the lines, or else the soil will wash onto my drive. IÂve already killed a lot of plants under there spraying for poison ivy (see below).

My other most-hated wild plants/weeds/problems are - as you mentioned  poison ivy, and wild grape. I know wild grapes are eaten by lots of wild critters. But, it grows over EVERYTHING, even 40 and 50 feet up into my pines, spruce and hemlocks, where, if not removed quickly, it kills the needles. It grows fast, spreads like mad, sprouts everywhere, and is very difficult to eradicate. The kudzu of the north. I really hate it. Japanese beetles like it, which is one good thing IÂll say about Japanese beetles.

narcnh

I have a soft spot for pokeberry, and have left alone several that come back every year.
They are tender perennials with hardy roots. The tops die at the first frost, but the plant will thrive for years.

The seedlings are problematic, and if I don't keep up with cutting off the berries before they ripen (a shame, since that's one of the prettiest parts ... the rich purple berries), I pay by spending spring and summer pulling up plantlets that seed everywhere.

The local native peoples used poke berries to make a magenta dye. I tried making it as a kid, and that clinched poke as a way cool plant. As an adult, though, I agree that it may be best enjoyed in the wild unless you maintain it carefully.

When I moved here there were many pokeweed that had clearly been around for years. When I dug out the "root" it was a huge tuber-like thing like a huge sweet potato. Apparently any tiny bit that is left in the ground will regrow. That's too invasive for me.

It's really a shame that pokeberries are so invasive. They are beautiful this time of year and the berries feed many species of birds. When Massachusetts made up its list of invasive species, I think most were non-natives. Here is an example of a native plant that can really be problematic.

Pokeweed is great plant and worthy of a New England garden. True it's not as ornamental as a Rhodie or Mt Laurel, but it does have a somewhat tropical look. I have Pokeweed growing wild on a slope for stabilization, and in my garden as a tall backdrop plant. Viewed from the top down they are very full and lush in appearance. Viewed from on grade they look better behind other plants to hide their stalks.

The best thing about Pokeweed is that it's free and easy to transplant. My best pokeweed are three year old transplants about 8-10 feet tall. I get pokeweeds coming up all over garden as runners and some a seeds, but those are easily controlled or transplanted.

This weekend at a Martha's Vineyard nursery they were selling a "garden worthy" version of Pokeweed. I and my fellow gardeners didn't inquire what made it garden worthy, we just gasped and laughed.

I understand the impulse to tolerate a favorite "weed" specimin. I have plenty that others distain. Just think of them as wildflowers or herbs rather than weeds!

I like them too...those berries really catch the eye this time of year. And the birds love 'em, so I let them grow anywhere but formal bed areas of my yard.

isabella_MA said:

"Viewed from the top down they are very full and lush in appearance. Viewed from on grade they look better behind other plants to hide their stalks."

My favorite view is out a few south-facing windows where the tips of the branches are right outside, and the sun shines through the stalks.

This is my "alley", if you can have an alley in a rural area. There's a retaining wall, a tool shed, a tiny greenhouse and a woody strip, all of which help to block my the view of the neighbor's house and hot tub. This is a good spot to pot up plants and I can leave the hose stretched out without coiling it. It's also a nursery area for little viburnums and self-seeded siberian irises and phlox.

There's a sweet autumn clematis on the retaining wall, and three pokeberries planted themselves right under some of the windows. I just ignored them until suddenly one day I looked out and saw the pokeberries had grown tall enouth so that the flowers were waving in the windows. Now the berries are right outside and a pleasure to see when it's sunny.

And I'll admit it, I just ordered a variegated pokeberry from Plant Delights Nursery.

Claire

Here is a link that might be useful: Variegated Phytolacca americana 'Silberstein'

Don't laugh about "gardenworthy" pokeweeds, Cloud9! I have seen mugwort -- one of the ugliest dang weeds ever to fill a vacant lot -- for sale in "gardenworthy" forms, notably a lemon-yellow/green variegated version!

All I could think, was "mugwort is mugwort, I don't care what pretty colors you package it in!" What the heck are the plant nurseries thinking when they take an unattractive weed and try to "spin" it into something marketable

Variegated mugwort! I googled it and it's pretty! (hee hee hee).

Claire

Here is a link that might be useful: Variegated Mugwort

Sounds like the variegated mugwort is an aggressive beastie, but it still gets a lot of positive ratings.

Claire

Here is a link that might be useful: Artemisia Oriental Limelight

Icky. It's MUGWORT, for cryin' out loud. Dave's Garden mentions that it's a "noxious weed." In my perspective, it's an obnoxious weed. Note that there were 5 negative reviews and 5 neutrals to 5 positive reviews, so it's not an all-around hit. lol

It looks nice and tidy in the photos, but the specimens at the local nursery were tall and floppy like the wild mugwort growing in the parking lot there. The variegation is its only claim to fame.

Okay, so I have my prejudices about plants. Pokeweed gets to hop aboard the garden train, but mugwort can stay behind at the station. Maybe it has a spot in the back of the border behind lots of nicer species...like pokeweed. :^)

You know, I think there should be a rule that you can't rate a plant until you've grown it yourself for five years. Til its true personality shows itself. So many of these things look good in photos...but their true character lies hidden. Lurking, I might even say. I'm a little surprised at Plant Delights promoting pokeberry, variegated or otherwise. And variegated mugwort? Wow.

Agreed.
What's with the crazy trend of trying to variegate everything on Earth? When the growers can't come up with new flower colors, they try to get a variegated leaf. Guess they have gotten variegation into every domestic garden species, so they're taking on weeds next.

Gotta admit, I'm getting tired of all the new variegated things appearing on the garden center tables. I experiment with putting some of them in my plantings, and many -- especially hostas -- are striking and do appear to thrive in the right spots. But variegation is not a healthy condition in plants, and not all species look good as variegated cultivars. It appears to be more of a "I'm doing it because I can" and a marketing scheme too.

What some fail to realize is that once a plant mutates with variegation or even with other characteristics, the newly acquired traits often change the plant in ways which make it more attractive in cultivation, and not strictly in a visual sense. Often variegated versions of invasive plants grow more slowly and are more compact and manageable than their wild counterparts. I too admire the wild poke, although I haven't yet decided to purposely grow it. The variegated form is in my garden as well, and contrary to the wild type, it has grown very slowly and is extremely small. I've always considered it an annual in my area as well, not really bothering to pay close enough attention to any one particular wild plant to see if it actually returned. I'm hoping that if it is perennial, my variegated poke will return next year, but in it's first year it barely reached 10 inches in the exact spot where it's wild relatives in the past have grown to mature size.

Well, this pokeweed we saw was NOT variegated. It looked just like the stuff that I battle. Perhaps it was supposed to be a shorter version? Claire would have to have her face on the ground to see the sun shining through! I have to admit though that I don't and most likely couldn't eradicate all of it from my property. If it has some worth for the wildlife I don't really mind. The ones that I do choose to weed out require not just a tug, or a trowel, but a spade. It gets old very quickly.

I enjoyed EATING pokeweed so much one spring in Arkansas, that I have always wished for a little patch, but haven't seen it much up here, and don't have any in my yard or wild spaces. The early shoots are edible if cooked in a few changes of water, otherwise the plant is toxic. I remember it as being very good.

As for vigorousness of Artemisia Oriental Limelight, I would say WATCH OUT. I have some and ended up digging it all out, collaring the small patch I kept. It runs like crazy. Luckily it's varigation makes it easy to spot when pulling bits of spouted roots from whence dug out.

Yes, that's one exception to the variegated plant rule. Like anything else, if people do their research and know what they're getting into and take approprate precautions, it can make an enjoyable addition to the garden.

Received my variegated pokeberry today (Plant Delights is fast!)

It's a cute, innocent-looking little fellow; almost looks like a bonsai, 8 inches tall with a small berry cluster. I wonder if anyone has tried to bonsai a pokeberry?

I just have to decide where to plant it.

One of the bonuses of ordering this from Plant Delights was that the pokeberry was only $12 and the minimum order is $35. I suppose I could have canceled the order (yeah, right). Instead I went hunting to make the minimum order.

Being in a native frame of mind I had to buy a trillium

Trillium lancifolium

and an aster

Aster oblongifolius 'Fanny.

And my Bluestone order has just been shipped .... frosting on the cake!

Claire

If you or anyone nearby are allergic to ragweed, mugwort is a close relative and can cause the same reaction. In case anyone was wondering!

In case you're not allergic, look at all the fun things you can (allegedly) do with mugwort! lol

When I was in Nepal, I encountered camphor plant (another species of mugwort) all over the place. The hills were alive with the pungent aroma that anyone who has tromped through mugwort is all to aware of. The villagers in the Himalayan foothills (where nights can be chilly) used the camphor leaves to keep moths out of their woolen clothes.

Here is a link that might be useful: fun with mugwort

Okay, hereÂs the reverse situation. Today, while herding chickens, I was idly looking around their enclosure and saw a pretty, purple flower on a short Âweed. Upon closer inspection it turned out to be a butterfly bush. Once alerted to the possibility I checked around and found more than a dozen small plants, many of them blooming or just getting ready to bloom. They must have come from the bushes that I have around my main garden, which are almost 300 feet away. This enclosure is roughly 60 x 75 feet. About a month ago I weed whacked the whole thing, because my old flock of chickens had gone to that great coop in the sky (described in a different thread) and it was turning into a jungle. So, I must have whacked these back, but they came back strong and are even blooming. Now, I didnÂt know that butterfly bushes self-seeded, although it should have been obvious, given all the ones available on eBay. They are probably all over my lawn, too, but I mow them down, so they never get a chance to take off.

So, hereÂs a case where a desirable plant has escaped into the Âwild. IÂll bet that, when I check later on, IÂll find some growing out in the field between the lawn and the cornfields. I hope the ones in the enclosure survive, because they will provide some shade and cover for the chickens next year. And, they are pretty to boot.

Has anyone else had to deal with Âescaped butterfly bushes? How about other flowering plants that are not generally thought of as weeds or as invasive?

cady, when were you in Nepal?

narcnh

Butterfly bush is said to be a really frisky self seeder. I haven't had the problem so far because I deadhead the spent blooms before they seed. This year I didn't keep up so well with the task, so I might find "babies" next year.

Narcnh, I was in Nepal in '88, '89, '90 and '91. I would love to go back, but the government is too unstable. Part of the fun is hiking into the countryside, but with Maoist insurgents, it's not such a good time to go wandering.

Butterfly bush is a MAJOR self seeder in both cultivated and non cultivated areas in my yard. Most years I do deadhead but to be honest it hasn't made a huge difference. Once you can identify it as a sprout it is no more problematic than any other self seeder and although it is prolific it is not difficult to pull. I do love how much it really does attract butterfly's but to be truthful I am beginning to consider it "junk food" in my garden. I also just came across three beauty berry seedlings in a non cultivated area..are they usually a problem? kt

The UCONN hort page lists butterfly bush as invasive, but I haven't found any seedlings yet. I don't have the purple ones though, maybe some are worse than others?

The answer about beauty berry might be found on the UCONN site as well:

Here is a link that might be useful: UCONN hort site

I'm so glad you asked! My SO thinks I'm the only one in the world who thinks they're pretty. When I told him I was going to transplant one that's in my brother's backyard, he thought I'd gone around the bend. (My brother has a magnificient specimen that's growing in his backyard bed that I asked to dig up and transplant this fall. He laughed, and said "take all the weeds you want." I went to visit him the other day, and was commenting on how beautiful the form was, and how goregous the color is. Well, I guess I talked it up a bit too much, because he's changed his mind. : ( Oh, well. Moral of the story--keep it simple. If I had just said, "Hey, would you like me to dig up that weed in your backyard?" it would be in MY backyard now. LOL )

lol
Kelp, the real Moral of the story is, you can market ANYTHING if you talk it up enough!! See if you can sell your brother an old leaky pair of galoshes now. heehee

kelp:

Check next spring, your brother should have lots of cute little baby pokeberries. Much easier to dig and transplant than the big one.

Claire

kelp,

I have somewhere between a bazillion and a gazillion of them growing along my powerline right of way, not to mention the other 0.75 quatroquinzillion around the perimiter of the lawn. You are welcome to as many as you can carry.

narcnh

Cady--Hehheh. I used to be in sales. Actually, I still am. Only now I spend my days talking children into letting me poke them with a needle. (It was easier getting people to part with their hard-earned money.)
Claire--It's been there a couple of years now, but no babies. He says the birds eat the berries right as soon as they turn purple. Do you know if I can plant the berries straight from the bush, or do they have to go through the digestive system of birds first?

kelp:

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that you don't need the bird digestion step since seedlings usually grow near the parents.

I did a quick Google and found a reference that implies you do need a cold step for germination, i.e.

"Phytolacca acinosa, and americana , Sow at 18-22ºC (64-71ºF) for 2-4 wks, move to -4 to +4ºC (24-39ºF) for 4-6 wks, move to 5-12ºC (41-53ºF) for germination"

Maybe a good candidate for wintersowing.

Claire

Here is a link that might be useful: Tom Clothier's database

Thanks, Claire.

I have butterfly bushes growing along the garage in horrible rocky sandy soil. Since they are iffy here as far as hardiness goes, I'm very surprised to see them. I have 'Border Beauty' in my garden and the color of the seedlings look like it. I don't have any from the harliquins or 'Black Knight', so maybe some cultivars are more prolific than others.

I have pokeberries all over and I pull them out of most places except for the edge of the woods. However, I did nurture a large patch of goldenrod thinking it was an aster! Imagine my surpise when it bloomed. It was pretty attractive anyway. But it will be removed soon. So to tag onto this thread-Goldenrod-weed or garden worthy?

You can probably guess my position - OF COURSE goldenrod is garden worthy!

After all, if you can plant a piece of lawn on steroids (AKA ornamental grass) in your garden, you can certainly plant goldenrod. Granted goldenrod isn't very picturesque when it's out of bloom, but neither are most standared perennials.

I've also been nurturing a bunch of plants dug out of a holding area, not knowing if they were asters or goldenrods, but welcoming both. They're FINALLY opening now, asters and goldenrods - fall comes slow here on the coast.

Claire

Hi all, Do you suppose that these plants are trying to fill the void left when the evasive plants list went into effect?

Garden thugs, but garden center sales?

Better than ...........? Poison Ivy, rag weed, purple loosestrife. wild roses,

See you all at the eastern Mass plant swap, I hope

Ron

I work at Heather Gardens, what is probably the nursery on Martha's Vineyard carrying the "garden worthy" variety to which cloud_9 referred. I am responsible for the nursery growing and carrying the plants. We actually have 2 garden forms. 'Variegata' has yellow to chartreuse speckling all over the leaves. 'Silberstein' is almost white with green speckling, a stunning ghost in the garden. Garden worthy plants of all kinds come from what are considered weeds somewhere. Many of our garden asters originated from native species (roadside weeds to some) which were then grown and selected in Europe for color, size, habit, etc, returning "home" as garden worthy.

Hi Vineyarder - Welcome to garden web!

You're certainly right about many "old weeds" being bred into great plants. Aside from asters, sambucus comes to mind as another native that was improved by plant breeders overseas before becoming popular here.

The problem that sometimes arises is when the refined plants produce lots of seedlings that are not gardenworthy. I've seen this with other variegated plants, specifically Ampelopsis (porcelain berry vine). The hybrid form was lovely and, truthfully, it only threw about 4 seedlings over several years. The problem was that the seedlings quickly became rampant, uncontrollable monsters; the only way to prevent the problem was to eradicate the lovely variegated vine as well as all the offspring. Had a similar experience with butterfly bush - although I liked the wild ones enough that I eventually removed the "improved" hybrid parent plant, and just keep a few "wild" seedlings each year.

Vineyarder - Several posts down from the post by me that you site I mention that the plant that I saw was not variegated. (At least it didn't appear so to me or those I pointed it out to) You would have to know how valiantly I have battled against pokeweed in a reclaimed area to appreciate my nervous laughter as I contemplated paying money for a "garden worthy" plant that from outward appearances was no different from my nemesis.

I'm sorry if my post made you defensive. The variegated ones that you describe sound interesting - especially the white one. I appreciate your passion and hope you stick around.

The term "weed" is, I feel, a subjective one. A weed is whatever vexes you I think. I allow and even encourage most "weeds" a moderate expression in my yard for their importance in creating a balanced habitat.

Deb

Poke weed likes disturbed ground. Its spring sprouts are edible while young and less than 12 inches high but larger ones become poisenous. If you like to line dry your laundry, don't when the berries are ripe and being harvested by your feathered friends.

I recently ran into this old thread and I thought it might be of interest at this time when pokeberries are beginning to fruit.

Claire

I don't have any pokeweed growing in my yard. But there is a ton of it down at the cul-de-sac. My daughter and I love to go down there and "pull" the berries off between our fingers. We also do that with rag weed. Then we throw the berries down on the ground and stomp on them!

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