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adiro

Please help me choose ONE of each

adiro
15 years ago

Hello,

I got married this year so I have a small backyard to play with, for the first time. I managed to get so badly into roses, I want more now! I have about 10, in amended clay soil, in more/less part shade all day, under big trees from outside. They are all doing good except a really lame one, called Wild Blue Yonder....

Anyway, I really really want to order some roses from Pickering, for next spring. But I am very limited by space, so I can't have all that I want... I tend to prefer climbing roses, that can be supported vertically and do not take lots of floor space. They also need to be hardy in 5b/6a, I am willing to winter protect to the best of my ability.

So now I'll put down a long list, by color, and please chose for me only one of each group, the one you think performs best.

RED: Illusion

Dublin Bay

That's Jazz ( my fav.)

APRICOT/ORANGE: Crown Princess Margaretta

Westerland

YELLOW: Graham Thomas

Julia Child

PINK: Sweet Chariot

Antique 89

Laguna

NEAR WHITE: Eden

White Cap

St Cecilia

John Davis

Purple: Souvenir de Dr. Jamain

Sorry for such a long fuzzy post, if you have experience with any of these roses in my hardiness area, please let me know... I already did a lot of research in order to narrow my list down, and yes, I want healthy floriferous perfumed hardy roses , if possible....

BTW, most of them will go in the sunniest well lit area of the yard, which is not used yet. they will need to fit there for 1-2 years only, until we buy a home. I plan to take everything when I move, in the future

thank you so much for reading this!

Comments (38)

  • ctreynard
    15 years ago

    I can only tell you about my experience with Julia Child. Great scent, and won't stop flowering. I am in zone 6ish, bought her in zone 5, and the cultivar is planted at Elizabeth Park (hartford, ct--zone 5). I do have her in full sun. GL narrowing down the roses! :)

  • kandaceshirley
    15 years ago

    Westerland has been doing great for me.

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  • adiro
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I'm so excited to get answers! Thank you! That's exactly what I need, to narrow down the list!

    Just to make it clear, this is my short list of what I want, the long one had about 30 roses in it.... I want these all, each is different from the other, but I decided to just have one of each color.

    BTW, I was unable to find many purples that are reliable repeaters, if you have one in mind please let me know... the one I have already ( Wild Blue Yonder)is the worst thing in my garden, mildew, then blackspot to total nakedness, got all the minis in vicinity sick ( but they recouped ) and in spite of spraying, praying and begging, this rose insists on sitting there naked since two month ago... not a new leaf, nothing....

  • estrellabux
    15 years ago

    In any contest between Graham Thomas & Julia Child, the winner, IMHO, has to be be Julia . . .

    As for Dr Jamain . . . I grew him years ago in another zone. He's difficult. Try to find someone in your area who can advise you on this one. The color is VERY variable; moreover, he's not the most robust fellow around . . .

  • Terry Crawford
    15 years ago

    I planted Crown Princess this year and looks to me like she's going to be a big shrub. Her blooms in my Zone 5 were more cream rather than apricot/orange, though. No problems with BS and covered in blooms all summer. I really like her; good choice.
    -terry

  • palomalou
    15 years ago

    We put in Julia Child this summer, later than probably ideal. After she went in, covered w/ blooms, they all died (as expected) and I dead=headed. Nothing at all happened for over a month, but now she's about to have another dozen blooms.

  • katefisher
    15 years ago

    A few thoughts:

    The first is for your pink category namely Mevrouw Nathalie Naples. My husband bought this for me this spring and I have just fallen in love with it. A smallish rose that has bloomed like mad since June. So far a very small, compact habit that at least so far is a clean grower. Link below.

    I have enjoyed Crown Princess Margareta in my garden this year. New as a bareroot it is a good grower that can become a climber (in case you were unaware). I like it but the color is kind of washed out so far and I detect very little scent.

    Julia Child is a definite winner. I bought mine as a potted rose this spring and its been great.

    Hope this helps.

    Kate

    Here is a link that might be useful: Mevrouw Nathalie Naples

  • roses_more_roses
    15 years ago

    I don't think you can go wrong with Julia Child! I also planted Crown Princess Margareta this year, and although it is very new disease hasn't been a problem. The color has varied, but like posted above, much more cream, or light apricot. I am trying to train it as a climber, but it may be better as a shrub.
    Diana

  • lilgreenfrog
    15 years ago

    The only one of these that I grow is Graham Thomas. I love the bloom form, and its almost always blooming. However, it is rarely what I would classify as "yellow". When the buds first open they are an apricot color, and they fade to a creamy peach.
    My bush is only in its second season, and last year I did winter protect, and had no dieback. Also, I believe this one can throw very tall canes (I think that's a thing of the Austins), and could possibly be coerced into a climbing habit. Don't know how full it would be though.

    Also, you asked about purplish plants; I grow burgundy iceberg, which is very hard and healthy and always blooming. It ranges from burgundy to dark fuschia. Its blossoms don't last long when its hot, but it makes a lot of them! Also,
    Lavender Crystal is a pretty true lavender mini that's hardy here, and has a nice scent.

    Happy rosing!

    Lara

  • adiro
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Sorry to fill up the forum with my own answers, but Thank You for answering! You know, maybe you remember, from your beginning on the forums, when you were anxiously waiting for answers... that's me, now.

    Uh, so the orange/apricot is not easy to eliminate, on Crown Princess Margareta, on my list is "MUST GET IT", because I just liked the flower shape so much... Westerland, I'm obsessing over it since forever, when I saw somebody's picture here, trained on a beautiful arch..

    Yellow: Julia Child is the winner!

    Pink: Still dont know... Kate, your rose is so pretty, but I need something that Pickering has...

    Purple: so sad that Dr Jamain is not what I thought... I need a rose that want's to be alive...so I still need input

    Red?

    Pink?

    White or near white?

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    15 years ago

    I grow Dublin Bay and love it (as you might guess from my user name). It gets a couple hours of light shade in the afternoon, but is basically in a very sunshiny location for at least 6 hours a day. Can you provide at least that much sun? I have the impression that it likes some good sun exposure. It has pretty good disease-resistance for me.

    The only drawback I know in your case is that Dublin Bay may not be hardy to Zone 5.

    Don't grow the other reds, so can't comment on them.

    Good luck. Searching for the perfect rose is sometimes half the fun!

    Kate

  • harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania
    15 years ago

    I would not call Sweet Chariot pink. It is more purple/red here. It is very hardy here. I have overwintered it in an unprotected pot.

    Westerland grows well here and is trained as a climber. Its color may begin orange although it normally fades to a pleasing salmon/yellow blend.

    {{gwi:259092}}

    {{gwi:221199}}

  • kandaceshirley
    15 years ago

    my crown princess margaret really isnt' the color I"d thought it be...i do have quite a few of the orange/apricotish color roses - they seem to be my favorite, so besides pickering and zone friendly what exactly are your rose selling points (bloom form, smell, rebloom??)

    the white I hear is the one to get is pope john paul, but that's not pickering

    for pink - I'd go with a buck rose - I have been so impressed by my prairie breeze this year, it's continually flowering and the flowers have an almost translucent quality to them, but he's not one of the ones you had on your list...see this is why my list is sooo long

    the purple i'll be waiting to see what everyone recommends

  • athenainwi
    15 years ago

    My favorite purple is The Prince. It is a smaller Austin rose with red-purple blooms that smell good and last a few days in a vase. Burgundy Iceberg is great too and blooms a lot and has great burgundy-red-purple color, but not much scent and doesn't last when cut. It does bloom a ton though so I'm actually getting a second one for the front of the house. Ebb Tide is also good and has a lovely color. Most people say it is scented but I can't smell much from mine.

    For a red climber you should look at Quadra. I bought mine this spring from Palatine and it's already three feet tall and reblooms. It is supposed to be quite winter hardy. I've got John Cabot as a pink climber (John Davis on your list is similar and is light pink, not white). It is very vigorous and suffers no winter dieback at all so it gets large fast. But it doesn't rebloom much.

    Westerland didn't do well for me. It lost a lot of cane to winter kill. But I'm a zone colder than you so yours might do better.

  • adiro
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    OMG, Harry, your Westerland is what I want to have!!!!! It's one of my dream roses!!!!

    Kanditaft, yes, I love apricot too! It must be my fav, and on the question of preference, rebloom , perfume and hardiness are most important. I love the shape that Austins have, that's why I have a couple on my list... Health is as well, but I don't mind treating should I have too....

    Lara, thank you for the ideas! I can't have that many aricots, now after your post Graham Thomas is back on cometition with Princess Margareta... because for yellow Julia Child must stay, I just read too many posts about how great this rose is.... and thank you so much for suggesting the Burgundy Iceberg, Pickering has it and I love the way he looks! Sadly, it seems disease prone ( on the comments there)

    Red: Dublin Bay , thank you for answering... I will provide sun, on the south side of the house... that's where they will all grow. It's a narrow strip of yard that you cannot see unless you walk around the townhouse, but who cares, I just want to grow roses and I will go visit them there and enjoy every day! I am scared of Dublin Bay not being hardy enough though.... I wish somebody from zone 4!!! would come and tell me it is, so that my zone 5 wouldn't be a problem.

    Sweet Chariot: seems to be magenta pink and fragrant and full of energy!

    I'm still enjoying so much your contributions, please keep them coming if you have a minute, thank you all!!!!!

  • lilgreenfrog
    15 years ago

    HarryShoe: Wow! What a great rose! I have that on my list, and will be bumping it up.

    Adiro; what disease issues were people having on burgundy Iceberg? My area is pretty dry, so I don't have black spot or mildew pressure to speak of. However, last year when the spider mites all but dug up my Chigago Peace and carried it away, BI wasn't bothered in the least, despite having 3 neighboring plants with infestations (one of which was TOUCHING the BI). Anyway, hope that helps!

    Oh, also, not to confuse things, but New Dawn is supposed to be a good pink climber for our zone.

    Lara

  • bbinpa
    15 years ago

    I can tell you for sure that Graham Thomas will get black spot if you don't have a spray routine of fungicides. So will Mevrouw Nathalie Naples. I have both and they are beautiful if you spray to prevent blackspot. Otherwise they lose all their leaves.

    Barbara

  • nicole__
    15 years ago

    I am in zone 5a. I grow eden, but I would say she is a pink blend. She only blooms twice, one big flush in the spring, a sparser flush in the fall. She smells divine! Hangs her head her flowers are soooooooooo heavy! But my eden isn't really all that tall, maybe 4'. She is a climber, just not climbing.

    That being said, I grow Wild Blue Yonder and it does well for me. Same as Eden, 2 flushes. It's tall and skinny fighting for light where I have her planted, no BS or mildew.....ever.

    Eden
    {{gwi:305973}}

  • adiro
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    So glad to get your help!!!

    Athenainwi, so sad to see Westerland wasn't good for you... but thank you for Quadra suggestion! I will look into that, the links I've found are pretty! How is the rebloom and fragrance on it?

    Nicole, I love your Eden! I have to have one, it must be the most romantic looking rose I've ever seen!

    Barbara, thank you for info, I'll take Graham Thomas off the list, I'm afraid I lack in discipline...

    And now, to be off-topic on my own subject: I purchased a reduced rose from Home Depot, about a month ago. Mildewed and with the main canes broken, but I hoped it would be red. It's called " Morning Red", it's not registered on HelpMeFind. It promptly started growing when I put her in the ground, and soon gave me blooms. They're past now, but she started new growth again, poor thing. The flowers look orange red when just open, quickly fade to pink, and a week later to almost white.... could it be a mislabeled Westerland, maybe ? Here is the picture, oh, it's fragrant too:
    {{gwi:328385}}

    And now my revised list:
    Westerland,
    Crown Princess Margaretta
    Burgundy Iceberg ( people say "it blackspots badly, like the rest of the Iceberg family")
    Julia Child
    Eden
    New Dawn(maybe?)
    Quadra ( maybe?)

    I"ll take the B. Iceberg for purple, seems like it is able to flower lots!( I am not interested in cutting roses, I don't have the heart to cut them...)

    I'm still wishing for suggestions on a good hardy perfumed re-blooming red climber, if possible...

    and off course, anything else you might add

    Thank you all !!!

  • athenainwi
    15 years ago

    Quadra doesn't have much of a scent, but it does have decent rebloom - at least for me in the first year. The hardiest climbers aren't scented, unfortunately.

    Burgundy Iceberg doesn't have any disease issues for me. I spray, but infrequently enough that the really bad roses will still get blackspot. For instance, Intrigue loses all its leaves under my spray program which is why I don't recommend that one.

    I'm not sure what your Home Depot rose is, but it isn't Westerland. Westerland is more orange with fewer petals than that.

  • lydia_s
    15 years ago

    I'm in zone 5. I grew Souvenir du Dr. Jamain (from Pickering) years ago & it was a wonderful,velvety, fragrant, burgundy coloured rose. A friend got it on my recommenation & she loved it as well. Mine didn't rebloom, her's did. Strange as they were from the same source. Still it was worth growing. Crown Princess Margareta does very well here as well, regardless of weather. Coral Dawn, which is actually pink does very well here with little care. I don't spray.

  • diggerb2
    15 years ago

    i'm in zone 5/6 in NE Ohio gardening in amended clay. i had julia its first year out in my bestest spot. she bloomed and bloomed and bloomed. she didn't make it thru the winter.
    the next year i had a new julia in my second best spot. she bloomed and bloomed and almost made it thru the winter, but gave up the ghost when hit with 6" of snow after 2 weeks
    a 50-60 degree weather. this year i put her in a big container and she bloomed and bloomed and bloomed. i'll let you know if she makes it thru the winter. i'll be thrilled if she does.

    diggerb

  • adiro
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    THank you so much for all your help!!! I am still fussing over what do I order, it's like a permit to daydream for me. I am sad enough now, that just when my current roses were blooming again, we got a week of rain rain rain and they are all muddy and shattered...

    BTW, I want to add Hot Cocoa to my order, I've seen some pics and she is stunning!

    and one more q., I know there has been a recent question on this, but: anybody could tell me a little about "Awakening", vs "New Dawn"?

  • artemis_pa
    15 years ago

    I have Julia Child and love her. I SP'd Burgundy Iceberg. Too lanky, the blooms don't last and it was a mess. I like Outta The Blue. Have you considered any Bucks? I get mine from Roses Unlimited and Chamblee's. They are own root, arrive many times already in bloom. I have Blue Skies on order from RU. Also the climber Viking Queen. My favorite white is Moondance...always in bloom, not too shrubby and smells great.

  • greenhaven
    15 years ago

    Late again, sorry! Just been crazy busy.

    I want to recommend Pope John Paul II for a white rose...it is strong, healthy, extremely vigorous. The blooms are a perfect white with a heavenly (pun not intended!!) scent. I love mine. I planted it this year as a potted rose, and it is nearly four feet tall and getting ready to pop another flush. Hopefully the beetles won;t get this flush!

    But the blooms last very well indoors, too. Hardly a spot of blackspot anywhere on this plant, and I didn't spray anyhting this year. I do have some roses that are naked from blackspot. Not this one!!!

    Here is a link that might be useful: PJPII at HMF

  • geo_7a
    15 years ago

    As this is a multiple choice exam:

    a

    b

    b

    c

    trick question-none of the above

  • jim_w_ny
    15 years ago

    As you may have noticed I'm into Kordes roses. They are little known on this site so I tend to skip over posts asking for recommendations since anything I suggest is apt fo be over whelmed.

    The reason I love Kordes is my experience with them. Which has been generally good while my experience wiith other breeders not so good. For example despite the great popularity of Austin roses all 9 I've tried are dead. And others from Meilland, Poulsen and others. But I have a challenging soil mostly because in many areas it is shallow.

    So on your list Illusion is a good rose as is Westerland but less vigorous. Rosarium Uetersen is a great rose. A short climber with a wonderous color and form, prolific bloom and great foliage. Robusta is a brilliant red that blooms all the time. Big so would need to be pruned which is good as it tends to get lanky when left alone. A real favorite is a little known floribunda, Eutin. Still blooming, no BS and even JB's don't touch it. Beautiful foliage could almost be grown for that alone. Doesn't mind my soil as a matter of fact prospers in it. Some other ones that aree always in bloom are Elmshorn and Elveshorn.

    Just a few of my 60 or so K's.

    American nurseries carry few Kordes so I now order mostly from Pickering or Hortico. Palatine gets good reviews here although I haven't tried them yet.

    A final note on K's. They among the big rose growers are apt to consider hardiness as a important trait in the roses they introduce. Kordes critics will probaly point out that fragrance is not high on their list which is partly true.

  • carla17
    15 years ago

    My Crown Princess Margareta is NOT orange. If you want orange, Westerland is the way to go, it's beautiful.
    I would choose Julia Child over Graham Thomas. I've heard great reviews on JC.

    Carla

  • prairielaura
    15 years ago

    Jim in W NY, I second your vote for Eutin. That is a GREAT floribunda, and it is in fact difficult to find. But interesting that it performs well from NY to TX. Mine get about four feet square when they are happy, and they cover themselves with bouquets of fragrant dark red blooms. Only thing that hurts them is lack of water. Hard to weed around them, though, for the thorns. I think Eutin ought to be used instead of the Knockout craze...prettier, more abundant blooms, and same ease of care, plus perfume.

  • rosysunnygirl
    15 years ago

    Well Adiro, since you asked for other suggestions...

    For the yellow, add me to Julia's list of fans. She's had no love this summer and no regular feeding, but she's performed and performed and is healthy, too. Rarely out of bloom. Great little rose.

    CPM is a good rose, too. She was apricot for me early in the season, when it was cool. Most of the time, she's creamy colored, with tinges of apricot. But she's also in full sun all day, so if you put her in the shade a bit, the color may change. I'd suggest Prairie Sunrise as a nice apricot with that flower shape. Very healthy, nice smell and definitely apricot.

    Not familiar with any of your pink choices (other than Eden, who was SP'd), but I think that Dainty Bess is one of the prettiest pink roses in the garden. She even smells nice, and despite being girly-girl pretty, isn't high maintenance. If you're not into singles, Comte de Chambord is super-smelly and always in bloom (though it does crud up a little bit and can get BS). Also nice smelling and everblooming: Belinda's Dream (and this is a super-tough rose that cuts real nice, too). Even when she gets BS, she shakes it off and keeps on pumping out the blooms like she doesn't even notice.

    For white, would you consider an old rose? There's the reblooming and wonderful smelling Boule de Neige... Full Sail smells nice, too, if you're already planning to spray.

    For red, the only repeater I grow (and can speak on) is Chrysler Imperial. I've been very impressed by the deep, velvety color, the intoxicating smell and the health. I rarely grow doubles of anything, but if I had an extra bed somewhere, CI would be filling half of it. Highly recommend. It's also nice to cut. But, it is also pretty common...

    Hope this doesn't veer too far off your list!

  • mysteryrose
    15 years ago

    I grow Laguna and love it. It's winter hardy in zone 5 and is an interesting deep magenta pink, almost red. Nice scent too.
    John Davis is a great rose, but it is a medium pink, not white. It's gets tall if trained on a pillar--five or six feet--and four feet wide. It has only mild scent but reblooms nicely in its third year if well fed.
    You might also consider Cape Diamond, another pink,a new,winter hardy shrub rose, reportedly with some scent. Pickering carries it now, I believe.

  • kandaceshirley
    15 years ago

    Another orange that you might consider is sweet fragrance - while i've been battling bs/mildews/fungals on my other roses this year, sweet fragrance hasn't been touched. I've noticed it's a lighter apricot with an almost luminscent quality during the summer and a very pretty orange in the fall and it always smells divine.

  • kandaceshirley
    15 years ago

    Here's some pics of sweet fragrance
    {{gwi:328386}}

    {{gwi:328387}}

    {{gwi:328388}}

    if you notice there's just a hint of yellow at the base and edges of the petals

    hi my name's kandi and i am a roseaholic

  • carla17
    15 years ago

    Kandi, those photos are so beautiful. Such a pretty shade of orange, sorta like sherbet.

    Carla

  • kandaceshirley
    15 years ago

    thank-you...it's one that wasn't on my wish list originally and then i walked by it in the nursery and smelled it, so it just jumped in my cart...it's in the sunrise garden and in the sun it's so translucent it's very close to the actual color of the sunrise...hope everyone forgives the blurriness of the last pic, i just wanted her to be able to get an idea of the yellow edging

  • adiro
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    OMG, you people twist my mind! Thank you for so many replies! I am skipping the forum for three days and now I find 35 replies and pictures! Thank you!
    but....
    You know what?>

    I went ahead and I placed my order! I was itching to order, as I've never done it online! I ordered two days ago, and I got 8 roses, not five how I decided initially!

    I got: Westerland, Crown Princess Margaretta,Illusion, Rosarium Uetersen, Lavender Lassie ( because I saw somebody's amazing picture somewhere here on the forum) Julia Child ( see, I am listening) Souvenir de Dr. Jamain ( sorry, I almost got the Ebb Tide, then the Prince, then I decided to turn back to my initial gut feeling) and Hot Cooca, because I really thought the color is amazing....

    oh well, I don't know where I am gonna put them all ( small townhouse backyard) as I already have other 10 roses....and I am sharing my backyard with my doberman... But some of my current roses might die over the winter

    Yeah, I think I have some Kordes among the ones I just ordered...

    I am so excited! I decided on spring delivery ( April 17) I hope it's not too late or too early in my zone!

    btw, I didn't get Laguna and now I'm really really sorry...
    Kandituft, your rose is gorgeous!!!!!

  • kandaceshirley
    15 years ago

    thanks - I've been proscratinating on getting my orders in...I just have too many to decide from and every day my list gets longer and longer. But unfortunately, while my list may be getting bigger, my yard is definately not getting bigger. But DH suggested I start planting on the corners on main street or at the nursing home and then I expand my roses even more after we run out of room. The guy must really love me or he's just trying to preserve what's left of his lawn;)

  • onewheeler
    15 years ago

    You should have gotten Laguna. It is one of the healthiest roses in my little garden. It is a big shrub though so perhaps you don't have room but if you want a constant pretty, healthy and hardy rose this one would be a good choice. Perhaps you can add it to your original order. Also Crown Princess was a rose I had in another garden, I just had to replace her when I moved, another favorite of mine. I will also vouche for Quadra as being a beautiful big red rose that performs well.

    Good luck with the roses.