Hi Jim,

I helped landscape a renewal project for a historical rose garden. Our climate is cool and moist in the spring, where pm is a great problem and Blackspot in the warmer summer months. I'd still reccomend you check out these roses in your area in person. But it may be a good start.

Because a rose per decade is one of the highest maintenence plans. I would suggest a historical scheme based on the Noisette class because:
-it is the only class of rose that was created in the United States. Bred by John Champneys, the rose in commerce sold as 'Champneys Pink Cluster' is one of the finest Noisettes I've every seen, it has poise of bloom, and character in its hue, of cream edged with pink. It does re-bloom, here late through October.
'Lamarque' also has long roots in the South.
St. Leonards is the most elegant white Noisette I've ever seen, among dozens of that class.
I go to local heritage rose gardens in the autumn to check foliage health, because the leaves have had plenty of time to spread foliage disease.
These thrive in our local no-spray public rose garden, where p.m. is the biggest threat, and blackspot the second most common rose disease. I've only listed the ones that survived the trial period, a few H.P.s died from rust that arn't mentioned.
-1-3 climbing roses or tall bush NOisettes in the back will add vertical interest. Lamarque will need an arbor or rebar, crepescule can be grown as a 6-7' tall shrub. Here is a rough idea.
Back row tallest roses, could also have a row in the very back of R. moschata to show the musk that the NOisette class is derived from.

Lamarque Crepescule Lamarque
(vintagegardens)

Pathway
row of tall Noisettes.

St. Leonards Champneys Pink cluster St Leonards
v.g. hortico or v.g. (or other tall white)

Pathway

Mme. Berkeley Souv. Soupert et Notting' 'Mrs. B.r.cant"
v.g. v.g. v.g.

Pathway
'La Nymph' 'Secret Garden Noisette" "Nastarana'
v.g. v.g. hortico.com

Pathway

Sydonie
hortico Baronne Prevost' 'Mrs. John Laing' Sydonie
on r. mult hortico hortico

Pathway
S.D.L.M. and Pauls Eary Blush in trios
hortico hortico

Buying a few roses for the front of the garden on rootstock will give a fast impact, with the others catching up in a year or two.

Luxrosa

Nastarana, Baronne Prevost, Mrs. John Laing would not be suited to a public garden here in SE Virginia. Almost no flowers, and certainly no leaves. There's a public rose garden in Wilson, NC that has attempted a historic rose section-- but they did not stick to roses suited to the climate with its humidity and lack of winter chill. That section is a total failure. The rest of the garden is great tho! I think they're Z7 also. (I work in a public garden and have spent a year tearing out a whole bunch of OGR's which failed-- Bourbons, Gallicas, Damasks and Albas. They have been replaced with Polyanthas, Noisettes, Teas and Chinas. A world of difference!)

Virginiana and Virginiana Plena also

And, not to belabor the point, Old Blush - particularly if you want to tell the story of the noisettes!
Anita

I am certainly appreciating all the comments and suggestions. I have put together a tentative list of roses that I intend to plant in this project. These are roses that are doing well for me (3 miles from the new project site). These roses are all growing in my yard and look pretty good most of the time.

Apothecary's Rose
Alba Semi=plena
Rosa Mundi
Shailer's Provence, Great Maiden's Blush
R. virginiana, Champney's Pink Cluster
R. Setigera, R. roxburghii, Old Blush, The Bishop
Lea, Amadis, Ispahan
Jaune Desprez, Mme Hardy, Felictie Parmentier
Cardinal d Richeliue, Sydonie
Duchesse de Brabant, General Kleber, Henri Martin
Boule de Neige
Coquette des Blanches
Mlle. Cecile Brunner, Perle d'Or
Monseiur Tillier, Amy Robespart
Tausendshon
Moonlight, Lady Hillingdon, Etoile de Lyon, Safrano
Albertine, Rose-Marie Viaud
Awakening
Aloha
White Cap
Viking Queen
Compassion
Cymbaline
Knockout
Leontine Gervais, Alberic Barbier, Francois Juranville, Alexandre Gervais, Paul Transon, Renee Danielle
Sarah van Fleet, Therese Bugnet, Sir Thomas Lipton
R. primula
Crepuscule, Reve d'Or
Darlow's Enigma
Mutabilis
Charles de Mills
Hippolyte
Souvenire de la Malmaison

I'll add more as I get suggestions.

Thanks, Robert

I don't know precisely where you live, but we're in Providence Forge and the list I gave you was the "best of the best" in our yard. We're probably closer together than other posters here......

Bobkat,

I'm in King William...which is about 40 minutes east of downtown Richmond.

I haven't had any luck yet with Prosperity or Marie Pavie. Perhaps they are not in the best spots or they need more time.

My The Fairy got deliberately sprayed with Roundup this summer. It would consistently set hundreds of flower buds which would ALL shrivel and dry up way before opening. So I don't have a good clone of that.

I don't have the Green Rose or Cherokee Rose...yet.

I am rooting Louis Phillipe as I type this.

I may consider Kathleen, but I'm leaning toward a few other hybrid musks (Darlow's Enigma, Buff Beauty, Lyda Rose, Moonlight, etc.)

It looks as though you're really close to me. How close are you to West Point? Perhaps we could visit each other's gardens?

I appreciate your suggestions. Robert

My veterinarian is just outside West Point (Tri County Animal Hospital). I take 249 to 33 (or is is 30?) to get there. About 20 miles, I guess. You can visit my garden, but I can't visit yours - right at the moment I'm in Nairobi, Kenya!!

My husband had to attend a conference in DC this past week, so he's had a chance to check up on our roses while back in the USA. I'd love to visit your garden, and others of fellow GardenWebbers once we retire back to the USA in 2013.

email me at bobkat1991@msn.com for my address - you have my permission to go into my garden and take cuttings for rooting from any rose you see in there, OK?

My husband built a historical Rose Study Garden for us, and it takes a lot more space than you have. His choices were the more significant roses -the older roses in the classes that led to the most and more signficant offspring.
We also have a rose species garden that reflects a lot of the rose species from around the world.

Were I doing this in a public area, I'd go species only. They are stronger, their leaves are more interesting and there is a lot more inherent disease resistance that in a collection of modern roses. Modern roses are divas.

Some comments on the above:

Even though Graham Stuart Thomas wrote that Champney's Pink doesn't repeat, he was wrong. Unfortunately what he wrote has been quoted as fact without referencing him. All the CP sold in North America repeat.

R.roxburgii, the double and older (described in literature earlier) form repeats well.

R. virginiana rather oddly doesn't have a natural range that extends into Virginia- it barely makes it to the eastern shore. It is a colder northeastern rose.

The soils in the area you plant to plant in are going to be important with the modern roses (past two centuries). If the soils and moisture are good for Hybrid Perpetuals and early HTs, they won't be good for Teas, Noisettea and Chinas.

And, breaking mold, I'd plant a cherry tree that was appropriate to George Washington's childhood and surround it with roses from that time. They were strong, and were useful.

The problem with having an all rose garden is that any potential pest will find one plant it likes and from there it will spread.
Cothran's Ante Bellum Historic Plants book is full of suggestions of what other plants might be added; combine that with Harper's Thirty Years in a Garden (from your part of the world) and your success rate would improve.

We visited a rose collection in Wyoming where there was an attempt to produce cold hard roses. Over four hundred roses were sent there sixty years ago. In the growing field three remain, two species and one species cross.

R.roxburgii, the double and older (described in literature earlier) form repeats well.

*** And to bolster Ann's suggestion on R.roxburghii, it has been the ONLY
long-term-surviving rose in most of the really old gardens we've visited
in the S.E.
Whatever kills old neglected roses in tough areas doesn't seem to bother
Chestnut Rose one whit.
Moreover, it's got those nifty fuzzy buds, which really are fascinating.

Jeri

And another comment on R. roxburghii plena - I tell visitors on my tours that it is a once-bloomer, with a bloom period from May into November. Once it starts blooming for us, it never stops. Simply a lovely rose.

And I have to mention sweet briar/eglantine one more time - Jefferson grew it, Shakespeare knew it, I love it.

Robert, I hope you are taking before, during and after pictures. This is such a good project!
Anita

Ann,

Roses are really just a part of the overall project. I am currently propagating from my yard MANY different kinds of plants that do well here with near total negligence. I also hope that the project will extend to an additional semi-enclosed courtyard area. There seems to be a significant amount of area that could handle some rather large species roses as well. Before I extend to those areas, however, I would like to create a little "Eden" if you will.

The roses that I'm planning to use are those of my 600+ different varieties that seem to be doing the absolute best as well.

The focus is much more of a diversity of roses and plants rather than an actual history of the rose. I'm hoping the history teachers can take their students out to this site, and use the dates on the rose labels as a kickstart to talking about historic events that occured at that time. The rose would be a symbol of the time, sort of.

I'm appreciating all the comments immensely.

Hi Robert,

How about getting the students involved in this project? When I was in HS, admittedly a long time ago, the Future Farmers of America would propagate plants to sell as a fundraiser. If this organization exists at your school, why not get them involved in the propagation of the plants? Any extras they could sell to fund other supplies. I am not sure how you plan to lay this out, but if it is chronologically, you could solicit help from the Art students to construct "historical markers" along the timeline to demonstrate the major events in history. That way, the history lessons would not be limited to the history teacher taking the students into the courtyard, but all who pass through the garden would get a history lesson.

Just my 2¢

Kathy

Kathy,

I hope to get the kids involved. But, since I'm rather new to the school, I haven't connected with everyone yet, so that will be down the road.

I'm not planning on laying this out chronologically.

I do like the idea of having history lesson markers...I'll connect with the history teacher about this too.

R

I am reviving this thread to provide an exciting update.

I've been working diligently preparing the site for a rose garden in a totally enclosed courtyard at the high school where I teach. With the help of a few students we mulched the area with about 20 yards of mulch (going through the school hallway with a wheelbarrow) and installed a small water feature. I planted a collection of Barbier ramblers to cover the brick walls surrounding the courtyard. I had also begun planting some of the roses I had propagated last summer as well as some of the roses that were donated to this endeavor.

Yesterday I received a grant for a proposal I submitted for a project involving the extraction and analysis of rose attar from antique roses. The proposal included the purchase of about 60+ antique roses and the equipment needed to extract and analyze the attar. This will be done by my high school chemistry kids (that's the plan, anyhow). So, a few moments ago, I placed the first order for damasks, albas, gallicas, centifolias, and moss roses from Pickering (hoping that the roses grafted on multiflora will give a considerable head start. The roses were selected based on fragrance mostly. I think my order included 45 roses from Pickering.

I'm saving some of the grant money earmarked for roses to see what Vintage has coming in its "not before offered" list.

I'll also add about a dozen Teas to get some fall interest.

Although the original proposal for this project was a literary/historical garden, I did not receive that grant, but I submitted another grant more science related.

Needless to say I'm thrilled.

I've got one more proposal out there, and I'm hoping I get that one too!

If it seems like I'm patting myself on the back, I probably am.

Robert

Congrats, Robert!!! And how wonderful to have incoming funds to plant roses.

Robert, I am so excited and proud of you!!!!!

I have been meaning to ask you for a status update. I don't think I have ever scrolled down a message thread as fast as I just did to see the most recent update.

Congratulations, I can't wait to get more details.

Kathy

That's wonderful, Robert! I really admire your energy and persistence. When you have time, could we see some pix of the work-in-progress? Or maybe you would rather wait until everything has had a chance to mature a bit?

Hurray for grants! Hurray for roses! Hurray for inspiring teachers!

Laura

What an exciting (research) project you have there, congratulations!

If perfumed OGrs and older classics are also wanted, how about the following (non-damasks/gallicas)

Rose du Roi (historically important rose - the clear red coloring of modern reds came through this one)
Rose du Roi a Fleurs Pourpres/Mogador
Gloire de Ducher
Souvenir du Docteur (Doctor) Jamain
Vick's Caprice, super bloomer also in NC, some perfume, resonably healthy
SDLM, of course
Variegata di Bologna (for some cool stripes)
La Reine (was always in bloom for me in NC, z7b)
Mme Pierre Oger (ditto)
Blairii No. 2 (once bloomer)
Rose de Rescht (reliable repeater, needs good pruning in winter)
Captain Christy (also as climber)
La France for (nearly) first HT
Comte de Chambord (extremely powerful perfume, always in bloom in NC and in England)
Jacques Cartier (good bloomer, good perfume, very healthy even in NC)
Sophie's Perpetual (China hybrid with very strong and sweet perfume, blooms that darken from the margins under light, super performer)
Baronne Prevost for good spring bloom only (in NC) and superb perfume but very BS prone
Frau Karl Druschki
Paul Neyron
Mrs John Laing
Roseraie de l'Hay (superbly perfumed rugosa)
Catherine Mermet
Buff Beauty
Felicia
Penelope
Mme Jules Bouche
Ophelia/Lady Sylvia/Mme Butterfly

For climbers/large shrubs if there's any use for them:
Mme Caroline Testout
Paul Lede
Mme Berard
Mme Jules Graveraux
Ghislaine de Feligonde
Sombreuil
Clair Matin
Gruss an Teplitz or Etoile de Hollande
Ophelia/Lady Syliva/Mme Butterfly (CL)
Altissimo (gorgeous Chinese lacquer red with yellow stamens single, super bloomer)

As to gallicas and damasks etc, I've never grown them in NC, but I've seen terrific ones here in southeast England close to where I live (Cambridge z8!) in a public garden, and they did really well there. We only get little frost during winter, less than in NC, I'd say (hence z8). The ones remember being very impressive were:

Belle Isis
Ville de Bruxelles
Marie Louise
Charles de Mills
Tour de Malakoff
Queen of Denmark
Tuscany Superb
La Belle Sultane
Ispahan
Mme Hardy
Duchesse de Montebello
Belle de Crecy
Cardinal de Richelieu
Camayeux - more cool stripes

And then of course there are the English roses! They've always done superbly for me in NC and in England - you should give them a try.

Good luck with all of this, and keep us posted!

Andrea

Sounds like a wonderful idea!
My little contribution is not even rose related. I have read that Thomas Jefferson grew the "Climbing Shell Vine" or Vigna Caracalla. There is a place you can buy them for under 5 bucks....www.HouseOfWesley.com.

Also, the Kwanzan Cherry (not Yoshino) are the Cherry trees given to us from Japan's Government and are planted en mass in Wash. DC. They are the most beautiful trees and bloom in May in Z7. (??not sure of blooming time in your zone) Interesting to note: Historically, it was illegal for anyone other than the Emperor to own a Kwanzan Cherry tree and was a capital offense in the ancient orient. They have Kwanzan Cherries by the car loads for sale at Lowe's here in the South, but you can get them online really cheap at DirectGardening.com We have had one since the 60s and they are tough as nails and possibly the most beautiful flowering tree I've ever witnessed at their peak bloom time. I've also heard they are super easy to propagate from soft-wood cuttings, but I haven't tried it myself.
Best of luck in your endeavor.
Michelle

Thanks everyone.

The focus of this project has changed significantly because I did NOT get the grant for the literary/historical garden but I DID get the grant to extract rose of attar from roses. So, the majority of the roses are selected based on the following criteria

1. Health: this will be a totally NON spray endeavor
2. Fragrance: roses noted for their fragrance were selected
3. Historically significance

Here is the list of roses so far. Feel free to let me know whether any of these does not meet the criteria:

Alba Maxima
Amelia
Armide
Felicite Parmentier
Great maidens Blush
Konigen von Danemark
Mme. Legras de St. Germain
Mme. Plantier
Suaveolens
Blanchefleur
Bullata
Paul Ricault
Petite Lisette
Rose des Peintres
The Bishop
Tour de Malakoff
Botzaris Celsiana
Duc d Cambridge
Ispahan
Kazanlik
Marie Louise
Mme. Hardy
Mme. Zoetmans
Rose of Castile
Ville de Bruxelles
York and Lancaster
Aimabile Rouge
Alain Blanchard
Anais Segales
Apothecary Rose
Camaieux
Empress Josephine
Ipsiliante
Mecene
Nestor
Orpheline de Juillet
R. gallica
Rose de Maures
Tricolore de Flandre
Comtesse de Murinais
General Kleber
Marechal Davoust
Rene d'Anjou
Soupert et Notting
Shailer's Provence
Rosa Mundi
Tuscany Superb
La Belle Sultane

Let me know if there are any roses that also MUST be included in this collection.

Thanks.

Robert

I don't see Bella Donna on your list.

I am unfamiliar with that rose. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll add it to my next order.

Robert,

Your list is very heavily stocked with gallicas and damasks, i.e. once-bloomers. I'm not sure that's necessary even for a perfumed no-spray garden, and even though they seem to do well in balmy southeast England, who knows how they'll perform in VA. So I would definitely diversify to avoid disappointment and include more repeat bloomers, modern and old, who can be healthy and perfumed. This will also extend the blooming season and add more interest to flower and bush shapes and colors - and perfumes.

Under these criteria I think you should definitely add Jacques Cartier (very healthy and perfumed and a good bloomer), and a rugosa or two since they are often powerfully perfumed and require no spray to stay healthy, e.g. Roseraie de l'Hay. And the hybrid musks, like Felicia. Buff Beauty is quite healthy too and grown a lot here in England, also at public spaces without spray. SdlM is quite healthy without spray if its location is not overly crowded.

For a couple more extraordinary beautiful and famous once- bloomers, add Charles de Mills (a must), Belle de Crecy, Belle Isis.

How about newer moderns?

Are you off teas?

Andrea

Except for Ispahan, the damasks are going to be a blackspotted mess, but I suppose they will survive and bloom in May. You could do other forms of perfume as well, rose water, rose oil, rose pomade. Historically, gallicas were mainly used in the ancient Mediterranean world for perfume, such as the rose oil with which Aphrodite anointed the body of Hektor in the Iliad. It is also mentioned in a Mycenean royal account book ca. 1200 BCE. So the history teacher can piggyback on the science project. Gerd Kruessman's The Complete Rose Book gathers a lot of this information.

Ispahan is bullet proof. Agree with Michael that most Damasks are BS prone here.
Robert mentioned before that gallicas do well in his area. They certainly do well here, but I am in a colder zone.
Albas are a mixed bag. My favorite and healthiest is Semiplena, especially for fragrance and hips.
Olga

Olga

What a great project Robert! Congratulations on the grant!

Robert, do you have the benefit of an historical gardening society or committee in your area? We have that here, even in our small area, of which many doctors, lawyers (retired) have become gentleman farmers who plant and observe those plants for results and then make recommendations. I learned of this group when they called and asked if I would talk to them about the care of tea's, noisette's and china's as they had heard those were roses I recommended, so they are just getting geared up here, but I would suspect in your area there is probably a very knowledgeable and well organized group.

Everyone,

I certainly appreciate all your comments. As you can see, I'm still quite the newbie here.

Perhaps, it's because my tolerance for BS is rather high, but, I don't seem to notice it so much on most of the roses in these classes.

Olga is right that gallicas do tend to do really well for me. I don't have too many damasks, but those that I do have seem to resist BS much more than most of the modern floribundas and hybrid teas.

Andrea, because the goal for the project is to extract the attar from roses that are traditionaly used for rose attar (damask, alba, gallicas...according to my research), I'm trying to stick with them. I will be supplementing the once bloomers with some hybrid musks for some fall interest.

I will definitely add some rugosas..especially for the hips in winter.

Michael, I appreciate your other suggestions. I think those are great ideas too. Some of the teachers at school have already asked me what I intend to do with the rose attar once we extract it... I replied... I don't know, my project was to grow the roses and use the petals for extraction. I didn't think so far ahead!

I've not given up on Teas (chinas, and Noisettes), but, those will be ordered next.

Patricia, I hope that this garden can pull together many gardening enthusiasts. It is a wonderful space that has been neglected, for the most part, since its inception. I do hope to create a horticulture society to take care of it and expand/modify/develop it.

Wish me luck.

Robert

Yes, Robert, I do wish you luck. That is a great thing you are doing.

I believe Kaye from Arkansas works with some historical gardening groups in her area and Andrea Rose from California works with groups in that area.

Perhaps if they should see this, they could offer us some pointers.

I am so impressed with your desire to expand your knowledge and to give others the benefit of what you are creating.

Robert -

Is that last list you posted (4/4/09) a list of what is going in the garden, or a list of the roses you have ordered? I'm a little confused.

Laura

Laura,

Yes to both questions. That is the list of roses I've ordered from Pickering to go into this project. The project is really a chemistry project on extraction and analysis of rose attar from antique roses. So, I tried to focus only on those roses that are traditionally used for attar...mostly damasks. Then I added some gallicas, albas, etc.

I will add more varieties from different classes as I can. I have also propagated many other roses from my own personal collection that I will add to this endeavor.

The courtyard is completely surrounded by brick walls. I've planted a collection of Barbier ramblers to cover the walls. I also added Reve d'Or to add color for more of the year.

I'll be supplementing the roses with loads of companion flowers and some evergreens too. I think it will be gorgeous.

It's coming along nicely.

Robert

Robert

Robert, I admire what you are doing and wish I had half your energy. Now to really important domestic matters, how is Mom?

Maybe you could start a cottage industry and sell rose products to benefit the school, renamed Empress Josephine High.

I noticed you didn't list very many species, which often are the most scented. Rosa centifolia is bullet proof. I'm getting a lot of cane loss on Quatre Saison Damask, but it repeats very well, which is something to think about. You need a lot of petals.
If you could figure out how to distill the apple smell from rosa eglanteria, that would be wonderful: otherwise, just the smell wafting around is worth it. Greenmantle has gone to about 12 feet already in three years with huge blood red thorns; fascinating for the kids, though I don't know yet about the apple smell.
I've been wanting to get a copy of Rose d'Amour which Thomas Jefferson grew.
Vintage has it on their propagation list and Peter Beales has it in England.
I was really impressed with a picture of it in Jon's garden.
Right now, I've got a pot of franklinia altamaha seed in the fridge. I sent off for it from Scheffield's seeds. I was reading about them on the website for John Bartram's house. They had a report on people growing them in various states. Two were Nevada(dry) and Minnesota(cold).
So I decided to play around. Who knows?
The jury is still out, but my band of Errinerung an Brod came through the winter with NO Cane Loss, and that is a first for every tough rose I grow. It has rosa setigera in its parentage. I dumped the band in the ground. I'm convinced that potting up bands into a pot, then hanging around messing with that does little good. Either they are Montana plants, or they are not. All of my bands lived through the winter, just fine.
I did grow Souvenir de La Malmaison in a pot at the shop, which has leaky insulation. and that was great, getting a couple roses every week or so. SDLM has a wonderful perfume, but not strong. I wouldn't choose it for high perfume content.

If you would like to include some historic bulbs in your garden, I can heartily recommend the nursery Old House Gardens, which specializes in them. Nice people, good bulbs, and the catalog and website give the dates of introduction, too.

Rosefolly

I would like to provide a little update on the project.

The roses arrived and were planted yesterday afternoon (about 45 OGRs). These were ordered from Pickering.

I did group the roses for the most part into classes: Gallicas, Damasks, Centifolias, Moss, Albas.

I did include a water feature which is going to add a bit more interest.

I originaly had the damasks spaced on about 8 ft centers, but I reduced that to about 6 ft centers. This is giving me more space for more roses and companion plants.

I'll be propagating some Chinas, Teas, and Noisettes (and species) to fill in the gaps.

Kayla, I have R. eglanteria ready to go into this project. I hadn't thought about trying to distill the apple fragrance. We can definitely try that.

Rosefolly, I am very interested in the heirloom bulb idea. I'm hoping to raise a little money from a plant sale, so I can purchase some heirloom bulbs for this fall.

I've been fortunate to have members of the staff donate cardboard to put under the mulch. Students have stepped forward as volunteers.

The project is really shaping up. All of the MAJOR installation work is now done. If I receive the last grant, however, this will change some of the "structure" of the garden (arbors, etc).

The librarians have been keeping a photo journal of the progress, so I'll post some pictures once the roses leaf out some.

Robert

Hi Robert,

I have the following daffodils which I would love to donate to your program

Actaea - pre 1919
Butter and Eggs - pre 1777
Cheerfulness - pre 1923
Felindre - pre 1930
Lintie - pre 1937
Mrs. R. O. Backhouse - pre 1921
odorus Linnaeus (campernelli) - pre 1875
Queen of the North - pre 1908
Rip van Winkle - pre 1884
Thalia - pre 1916
Van Sion (Telamonius Plenus) - pre 1620

I would like to help you get all thirteen divisions of daffodils represented in your garden. Would this be okay with you?

Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: Divisions of daffodils

Kathy Kathy Kathy.....Thank you sooooooooooo much. That would be wonderful.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the daffodils I got from you. They bloomed at such distinctly different times. It was fun watching them!

Robert

Robert, so exciting to review this thread and what amazing progress you've made. You might want to go see the noisettes and polyanthas at Tufton Farm at Monticello-- the Center for Historic Plants. I was there last May and want to return once the planting is better established; they have a neat layout &great supports for the noisettes. Most of their roses looked wonderful but the noisettes were a disappointment--almost leafless and the polys not much better. Tufton is on a hilltop, full sun and good air circulation, looked ideal. And yet when I saw them, weren't doing anything like they do down here in Z8.

I can't wait to see pics, too. You know, it is easy-peasy to put up a web site with iWeb which includes blogging features. I would think that you have Macs at the school, perhaps one of the librarians or one of the students could put it up for you???

Barbara,

I have seen the Noisettes at Tufton, and, I, too, was less than impressed. I think they are almost an entire zone colder than I am. And, in the protected courtyard, it may be even closer to zone 8. I am going to make cuttings from my Noisettes to add them to this project. I did receive one "wrong" rose (a rose that wasn't on my order) which happens to be Caroline Marniesse...perhaps a subliminal message from Pickering?

I will see about a link to our school's website for this. We do not have Macs.

Robert

Robert,
If you'd like to add some iris to the garden, I can give you some tubers. Perhaps you could add extracting oris root scent to your project list.
If I can get some more lavender to root this summer, I will set some of that aside for you, too.
It sounds like the project is shaping up beautifully!
-Stephanie

Stephanie,

That would be wonderful. I miss seeing you online. How was your first year teaching?

Robert

Well, I survived. And it looks like I have survived the teacher cuts this year, so I will be here again next year. Maybe adding a courtyard garden at my school, too. Yippee! Butterfly gardening is more the educational level of our little ones, though.
I can't wait to see your garden this May. And hopefully Connie's too this time!
-Stephanie

I agree with Robert, it is nice that Stephanie is finding the time to "play" with us on the forum. I know it is difficult when you have little ones and a carreer to find time to play in the garden, much less get on the computer forums.

And Robert, you know I will share my iris with you. I should have some of the one blooming last fall that you liked so well to share this summer.

Kathy

Robert - If your grant has some additional funds you may want to purchase a gas chromatograph to do head space analysis of the fragrance. There are some good articles on rose fragrance back in old American Rose Society annuals, and of course many others and more recent ones as well. With a chromatograph, you can disect all of the components of a fragrance as well as quantitate them. That way you can reproduce any rose fragrance that you smell. I was amazed to learn how many different chemical components actually comprize a single fragrance. Just a thought, perhaps beyond HS chemistry, but I wouldn't be surprized that something at that level might be taught. The folks at an organization in NJ (perhaps something like International Fragrances etc.) once purchased 30 different roses (2 each) from me that I could choose. They clearly were cataloging fragrances chemically. Best, Nick

Robert - Without a grant or an analytical chemistry component to your classes that required a gas chromatograph, you still might be able to have a fragrance separation demonstration done at a local college or an industrial lab where they might accomodate an educational aspect to their community outreach. Please contact me if you need the analytical aspect researched. Best, Nick

Nick,

I do believe I have access to a GC from a local source. This is an EXCELLENT idea, and I appreciate it immensely! Thanks so much. I see another grant proposal in the works! Please send me the analytical aspect.

Robert

Thanks, Kathy, it is nice to have a little time to be back on the forums and see it all abuzz with spring time enthusiasm. And May is just around the corner. I'm hoping to see you at one of the gatherings around the state - Connie's, Robert's, Tufton? Which ever I can drag the family to this year.
Robert, I can speak from experience, the iris Kathy shares are amazing!!! Mine where actually big enough to divide in thier second spring and the more the merrier for these lovelies!
-Stephanie