I can tell you that from my experience Le Pactole is a huge rose. Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux is 5 x 6 in my garden. I love Madame Charles. The blooms are a subtle beautiful shade of pale creamy apricot. In 4 years it has not grown too large. Smith's Parish is gracefull and well foliated(4 x 4) though I don't find the blooms to be very exciting.

Agreed -- Le Pactole may take a few years to really get rollin' but
once it starts, it's a huge rose.
So are Marie van Houtte and, most especially, Smith's Parish.
I have a feeling that ALT is going to get pretty big, too.

Since you want something graceful in habit, and restrained in size,
have you considered Polyanthas? Or Poly-Teas?
'Mlle. Cecile Brunner,' 'Perle d'Or' -- or something like Lambert's 'Tip-Top'?
I really like Tip-Top.
{{gwi:288400}}

Jeri

Ingrid-i really admire that you have a spot and you're looking for a rose. i find myself always with a rose looking for a spot!
Is it bad form to suggest a rose i don't grow? if it is i hope you'll forgive me when you check out Golden Buddha.

I really appreciate your help, even though most of the roses I was considering have now been eliminated. Much better to have this information now than later. Mauirose, Golden Buddha is absolutely gorgeous but alas the color is wrong because of the pink climbers. What about Spice, Rival de Paestum, Angel's Camp Tea or Mrs. Dudley Cross ?Are any of these less than a hulking giant? Jeri, I did consider polyanthas but wanted larger blooms for this area since I have polyanthas in another nearby area.

Ingrid

Ingrid, somebody needs to work on breeding a 4X4 tea; so many more people could grow teas if they weren't so BIG! How 'bout this-- Martha Gonzales is a mannerly little China that stays small and reblooms terrifically. If you like her with pink, that is. Hope somebody can comment on the mature size of Caldwell Pink; blooms aren't large but the sprays are, so it's very showy. Ours have grown sideways to about 5 ft. wide in 2 years but are well under three feet. However, they may grow UP next, too soon 2 tell!

Ingrid, I have Faith Whittlesey from Roses Unlimited sitting in a pot in my front. It has bloomed two gorgeous blossoms. It is the 'newest' tea introduction and is from the Indian breeder, Viru Viraraghavan. The size is listed as "30 inches" - what does this mean? I will let you know in three years, lol. But I do think it might stay smaller. You will love the blossoms.

Have you heard of poly-teas? The only one that I know well is Lady Ann Kidwell. It is a gracefull plant 4 x 5 in my garden. The flowers are probably too bright for what you want(rather cerise) but maybe you could find something in that class that is appropriate.

You're all going to want to kill me, after so kindly taking the trouble to help me, but I've decided once again to keep that area free of further roses. When I look out the French door from my bed all I can see in that area is green, and it's so soothing and wonderful, especially since everything else in my garden has color. The problem is weeds and so I'm constantly trying to figure out what to do with this rectangle. I'd thought about roses for this area before, and even had Blumenschmidt growing there, but I've moved that to another spot to keep this area open and serene. And then once again I was seduced by the thought of roses and hence this post. But often your first instincts are the best and I'm going to have to find a way to keep this as a peaceful green area (except for the pink climbers which I can't see from my bedroom) and continue to wrestle with the problem of how to make this area look good with a minimum of green plants.

One good thing though, I've learned about the dimensions of teas I was interested in. Information about roses is always a good thing.

Thank you again, everyone.

Ingrid

P.S. Jeri, in case you didn't see my comment on another post, the Single Cerise China which you enabled me to get has buds all the time. I think it's going to be one of the most floriferous roses I have and it's a cutie.

then i would suggest grasses. there are so many ornamental grasses that would work. that would give you the green,and if you planted different grasses, the texture and weed suffocation.

I had NOT seen that comment, Ingrid.
But I agree with you completely.
Single Cerise China is a 100% winner here.
It's vigorous, and it looks like it's going to be VERY clean.
It's even got a nice fragrance.
I sent Gregg a pix for the web site. People have to see this one to
understand how good it is.

Len -- my DH loves grasses, too.

Mendocino -- Beware!
I have seen an old Lady Ann Kidwell grown up to the top of a peaked roof.
Ours is still under 5 ft., but clearly, it has ambitions.
Just a single story -- but pretty impressive.

Jeri

lens, I'm intrigued at your suggestion of grasses,something that wouldn't have occurred to me. I'm going to check that out. I know zero about grasses at this time.

Jeri, I hadn't thought to look for fragrance with SCC; I just assumed it didn't have any. Will definitely start sniffing it now.

Ingrid

To be truthful, I'm not sure why I bothered to smell it, as I didn't expect it, really.
But it's there . . .

Jeri

Jeri maybe Lady Ann is smaller here because the winters are cooler. Mine is at least 6 years old at a reasonable size. Of course that wouldn't have worked for Ingrid.
Ingrid I applaud you for letting go of putting roses in this spot. It's so hard sometimes to let go of having more roses. I have found that the places where I resisted are like a relief in walking around the garden. It's almost like a clearing of pallette.

Mendocino Rose, thank you. It pleases me so much that you understand exactly what my feelings are about this area in my garden. There has to be contrast, and a rest for the eyes and the spirit from the constant bombardment of the senses that a rose/flower garden can create. I think of it as my small Zen garden.

Ingrid

maybe Lady Ann is smaller here because the winters are cooler.

*** That's very likely true!
OTOH, if you had, oh, 60 years to let it grow (as was the case with that really big one)
I bet you might see some impressive size.

Jeri

Jeri, sometimes I have nightmares thinking about what this place could look like in 60 years!

So do I!

Jeri