It depends on your zone as I understand it. If you are in a very cold zone then you need to plant the graft below the soil line. For warmer places you can plant it above the soil line. I am planting below the soil line because I want my plant to go own root.
I don't know how you can tell if they've gone own root, all I know is that the ones I have that are grafted are pretty obvious. I try to buy own root but David Austin Roses only sells grafted and I have 3 or 4 of those. All my others are from J&P and are own root "new generation".

Unless you have a truly specific reason for them to stay grafted, I recommend that you plant the rose with the graft buried a couple inches so that it will go own root. You can kinda tell when they've done it because their growth tends to have far more true new canes coming from below ground on an own-root plant.

--Ron

I was told at a local pruning demo that planting the graft below the soil line leads to disease, and that if I want an own root to take a cutting - is there any possibility of disease from planting the graft? What would it be?

Thank you.

When canes start coming up quite a distance from the bud union is one way of telling.

I read somewhere that the chance of crown gall was greatly increased when the bud union was below grade, but I have not seen this myself.

Rose societies in the Washington area recommend planting the bud union a couple of inches below ground. This is touted as protecting some of the less hardy roses, as in moderns, and other tender varieties from being lost in extremely cold conditions where they die back to the ground. The second reason is for them to go onto their own roots. I have even modern HTs on their own roots and many do very well.

I once read a review of an experiment in which some roses (I am remembering French ground covers, but don't hold me to it) were planted as a bed of budded and a bed of own root. After 10 years, the bed of budded (presumably bud union above ground) were almost decimated while the bed of own root were all doing fine, suggesting some long term incompatability of some kind. Of course it is known that some understocks are more compatable than others for various roses and rose classes. In this country, most roses are budded on Dr. Huey of R. multiflora. Note that I found more than a half dozen different R. multiflora understocks at Beltsville 25 years ago when I haunted the remains of the black spot resistance plot. Many of them were quite beautiful to someone with an eye for 'Blackberries' as Henry Mitchell explained when he saw them. I even propagated one of them (a nice double pink) for him. Even now, a rose friend has 4 different understocks in some old beds where the budded plant has succumbed.

PS - An engineer rose friend once did an experiment where he collected temperature data above ground, in mulch and 3 inches below ground level in his rose garden. When the temperature was zero above ground, it was +5 degrees in the mulch and 27 degrees 3 inches below ground. This demonstrated to him the trememdous advantage of the soil/ice crystal protection that even a couple of inches of frozen soil permitted and the protective effect that a burried bud union experiences. This same concept is used to protect roses in areas where temperatures much colder than ours is found. I have heard of burrying the bud union even 4" to 6" in extremely cold environments. And I have also heard that some folks even partially dig half of the plant on one side and lay it on its side to cover it with soil for protection. Sorry for the long stories!
Best, Nick

I had read on this forum (I believe), that the 3-5 year rule of waiting to see what a rose is going to do before getting rid of it, may indicate that after 3-5 years the rose has gone ownroot and really takes off... Whoever had written this said it much more eloquently. It made sense to me at the time.

Robert

It is necessary for us in the North to plant grafted roses with the bud union below the soil surface, so the bud union is protected from harsh freezing. I plant my bud unions 4-6" below the surface.

I would think in zone 6 you would still want to plant the bud union below ground. Zone 7 & up is probably not necessary for the freezing issue.

I have moved some roses a couple years after planting (with bud union well-buried). I do remember one had produced a lot of its own roots above the graft, so was going own-root. It was, however, still utilizing the graft roots as its own-roots were not developed enough to support the plant. Maybe it takes a while for them to go fully own-root in our climate because of shorter growing seasons.

Could you dig a rose up that has been in the ground a year and re plant it? Could it still go own root?

Carla

Carla, sure people replant or move roses all of the time.

I've been planting mine with the graft around 2" below the surface for the past 5 years or so. I don't know if any of the older ones have gone "own root", maybe the two in the backyard, and maybe Marchesa Boccella. The rest have the graft union too high, and there is no way they are moving unless I am too...

As a zone 6/7 rose watcher, I'd say that zone 7 conditions also require burial of the bud union. Not for every year, but there will be enough years every decade, that the temperatures will drop precipitously as Blue Northers move in and take temps below the mid 20s F. When that happens, the unhardened canes from the previous summer and fall will die if they are exposed.
OK, we know that a lot of us visit our roses throughout the year, even when they aren't in bloom. But a percentage of rose growers, who are solely bloom oriented, are interested in their plants only when the blooms are happening. These folks would have the black canes of freeze damage, botrytis and saprophytic fungi will move in and kill the canes and possibly the whole plant before the owner even notices that something is wrong. And it's easier for them to dig up a dead rose if the roots are still Dr. Huey, than if they go ownroot.
And so more roses get sold.
OTOH, when I buy a rose, I plan to keep that rose and I want it to be a rose for decades. I don't want to loose it to winter. So if it's planted bud union low, it has a greatly increased chance of survival.
And to answer a question from the almost beginning, you can tell when a budded rose (with a buried bud union) is going own root, because as you weed in the early spring, you'll be pulling up weeds with tender white roots, and occassionally you'll run into black, woody, very thin roots (pulled up with the weeds) that are still attached to the mother rose that come off of the canes. Just replant them.

ann, what if you don't have any weeds in your garden? I don't have any weeds.....jk

Well, rlinva, I can send you seeds, many seeds, many, many seeds.....(jk)
Sort of seriously, if you don't have any weeds, where are the lady bugs going to hang out before the aphids come onto the roses? Right now I've got Lady Bugs happily sunning themselves in the purslane and henbit (and I have left a few weeds in the already weeded beds because there were so many Lady Bugs in them that I didn't want to displace the good bugs.)
And I did goof, I keep meaning to call them indigenous companion plantings....

I have some pretty weeds that I leave: veronica, purple deadnettle (which is hugely more attractive than its name), violets, which can be invasive so I have to monitor them, and some whose names I don't know but I know how they behave as plants. These, along with all the grass sprouted from the hay mulch, and wild strawberry and mallows and various other noxious things that I haven't gotten around to pulling out, provide plenty of places for the ladybugs to hide. A lot of my garden is rather wild-looking, and the volunteers fit in pleasantly.

I moved a 'Charles de Mills' recently and saw that it had begun to develop roots above the graft; after that we planted all the grafted roses we bought last fall deep to encourage them to grow ownroot. Winter cold hasn't been an issue in rose survival since we've lived here, but I wonder whether planting the roses deeply doesn't help them with summer heat, especially with the heavy mulch on the beds. I have a lot of once-blooming old roses, Gallicas and such, and I doubt they'd care for warm roots.

Melissa

The only class of roses that seems to 'require' no mulch and warmed roots (according to sevearl late 1800's books ) are the tea roses.

Has anyone ever seen any kind of disease develop as a result of planting the grafts below the soil line in zone 7 or above? I think hoovb mentioned crown gall?

Crown gall is a bacteria and the bacteria are in a lot of soils. Galls are common on roses planted on the Gulf Coast (according to the gentleman from Mobile who was running for Pres. of ARS).
If there are breaks in a rose's exterior (root, crown, stem) you may get a gall. Some roses are more resistant to galls than others.
Some soils seem more prone than other soils.
Some roses can live with galls, others will be girded.

Low planting of grafts can lead to galls. Planting with the graft at the soil top can also lead to galls when you try to cut dieing canes off right at the bud union and accidentally nick the alive bud union.

The bacteria is Agrobacterium tumefaciens. Boelema's 1969 paper about "Resistance of Rose Rootstock to Crown Gall" would be a place to start reading.

Thanks, Ann.

Ha, as far as no mulch and warm roots for Teas are concerned. My Tea roses get mulched like all the rest. I figure they benefit more from the water retention and nutrition than they're hurt by the cooler roots. But then we've been living in zone 9 for the last two years.

Melissa

I think the reason roses with buried grafts in the south go "south," is because of the humidity, which incubates fungus, etc.

Yes, Carla, you can move a 1-year-old rose to another location and in a couple years, if you have buried the graft or erosion has buried in (which happens to me) then it will go own-root. I continue putting mulch and compost, etc., to my roses and beds, and the ones at the lower end go own-root more quickly as they are benefactors of "piling up" and burying the graft. Dr. Huey does not do well in my garden so any that did not die are own-root now. Most of my fortunianas have gone own-root after 2-3 years. Some do extremely well, some not so well. I think Jema and Olympiad are two that have not benefited from going own root.

Diane, can you tell us why you decided to plant the bud union lower 5 years ago? How were the results before that as compared to after?

Ann,

I have more weeds than roses...it was a sad attempt at humor. alas, I guess I shouldn't give up my day job to become a comedian...

The temp swings were really wild, and I was starting to lose plants. Just a snap decision, from reading what other folks here were doing. Haven't lost a plant to weather since (other stupid stuff yes, weather, no).

I have no idea what might have gone own root and what hasn't, I'm not curious that way. I'll take a look when I'm out pruning.

I moved a 20+ year old Shreveport for my mother a few years ago, because of a tree that had grown up to shade it in its original location, and buried the bud union when I replanted it. I don't know that it has gone own root, but it did survived and has thrived. And to my own root biased eye, the plant looks a lot better without that big, ugly old bud union exposed. For me that would be reason enough to bury the thing.