Hmm I prefer own-root bands above anything else because:

1. I have to dig a much smaller hole for a band.

2. I don't have to worry about rootstock suckering.

3. A lot of the varieties I have and prefer are not even available grafted that I can find.

I generally go OR but there are some that just don't do well OR.

I've grown grafted roses for decades, and I prefer them by far. And they do live a long time in my garden. The two own root roses I grow are very inferior to their grafted counterparts--blooming, looks of the blooms, and vigor. Their cold hardiness is virtually the same here. Diane

My grafted roses are fine, but my own root minis are sad

What is the problem with your own root minis? Did the cold cause some dying back? I forgot to mention that all my Drifts and mini roses are own root. They do fine, but I was talking above about the regular sized roses I grow. Below is a grocery store mini I've grown for years. Every year, it gets bigger. It's humongous this year, but not blooming yet, nor is any other rose in my garden. I hope your minis improve. I love the look of the new Knockout Mini Double Red. It's just been released for sale this year. Diane

I enjoy growing roses in pots and therefore strongly prefer own root since it almost always means a shapelier shrub.

My minis are new and died back this winter… it’s tough to get new growth and flowers. Hopefully it will improve. That’s my only problem. They are cute but have huge thorns!

What do you mean it's tough to get new growth and flowers? Remind me what zone you're in?

Not all roses are created equal, some are amazingly vigorous growers as own-root, and some are pathetic. OR works better for some situations and/or varieties, grafted works better other times. People have their preferences but there's no accuracy to a blanket statement like all roses are better grafted (or own-root).

I’m zone 5b-6a
The roses are slow slow growers, by the time they started growing last season it was so late that the new growth got frozen and died!

So new growth is just a battle

Which varieties are they?

I honestly don’t know, they were big box store valentines clearance.

Oh, like the kind that's just meant to be sold as a little indoor potted plant type thing? If so, few things ... Those are not intended to be garden plants. As Diane will attest, in some places they can grow just fine outdoors, but in your zone they may barely be hanging on due to hardiness incompatibility. Also, those are commonly little pots full of a few cuttings clustered together, so it might be that you've got a bunch of tiny own-roots very close together that just aren't meant for your zone. It's not uncommon for a rose to die back in your zone, but if it takes all season to even begin rebounding, then I doubt it's suitable for your climate.

If you fertilized your minis right before freezing weather you'd get tender new growth that would be zapped by the cold. I agree with Magpie that some of those store minis were not bred to be good garden plants. I have bought some on clearance as well...I separated out the five or six plants that were crowded in the pot and potted them all up separately. Some have done ok but most of them don't seem to have good vigor. Some are very pretty. Other minis I've bought that were bred to be good plants are great. You might try some Ralph Moore minis if you especially like minis, or Dee Bennet. I don't know anything about Dave Bang minis. There are lots of good minis but those grocery store minis have turned out to be mostly duds for me.

Anyway own root plants take a little more patience I think. Some varieties do well own root as others have said and some are better grafted. I do know some people in cold climates prefer own root. Grafted works better for Mad Gallica. Palatine's grafted roses do better than most other grafted ones for me in zone 7a NC. When I first started growing roses I thought own root were much easier to grow and I had better success with them. If you learn how to root cuttings you're going to end up with own root plants of course. It's fun to add to your collection that way.

You guys are right, that makes sense, I might move them inside.
On a separate note, mine were striped and then turned to red. Super sad about that, but they sported back.

Is one of the typical colors of your striped rose red? Like it has red striping or the base color is red with other colored stripes? And did it just go all red in the heat of summer? If so I don't think your rose sported and then sported back, but more likely that the striping was brought out best by certain weather conditions.

Your minis won't do well indoors long term I bet. When roses are sold as those little indoor plants they're brought up in greenhouses and are meant to be temporary decorations. Unless you've got a greenhouse, they'll sulk indoors after a while. It's okay, live and learn. Many, many great minis have been bred to be outdoor garden plants that you can try and have better success with.

I believe it, they were so sad after being there for only a week! Trust me I watched!
The striping went away in the summer. They went from red with white stripes to just red.

Here's a red and white striped mini with good vigor: Hurdy Gurdy.

Your red one is a pretty color anyway.

I love your little red mini, GardeningT. I hate to use this word, but it's adorable. Diane

Here’s some more!

My only other own roots are ones that are bagged roses that are own root. They seem to be doing well. Surprisingly I haven’t lost one bagged one yet, they are all taking to the soil perfectly.

@GardeningTeenager Where did you buy body-bag own roots??

I trust you, I will leave them in the ground then!

Magpie, I got them at Walmart. Only certain varieties were own root. It was weird I just opened it, and there was no graft union.

What do the flowers on the laxa rootstock look like if they grow suckers?

@GardeningTeenager Can I see? I've very curious since I have never seen a bagged own-root at such a store...

I will send a picture as soon as I get home, I’m out right now,

GardeningT, your pretty red mini looks exactly like the brand new Petite Red Knockout in a full page photo in the latest Fine Gardening magazine. Since yours started striped, I guess it isn't some kind of pre-release of the Petite one. I like it best as a solid red. Hang on to that one. Diane

I will, I have about 15! They are all so small

I will be ok, @Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)

It's a lesson I never seem to learn, but I just have to try to remember to stay out of arguments that are not my business or I end up being the scapegoat.

@GardeningTeenager sorry for derailing your thread.

I prefer own root but its also about what's available for me to order.

No! You were fine! I enjoyed your post. Does Europe actually have no own root roses? I wonder why. Here with heirloom roses people rave about them, I just ordered my first an hour ago. I’m excited to welcome earth angel as my 21st full size rosebush! (Once it comes in the mail😄)

Magpie and I are just talking, she was giving great advice, and I trust both of you! In fact I actually have some mini roses, a select few that do do well outside, it’s just that most don’t. You both are right and im happy to try both sides of the opinions. I read online more of what you said, but what magpie said was more accurate to my experiences. Maybe it’s because they are 2nd year, maybe not.

I honestly like when my threads get derailed, it’s fun. We’ve gone from grafted to minis and everyone is having a good time so no worries!

Thanks @GardeningTeenager

They prefer grafted here, I guess. I've tried asking for own root and it seems to be considered as inferior. I don't have an opinion on that.

Also people have a very loose attitude towards propagation rules here, so I have heard several people, even professional gardeners, tell me that if I want an own root of something I should just take cuttings and root them myself.

Congratulations on getting Earth Angel! She seems gorgeous.

I wish patent rules were more loose here! Also one of my old neighbors was from England, they have certain ways of doing things in the garden that she will NOT budge on, It has to be done the English way. Maybe they don’t like the idea of own root because it’s newer? Maybe it’s just tradition? I know that heirloom roses treats own root like it is the only way, and other places are grafted only.

My only problem with own root is that it is harder to tell with earth angel if it’s the right variety. Some pictures people post show that it does not show pink until a few years later. I’m just scared and hoping I will get the right variety!

Hehe the patent rules about propagation are the same here, people just ignore them.

I think grafted can help because it eliminates the headache of soil pH. Laxa rootstock is very good at adapting to any pH soil, but especially alkaline.

So, if you live in a place with alkaline soil and water (which is the case for most of Southern Europe), then getting all your roses grafted on an alkaline-tolerant rootstock like Laxa will be a plus.

But since I garden in pots only, I wish I could get more own-root since soil is not an issue.

I am curious about your neighbor's English garden ways!

Umm maybe I missed some posts that are now deleted because clearly I missed *something* and I'm totally confused lol.

I think seasiderooftop deleted a post.

Seasiderooftop, my neighbor is very much doing as her mother did in England, she loves a very seedy and waxy cucumber she claims is an English variety, and she only likes old style lilacs like what her mom had. She’s not as fond of bloomerang ones even though she wishes they would bloom all summer. I have tried to convince her to use chicken wire to prevent the animals from getting in her garden, but she is not really interested, as the fence she has is wood like the one her mom had in England. She also insists her mom never cut down her roses in the winter, (England is a lot warmer), and that is how to get big roses. Her mother had a giant 9 foot rosebush. What many people will tell you in the cold area I live in is that they die back. She follows a lot of these traditions for warmer weather gardening that her and her sisters did in England. Granted, her cucumbers are amazing, I didn’t like seedy cucumbers until I tried hers, her roses are humongous, her lilacs are perfect, they bloom so nicely, and I could go on about how smart she is. She has such a gorgeous garden. It’s so pretty and I used to love to visit with her just to see the plants! Her vegetable garden is so gorgeous, it’s very neat. It looks like mr mcgregor’s garden from Peter rabbit!

@GardeningTeenager

That is amazing that your neighbor is getting such good results with a totally different approach!

I hope your Earth Angel will be the right rose! Don't worry if she takes a little while to get her colors. My Heritage took months to get hers, when she first bloomed in my garden she was completely white and I was worried. She finally showed her normal pink during her final flush last year. Earth Angel seems like such a fantastic rose, it will definitely be worth the wait to see her mature. She has a pretty distinctive shape so that should be a good clue about the variety in the meantime.

@Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b), and everyone, sorry about the confusion earlier!

The English neighbour story makes me chortle-just goes to show that in gardening, there isn't any one right way to do things,lol. It's about Life, and we all know that life is not an exact science!

Seaside, there are nurseries in Europe that offer own-root. La Roseraie du Desert was one. Becky and John Hook sold it, however-I think they wanted to move back to the USA-and I don't think that the new owners have gotit up and running again yet, but you could check. Nino Sanremo sells only own-roots, too; there are others, I think, but none pop into my mind just now...

@bart bart You are certainly correct that some do exist. Pharmarosa has some varieties as own root, and Jardin de Talos has own root but only OGR. I will try to order with them in the fall.

However, to be honest these are a tiny minority, there is hardly any demand for own-root.

I looked into Nino Sanremo, they seem great, but they wanted to charge me €350 in shipping alone to send five roses to Malta so... nope!! 😅

Shipping is insane right now! i bought a 19.99 rosebush, and they charged me 9.99 for shipping!

I will say in response so @Diane Brakefield 's comments about the new petite knockout that I worked at a nursery last year a little, and it was a gorgeous bush, however the petals feel a little like plastic, and the bush begins to branch like crazy after it reaches about a foot. The branches stem off like crazy and get tangled. It almost looks like it just cannot pass a certain height so it just gets thicker and thicker. It's also hard to deadhead because it has very few leaves with 5 lobes on them. Don't get me wrong, it's amazing but it will not get much bigger than a foot and a half. It is so resistant to any diseases, the rest of the roses would just die in the summer while the little knockouts stayed 100% disease free, no blackspot at all!

Absolutely, It's just sad that the shipping is that high anyway, i wish they included it in the cost of the plant.

"i wish they included it in the cost of the plant."

Then you would be back to paying $50 per plant again!

Including shipping in the cost of roses makes things more expensive for those of us who drive to go pick up our order instead of having it shipped, while people who do get shipping pay the same price either way. Not fair, IMO, and subjects the nursery to having to fluctuate prices however often to shipping price fluctuates.

It's not that I don't like good roses, I just don't like to have to pay so much for them. It's like buying a new car, everyone loves a new car, but hates having to pay so much for it!