This is their latest from a Facebook post from approximately 3 PM, PST today.

Garden Roses LLC

· Spring Shipping UpdateGarden Roses has encountered challenges that have significantly impacted our first greenhouse growing crop, resulting in a substantial loss of roses. Due to this unforeseen challenge, our small family business is not able to fulfill many of our Spring 2024 orders when expected. We share in your disappointment and are truly sorry for this delay. Note: This does not impact Fall 2024 orders.We will have some additional band roses ready for shipment by early-June and the rest will be ready by the Fall. If you live in a cooler zone, you can ask us about receiving your order in the Summer months.Delay or CancellationIt is our hope that those in the rose community will still support our small business, but we understand if you do not want to wait until May/June or Fall for your roses. If you would like to cancel your order, please email Tess@GardenRosesLLC.com. We ask for your patience as we respond to each email. As a small family business, we lack a customer service team to automate or expedite this process.AlternativesIf you elect to cancel your order in lieu of waiting, we are working hard to provide alternatives for you to choose from.We do have about 200 own-root roses (not English Shrub roses) that are close to a year old, that were never listed on our website and were planned for in person sales. These will be ready Mother's Day weekend either in person or for shipping. These are in 1-gallon pots.We are also going to try to get in some other rose related products to offer as well (Rose-scented Soaps and candles, rose tea, rose gauntlets, pruning shears, etc.)Thank YouWe are very grateful for all those that are willing to wait until May/June or to shift your orders to Fall. We are dedicated to making things right for everyone and appreciate your support and all the kind feedback as we continue to grow.

It appears the 16 comments to the post are all positive.

@roseseek they also seem to have deleted all those other posts from the past three weeks, and someone else said they are deleting any negative comments on this new post. That seems to be true, as there was one comment asking for a refund, and now it's gone.

ElfRosaPNW8b Scammers never change, people need to pursue the refunds via chargebacks from the credit card companies and the banks.

@ElfRosaPNW8b I also noticed no one can comment on the page unless they have been following it for two weeks. Stack the deck in your favor...

I have remained silent, but followed this thread and handled my refund attempts privately, but something about this latest email from them really set me off. I got my several hundred dollars back through my credit card, after giving these people ample time to make things right. The audacity they have to send around another message, still trying to act like they are a legit business just hitting a minor bump in the road, but ready for May/June and fall orders. Folks, I hope none of you fall for this bull. I am so tired of hearing the "small family-run business" excuse for not getting through the refunds in two weeks. If they only processed 100 per day (a very low bar to achieve) that would be 1,400 refunds by now. The refunds aren't coming because the money isn't there, and they're robbing Peter to pay Paul for what little money they have returned to people, to keep the scam going. They were certainly able to take money easily, despite their "small business" model. If you're going to run ANY business, you have to act responsibly. I hope someone files a law suit. They seriously need to be shut down.

@pezhead439 You've got a valid point they wont stop until someone does sue them or they get overly exposed in a different manner. Guess I will pursue the different manner that I was pondering when they seemed to be going legit, now that Mr Narcissist is back it seems scam is continuing.

It's been two weeks since I emailed Garden Roses LLC asking for a refund and I've received no response and no refund. I'm glad I pursued it with my bank.

I have mixed feelings about this whole situation. I think it's confusing and unnerving because the business feels part-real, part-fake, and also there are children involved. And I feel pretty terrible about children being used to possibly lend credibility a fraudulent business. I also have a great deal of empathy for those with mental illness.

This link was shared up-thread, but if you feel there is fraudulent activity you wish to report, you can do so here: https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/

I bear no ill-will toward the owners of Garden Roses LLC, but I think it's important to feel empowered to report wrongdoing if you feel that's what's taking place and have evidence to provide. It's a choice you can make.

Several years ago, I was the victim of a cyber crime that was much more overtly malicious and personal. It left me very shaken and unable to trust people online for quite a long time. I chose not to report it, but I ended up being contacted out of the blue by a detective who'd tracked down various victims, and I was able to relay my story. I'll admit it was somewhat of a relief to know the criminal was being brought to justice.

I'm not saying these are equivalent situations, but it's important to know there are avenues to report wrongdoing should you choose to do so. It's everyone's choice and right to do so, and it doesn't necessarily mean you're engaging in a "witch hunt."

I'll also note that their message says they're investing in additional products to sell.

"We are also going to try to get in some other rose related products to offer as well (Rose-scented Soaps and candles, rose tea, rose gauntlets, pruning shears, etc.)"

This is not a person who knows what the heck they are doing, from a business perspective. They are outlaying additional funds while not paying back refunds. WTH? Anyone considering letting their money ride with the company, in the hopes that they will get the product(s) they were promised, is kidding themselves.

I totally agree Pez. I told my local rose garden center who has been propagating own root roses for decades that I ordered from garden roses llc and they said they wished I would have spoken to them first. I wish I would have too, but the allure of those roses washed out my common sense. Don’t fall for it. Do they even have out of commission Austin roses? Most likely not. Hence the new email. There are other legit places to get these roses you just have to be aware of when they offer them and jump on it. Ma Cherie, High Country, K&M..Check your email often for notifications. Those roses in that email photo look awfully small and immature to be in one gallon pots

Several folks have mentioned his "amateur hybridizing program". Surely, you cannot believe that this guy is actually attempting to hybridize roses, given all of the fake balls he has in the air to manage with his ongoing scam. Saying he's an amateur hybridizer adds to his resume and gives him validity and cachet with rose people. Best bet is that the pics of the "larger" roses in pots are the mother plants of the DA roses he is selling (I'm being generous here in assuming he has mother plants). Which of course explains why he can't provide many rooted roses from cuttings of them, since they're so small.

It is a fact that majority of the people who had ordered from them did not receive their plants and neither did they get full refunds . If this thread gets deleted, more people might fall for the same thing.
I think it’s an insult to ‘small businesses’ by doing what Garden Rose LLC has been doing. If someone is looking for information about this business, they should be able to find them !

If you’re on Facebook you may want to check out Rose Vendor Feedback.

I cannot believe that I need to spell this out, but here it is.

Factual differences between legitimate rose dealers (like David Austin, Palatine, High Country Roses, Heirloom Roses, Northland Rosarium, Antique Rose Emporium, etc.) and this "Garden Roses LLC":

- The owner of "Garden Roses LLC" was previously convicted of theft committed by fraudulent activity.

- The owners have not fully refunded customers who requested refunds more than two weeks ago. The typical grace period a credit card company will give a vendor for issuing refunds is 10 days. I have NEVER had a business, small or large, take 10 days to issue a requested refund.

- The other rose dealers we all know have been in business for years, have a proven track record of delivering products on time, and making right with customers if/when they don't.

Pointing to an isolated time (e.g., during COVID) when an established vendor offered alternative roses to customers due to crop problems is, frankly, ridiculous. Does that happen? Yes. In fact, I was contacted by a very reputable *small business* vendor last week saying that the rose I ordered from them failed to survive over winter. They offered me a replacement. Instead, I asked for a refund and, guess what?! I already have that refund. They will receive my repeat business.

Everyone needs to make their own informed decision. I just wanted to respond with facts, given that that was called into question.

@judijunebugarizonazn8

We do not know how many refunds ( or full refunds) have been done by Garden Roses, LLC.-But some full refunds have happened-FACT.S. (Misstatements above in thread …) Where are the statistics-do any of us know all about the stats on refunds, ? No.Legally, we do not know Nate’s business stats,.

To compare one business to another, to expect all business to refund in 10 days even when a catastrophe, is not necessarily possible and doesn’t always happen. .

I have seen Garden Rosrs making earnest attempts to fix the order issues. I would not ”assume anything.” Thete webside demonstrates they are offering choices to fix each other or alternatives. That is legitimate/legal and common when a business has a crop failurre.

Each person has a choice to work it out w/ Garden Roses presently, which banks/legal authorties are aware.

As long as he offers each person a solution/alternatice choices to fix their orders he is following business practices and within the law. He is presently within the law.

DA took all spring and summer to refund me for not being able to fulfill my order when it had crop failure. . They even offered me a rose the next season, to wait a year, as an alternative. i understand DA were having a business crop failure. I waited patiently a full season to work it out. They first projected 1 month to wait for a refund. I was very supportive, anyway, understanding I would support them in building their business back.

As stated earlier, there are ”numerous assumptions and misinformation on this above thread. Please delete this thread, as it is a misrepresentation of many facts., It does not support positive relations within the forum, either.

I beleive in helping my neighbor, believing in him and helping him to do his best! I see Nate and his family has worked very hard, tons of rose pots on his property. I do not wish to see anyone fail. Hard work and trying to build an honest living was evidently what he set out to do. . Having an organic farm is more difficult. Anyway, it is possible for those with loving support to improve and fo well. There are many people who need to improve in this world. We are all not without faiults.,

For those who are perfect…. you may cast the first stone of doubt, even before a law is broken.

Again, I would prefer this thread was deleted. Allow people to make their own decisions based on facrs they research.

This forum used to be a pleasant rose type of club to enjoy.

KittyNYz6, I asked GRLLC for a refund. they did not respond for weeks. When they did, I got a receipt for one amount and a refund for another. They partially refunded me. So somehow through Shopify, they were able to reduce the amount after they sent the ”refund” email email. Does that sound legit and honest?

Please see the latest post on the rose vendor feedback page. Nate has responded to an email that they are not refunding any of the orders they are unable to ship. i am guessing customers will be forced to choose a different variety, a candle, or wait 2 years or so until their mother plants are larger and they work out their kinks. bait and switch. very upsetting. same thing happened to me with ”one love roses” and it took me 30 emails and 1 1/2 years to get my money back. i clearly purchased the roses for spring of 2022 with one love and spring off 2024 with garden roses llc. if they are unable to send out the product then they should refund. please leave this forum up as a warning to all about these scam businesses. very sad.

Because of the input I’ve received, I do not intend to delete this thread. Sorry, Kitty. Although at present I do not believe Garden Roses LLC is a safe company to deal with and I cannot recommend them to anyone, neither do I feel duty bound to campaign against them.

If I may, I would like to recommend a little story that helps me keep my equilibrium in cases like this. You can find the story in print, I believe, or you can find it easily online: “The Woodcutters Wisdom”, by Max Lucado.

@KittyNYz6 You claim this thread is full of "misinformation" - but how is it that you know more than others about the way banks and various businesses operate, or who has/hasn't received refunds?

If you truly want this forum to be more "pleasant," stirring up a thread you don't like and bringing more attention to it seems like an odd choice.

What is RVF?

Jessica, where is the rose vendor feedback page? Can you provide a link, please?

Kitty, I hope you aren't implying that anyone here wishes other people to fail. Speaking for myself, I ordered a product, the product wasn't delivered, I was offered a refund, I requested said refund, I didn't receive the refund, end of story. It is not personal. Why don't you give others on this forum as much 'benefit of the doubt' as you've afforded this rose vendor? That's the last I'm going to say on this thread. I'm done.

@pezhead439 it is on facebook. Search ”rose vendor feedback” and then you can request to join and view the posts. https://www.facebook.com/groups/383906040740972/permalink/460995973031978/?mibextid=W9rl1R

the post is a screenshot of an email from nate, posted about 3 hours ago.

@KittyNYz6 that's great, but your mistake here is to assume that others are somehow less skilled or more anonymous. I don't see any facts at all in your comments; they are mere opinions and hold no more weight than any other comments.

Kitty, I have a The Prince ordered. Do I need to choose a different rose ?

I have only 1 rose ordered so I am going to hang in and see what happens

Anyone that is being told you can't have a refund please go to your banks and your credit cards, tell them you've been defrauded, haven't received the product that you paid. Also tell them you won't be receiving the product you were promised either. They will help you and you may need to be persistant. You don't have to settle for no refund and most of these companies/banks are equippped to help you if asked. I suggest you only ever pay via paypal in the future for your products.

Kitty, I can’t believe that you’re implying that this business is making an ‘earnest attempt’! I live in one of the places where we were supposed to get roses in February. But weeks after making posts about starting to ship and big boxes, absolutely NO ONE had received their orders.
I started getting suspicious and reached out to them via multiple mediums. The only one Nate responded to was a rude reply to my chargeback . Much later in their post about crop failures, the timeline they mentioned coincided with the time they had communicated with me. There was no mention of any alternative, just chiding me for starting a charge back.
Please DO NOT discount customers’ dissatisfaction and earnest attempts to make things right! We all have families and our own troubles, which does NOT involve trying to mislead people!!

KittyNYz6 -

Honestly, an earnest attempt by this company from the word go should've been come up with a detailed plan in order to keep the communication with the customers who placed faith with them up to date.

They should've informed said loyal customer when they first started experiecing issues with the rooted cuttings.

They could've managed expectations and found themselves in a far better position than they currently are at this point with things. They literally could of asked for more time if they would've been honest about the problems. Can't believe I'm saying that but I would of respected what they were trying to do far more than hiding things.

Plenty of things they could've done and should've done but just didn't bother to actually do.

Please stop telling people they are giving this an earnest go when they aren't even bothering to refund people who've actually asked for there money back.

@Galadriel if he chided you then that isn't customer service, that is abuse from someone who is mad about you actually using the means of credit card protection and bank card protection to protect yourself from his failure to be honest with you.

I encourage anyone reading this to go to your credit card company or your bank and tell them you've been defrauded - that they aren't going to refund your money. You didn't receive the goods you purchased from them.

Seems to me that anyone who still thinks they are ever going to get their roses from GRLLC are sadly kidding themselves. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that nothing Nate does is legitimate or honest. Contact your CC company and get a chargeback while you still can.

In the future, pay with PayPal.

Based on the emails Garden Roses LLC sent out today, I have put a post out on Rose Geeks. I really wanted the best for Garden Roses LLC.....

Right, it's not anyone's job to tell other people what should be acceptable to them in a matter of broken trust.

You can get a chargeback even if they are out of funds, that wont stop your credit card company from helping you or your bank. I hope that people will now file for these things with the proper card companies and banks. You don't have to accept that you won't just get a refund.

--- leaving the link to this post for those seeking information on getting refunds --

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6438292/garden-roses-llc-information-thread-condensed#29024539

He literally mentioned in an update months ago that they had reserved funds for any cancelations. I could swear it was in an email. Struck me as an odd thing to mention. Never would cross my mind to touch money I haven’t earned yet. Such a red flag. This was sometime in late fall or early winter. I

Store credit for what lol? There is no merchandise! I’m getting a headache just imagining what these candles would smell like. Would you trust burning them in your home knowing who they came from? Someone with a large order can get a bunch of trash candles. some random rose or wait for an imaginary rose to show up someday? How is a candle an alternative?. Unreal. Do they know some people have allergies to candles and that they are TOXIC to indoor birds?

To be fair most businesses don’t have the reserves to handle everyone wanting a refund at once. Even established and reliable businesses are often leveraged using past income and loans to fuel future production.

That said, if a product cannot be delivered, the customer should get a refund, seeking any availble means. It is as simple as that.

And LOL on the ’Candles and T-shirts instead of Roses’ option. How many takers? And I guess since it’s an LLC, they won’t be held responsible if their candle overwhelms your poor indoor bird.

Only if the T shirts say

Ive been Scammed by

Garden Roses LLC

I've been asking about their plant tags but no one responds. Has anyone ever gotten plant tags? You don't have to propagate tags & the laser engraver is shown on their page. I would order 100 tags if it were legit. It's confounding they would put so much energy into creating the mirage of a business then not put in the final ingredient.

Kitty, please see the screenshot below where they said they will no longer be offering refunds

Elestrial,

Often businesses do not know they ”can’t go back on their policies… their guarantees…. ” That is often how it starts. What a shame to not honor his policy, a breach in PA law. Refer to his policy on his website…. I posted his policy to give refunds…..attached above….. He is required by law now to give refunds if customers request them.

Customer may choose to work with him by purchasing other products or waiting for delayed orders. as an alternative, too.

I see he had some wonderful ideas starting his farm.

Heart breaking to see a business not make it. I wish there was a way honestly to bless everyone and his business.

Submit email to your bank or CCcard Co. & they will pursue taking care if it now.

I was able to get a full refund but it does seem like I am in the minority group with that. A sad and strange situation all around. I hope those who have tried but not gotten a refund yet are able to succeed with a chargeback

I received an email from Tess last Wednesday regarding my order being cancelled and that i was being refunded. She said per Shopify, i have to allow 10 days for it to hit my account, which in my experience with refunds, shouldn’t take longer than 2 business days. I still haven’t received it and I’m pretty concerned with this new message they sent out. What an unfortunate fiasco!

My thinking is that they have literally run out of cash. In a business that money from purchases goes back in to the business. They had no idea that there would he a ”run on the bank ” so to speak and ran out of refund money pretty quickly. I still do not believe that this was an intentional scam or there would be no refunds . I think that they have no idea what they are doing and are now floundering in the mess. But, like I said, I have only 1 rose ordered but it would ge a different story if I was out 100’s like a lot of you.

I agree, Kristine. Given their history, I can fully understand why so many on this forum do believe this is an intentional scam. However, there are enough indications to me that they really were intending to run a business this time, but they jumped in headlong and seriously didn’t know how to run a nursery, either from a business or an agricultural standpoint. And they have run aground. It’s very sad and will damage their already ruined reputation. I would like to see them get on their feet, but they will need to first learn under someone else who knows the ropes. Hopefully, they will be able to do this. Trust will not be easy to regain, but if they are willing to be honest, humble, work hard and work under someone who knows how to run a nursery, it could be done.

Quite frankly people should be calling the credit card companies and banks for refunds based on the fact they’ve been defrauded and not received the goods they’ve paid for. They can’t stop the charge backs from happening and people do have a choice.

Whatever else happens with this people should use the tools they have to protect themselves.

The plant tags aren’t that hard to do — it would require some work for him to produce and make them.

or whoever owns a Cricut maker 3 – could simply make your own — a cricut joy would get job done as well — depends on if you want engraved or vinyl — cricut maker 3 engraves

But they weren't running a business.

Businesses sell things-- the only things they have sold are dreams.

This excuse that "all small businesses have it tough in the beginning"  are for places like family-run mini marts that are struggling to survive on profits.

There is zero reason that money should not have been in a trust account until product has been shipped. Obviously one or both of them should have had another job to pay their bills-- not using money that wasn't theirs yet. That's what makes this fraudulent, and not "a struggling small business" .

There have been mentions on this thread of Fisher misappropriating funds from the Lehigh Valley Rose Society (or was it the American Rose Society?) and being expelled from the group as a result. Are there any public-facing sources relating to this, or has it all been word of mouth? I'm just wondering where this info came from (sorry if I missed it somewhere in this thread).

If he did in fact misappropriate funds from a rose society, it would make it even harder for me to believe he had pure intentions when he set up his rose business, so that's why I ask.

I hear what you’re saying, Carla. It could hardly be called a business because it wasn’t grounded on reality and common sense business practices. But it does appear to me that their intention was to start a business, though they seemed to have little to no idea how to do so. It also appears there has been fraudulent activity and dishonesty on various fronts. There’s no excuse for that. However, I still do not believe the original intent was to set up a scam, even though it has degenerated into what is essentially a scam.

TheGableGarden, thank you for giving clear direction to everyone on this forum about how to recover funds lost to this unfortunate venture. You have repeated the directions thoroughly and often and completely absolved yourself of any responsibility in the matter.

@judijunebugarizonazn8

I feel that I've informed people enough about how to get money back from this particular issue and I hope that in the future that this level of money won't be absconded with so easily in the rose industry. I frequent small business, family owned operations, and the like in the United Kingdom. My particular interest in roses was founded on David Austin and will continue. I have no problem with supporting people starting out in business, what I can't absolve is people not being forthright with the customer base. I hope they get it together for the sake of the 3 children. (I have sympathy for any child in this situation). Outside that I have no sympathy for the adults who haven't owned the mess they made from the start of the problem and pretending everything was fine. Had they made just one different decision they would be in a much better position and that I hope they've at least learned from. Time will tell I suppose.

Speaking of scams, has anyone got their exclusive roses from Grace Rose Farm yet ? It’s been almost a year , promise after promise and the runs around from them and still no roses

Check the Grace thread. And I've not received my exclusive Ashley rose, but I haven't waited as long as you, though too long for me. Diane

It’s been nothing but excuse after excuse. I don’t think I will ever see those roses. At this point I just want my money back.