As a group four feet is a good average size for all of them. And none of these ball. The only gallica I have seen ball on a regular basis is President de Seze. Glorie de France usually maxes out under four feet tall. It grows wider than tall.

Just what I wanted to know. Thank you, Lance.

My experience with GdF is quite different. It was a monster rose for me. At least 8x8 and this is with good pruning (1/3-1/2 off) each spring. This rose can take all space you give it. My GdF was also from Pickering. I SPed it because it was very prone to BS. There are so many gallicas that are happy here. I didn't want to have a oncebloomer that requires regular spraying, but it always gives incredible show in spring.

Tuscany -healthy, can be 6x6 if she likes the spot
Duc de Guiche- not typical gallica growth. More stiff canes. Can be 7 feet tall and only 4-5 wide for me. Quite healthy.
Belle de Crecy - smaller than others on your list, 5x5 with prumnning. Most years it is healthy, but not always.
Belle sans flatterie - 6x6 for me. Not as healthy as others on your list, but more healthy than GdF.

None of these ball for me.
Olga

Olga, I found a pic of Harryshoe's Gloire de France, and it too looked very large and spreading, more wide than tall, as Lance said. But very large, so thanks so much for the info.

I've substituted Duchesse d'Angoulme for the GdF and cut a couple, so I'm going to order Duc de Guiche, Tuscany, Belle sans flatterie and Belle de crecy. That's five, which is five more than I have space for right now, but fifty fewer than I want. I can see these are addictive.

Are there any other thoughts? thanks, Gean

Experiences from another climate. I have all except Duc de Guiche and Belle sans flatterie. None ball but my climate is dry in spring and early summer.

Agathe Incarnata is a little taller than the others here. Recent gene mapping has proved that it is a damask rather than a gallica. My Gloire de France stays decidedly smaller than the others, perhaps because of too much shade.

Marianne in Sweden

Pickering has restocked their gallicas in the last couple of days and Charles de Mill is available now, so I added that. I mention it in case anyone else wanted it.

I saw a robin today - spring! Thank you, Mariannese. I hope to see some blooms next year.

I have Belle de Crecy, Tuscany, and Charles De Mills; they run about 4 ft, 6 feet, and 3.5 feet in my climate.

No robins here yet.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog

This is GdF on the right. It does spread and spill into the driveway. This might be because it is stuffed between a large fir and a yew. Its completely shaded on the other side. That's a rhododendron on its left.

Olga,
GdF never gets BS here. You must have some major-league spores down there!

{{gwi:213838}}

Hmm, I'm wondering if we are really talking about Tuscany here. For me, own-root, it's very short. It's the shortest gallica I grow, at less than 2 ft. Tuscany Superb, OTOH, is a much larger plant. When I saw them side by side (at the Roseraie at Bayfields), I liked Tuscany much better, so that was the one I ended up with, but the size difference was quite noticable.

My Gloire de France is still young. It's also stuffed between the Apothecary Rose, and Capt Samuel Holland. So far it's sent up about two canes straight up, and is noticably taller than the Apothecary rose.

Harry, unfortunately, yes. I do believe we have it bad here. And it is not just me :(
I know Lori had similar experience with GdF here, it also BSed badly for her.
I really love this rose, if it could be grown w/o defoliation here, I would certainly keep it. It has great fragrance, always one of the first roses to bloom and the bush covered in blooms is breath taking.
Olga

Any thoughts on Hippolyte? bad me, I added that one too. Up to seven, delivery April 1. That will give me time to buy dynamite to blast holes in the glacial till.

Thanks for the pic, Harryshoe. That's the pic I saw. Truly beautiful.

'Hippolyte' shows its China ancestry with long, arching canes that tend to make it work as more of a small climber than a shrub. It can get untidy quickly, and like many China/Gallica hybrids, it makes the most presentable shrub when pruned into a tidy rounded plant in late winter. (I take hedge shears to mine, shortening the last season's growth by about half, never allowing the shrub's outline to expand by more than 6" each year. That way it is not only self-supporting, it makes a very attractive globe of large blooms on well-spaced panicles.) Otherwise, be prepared to train its canes onto a low rail fence or something similar.

'Hippolyte' is a wonderful rose; its luscious purple medium sized blooms are produced with generosity, have a decent fragrance and the plant is, more than many China/Gallica hybrids, quite disease free. (in my garden, YMMV)

Tidy, rounded plant it is, Paul. Thanks for the pruning tips.

The problem I have with once-blooming old European roses here is shriveling rather than balling, the summer dry season being well enough underway at flowering time to interfere with the full expression of their flowering.

At least that is what appears to be happening.

bboy, when do they bloom for you and which ones do you have? do you have pictures?

Paul, thanks for the tip to trim Hippolyte! Wish I could go out at once but there is too much snow. My old Hippolyte is a sprawling monster but in an out of the way place so it's almost forgotten. How nice if it could become again the nice rounded shrub it was the first years. I try to shape other gallicas but I am often too tenderhearted and cut too little.

Mad Gallica is right, isn't she? Tuscany is much smaller than Tuscany Superb?

I'm wondering if Professor R's Tuscany isn't superb?

I'm not sure anything I have right now is a Gallica per se. My main display is populated partly by ones I have not identified, them being gifts from a collector who did not provide labeling.

You're right Connie, it is Superb....I got it from Heirloom and that's the only one they sell and when I checked my plant map, it says Tuscany Superb.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog

Hi,
I don't grow GdF on your list anymore because it was blackspot prone.

Tuscany - bullet proof 5x5
Duc de Guiche - 3.5x3.5, mine is struggling, might not like its spot
Belle de Crecy - 4x5, likes to spread far but I chop at the runners
Charles de Mills - 5x5, bullet proof, likes to spread

Found some old pictures of my GdF.
{{gwi:232686}}
Olga