I am not sure about the definition being used for deserts. I very rarely, eat a meal followed by some sort of cake, cookie, pie or ice cream.

However, I have a variety of snacks every day. In fact, my lunch is generally some type of fruit (banana, grapes, cherries, apples, peaches, apricots, berries - whatever is in season), a few cheese cubes or cottage cheese and maybe some pretzel sticks or chips or nuts. It isn't a traditional meal, but a combination of snacks that I eat over a few hours in the middle of the day.

In the evening I may have some popcorn or chips or ice cream or some type of cookie/candy/pie or ice cream. Usually two to three times a week.

I like a good pastry and may have that for a breakfast instead of cereal, toast or eggs. I love having a hardy meal of bacon, pancakes, eggs, home fries and toast, but I don't want that much food at breakfast, but will make it for an evening meal.

Is it desert if you just eat a slice of pie for dinner?

My mother always said it was important to feed your soul as well as your body. We translated that to meaning that we needed to eat chocolate. Chocolate releases endorphins that make us happy - being happy is good for the soul, so we not only need to eat what is good for our bodies, but we need to eat chocolate for our souls.

" My mother always said it was important......"

This is another example of advice many may find to have as a good reason to NOT follow as to follow, because of the source.

I don't count fruit as a dessert because I have that for lunch/brunch as a main course every day. Growing up, my mother made pies, cakes, pudding, sticky buns from scratch every day and there was always dessert. It's a wonder I wasn't 200 pounds with all those calories beside a home-cooked noon meal. She was a stay-at-home and the best cook ever, and spent every morning making these delicious dinners always with a new dessert, and if she for some reason didn't make a dessert apologized and offered ice cream. I am not her. Her fruit pies were to die for. Maybe my husband thought I inherited those cooking genes, and he was sadly mistaken. I am not a huge chocolate fan and prefer salty snacks more.

lily, some of my best memories growing up are the ones around the dinner table. My mother always set a full table. I don’t remember ever eating a meal at home as a child without a table cloth on the table, and all the correct silverware. (even breakfast, and lunchtime when we came home from school for the lunch hour)

Dinner time was when we all sat down and had the most enjoyable conversations. I remember waiting in the front yard and seeing my dad walking down the street in his business suit and knowing we would be eating as soon as he changed into his around the house clothes. My dad encouraged us all to tell him about our day, and he would tell us all about his. He was a very funny man and had a way of finding the humour in things.

Dinners were quite a drawn out affair, but nobody seemed to mind.

Getting back to desserts, my mother usually made a baked item. But on the summer days my dad drove to work, he would often climb out of his car with a brown one gallon jug of A&W rootbeer that he had picked up on the way home.

We knew that we were going to get rootbeer floats for dessert.

Right after dinner, we’d go and sit outside on the patio and enjoy them.

Oh, and I can still see my dad resting a bowl of ice cream on top of his teacup after dinner. . He’d do that to soften it up. He’d be talking and listening the whole time.

🤠

Never. I really do not care for sweets.

@Elmer J Fudd - you missed where I said "we interpreted"

" you missed where I said "we interpreted"

I didn't miss that. My comment considered what you said.

@Elmer J Fudd - then I am thoroughly confused.

"This is another example of advice many may find to have as a good reason to NOT follow as to follow, because of the source."

I assumed you said this because we interpreted her advice to mean we should eat chocolate as it is good for the soul.

But you are telling me that I am wrong. You didn't miss the "we interpreted".

Does that mean you find fault with a mother saying that it is as important to feed your soul as to feed your body? You don't think that we should be concerned with nourishing our children's minds, character, spiritual health? As long as we feed them good food and they thrive physically the rest is unimportant?

Or are you saying that the advice shouldn't be followed because it came from my mother? "The source". We're you trying to be humorous? I know you don't know me well enough to sling an insult at my mother?

roxsol..Your family dinners were a lot like mine. Father walks in in his business suit and washes his hands. He didn't change clothes because it was a noon meal and he went back to the office at 1. All my life to that point, I thought people had their main meal at noon, not realizing this wasn't the case. We had the tablecloth and all the good dishes and silver but that's where your family and mine were different. I just remember the excellent food but since it was just the three of us(only child), there was no conversation and no one asked about my day ever. Good food, lovely house, nice clothes, but not such great parents.

lily, I’m sorry about your parents. I know that my three sisters and I were very fortunate.

Both my parents were very involved our lives. They were lovely people.

Your comment about thinking that all people had their main meal at noon made me smile.

Both my mother and father felt that breakfasts needed to be hot. We usually ate porridge or Shredded Wheat, which was fine, but when we had boxed cereal, like Corn Flakes, we ate it with hot milk as well.

I did not know that Rice Krispies actually snapped, crackled, and popped until I slept over at a friends house and her mother served it with cold milk. 🤷‍♀️

I took it to mean either you do it the same way because that is your family way or you don't do it because it was your family way and you don't want to do things that way.

Children accept what their parents do, good and bad, right and wrong, because they have nothing to compare such things to and they don't know better. Parents set examples and teach their kids good and bad things, reasonable things and cockamamie things, and always have.

Typically when thoughtful kids reach adulthood and in the ensuing years, they reflect from time to time on what was and wasn't done in their childhood homes, what good and bad habits their parents had or didn't have, and learn to see their parents as they really were, warts and all. And which practices they find suitable or not suitable for their own INDIVIDUAL preferences. And then move on from there.

For me, to say "this is what WE always did" or "this is what MY parent said" suggests an absence of critical reflection. Maybe you like some of these practices you were exposed to and wish to continue with them - that's then your adult choice. Not because of how it was done when you were 6 years old.

We raised our kids with care and priority. We encouraged and enabled their educations. We tried to make them appreciate that they are not special flowers in the big world with special entitlements. And to be reasonably aware of the world around them and to think critically. Every time I've seen any of my kids make thoughtful independent choices to do things THEIR way, different from MY way, that's a success that makes me proud. Not a failure.

A bit like murraysmom said but different.

My parents raised me that way. I raised my kids that way.

I think most people are that way. I don’t know anyone who has reached adulthood and is still bound by what was done in their home as a child if they didn’t like it.

I liked dessert after dinner, just like my parents. I still do.

I didn’t like hot milk on Rice Krispies. I starting using cold milk.

Whatever my daughter does with her food, I’m fine with. It doesn’t make me proud or not proud. 🤷‍♀️It just is. I don’t think my parenting had anything to do with it. I’d love to chalk it up to terrific parenting, but I can’t.

I hate over analysing stuff or taking credit for things that to me are just normal behaviour. It’s unproductive and kind of self-serving. I don’t like doing that. Others may see it differently.

edited for clarification🤠

My father, who was waited on hand and foot by my mother, would roll over in his grave if he knew his grandson, granddaughter's husband, and great-grandson did all the cooking in their homes.

Maybe twice a week, with a cookie thrown in mid afternoon. I go to Mah Jong once a week, and somehow it became our tradition to have a dessert mid gaming. I have run out of ideas for desserts. Should I start a dessert thread? Any other mah Jong players out there?

" Whatever my daughter does with her food, I’m fine with. "

My comments were intended to apply broadly, not nearly so narrowly as this comment with a trivial focus suggests.

I have never had the chance to play Mah Jong but a dessert thread would be fun. I have company visiting so we have a few new treats in the house. I have a lot of fun with sweets. Both my parents did as well. Then you add in my Step Mother of raised me who always wanted to eat her dessert first in case she got full or… LOL

@Elmer J Fudd - I understand now that you quoted my comment out of context to illustrate a completely different point. Thank you for the explanation.

I do often quote things that I learned from my parents because they were not only exceptional parents, but were really pretty amazing people. They had strong convictions and values and taught us through example. There was nothing more important to them than their children, but they found time to be pillars of our community, doing everything in their power to make this a better world. Dad was a devoted physician. Mom was a stay at home mother, but was always supporting or leading charitable activities that supported our community. It was a time when things were changing rapidly. They taught us to love learning, to embrace change and to stay true to our convictions.

They taught us to be self-assured, to stand up for ourselves and others, but to also accept that we will make mistakes. They taught us the importance of owning our mistakes, learning from our mistakes, taking responsibility for making things right and the power of a sincere apology in mending relationships harmed by our mistakes.

I consider myself exceptionally blessed to have been born into a big, loving family with parents who were not perfect, but were truly good people and exemplary parents. I am 64 and have childhood friends who still talk about how they loved coming to our house and loved my parents. My parents were born in the 1920s, so their peers have mostly passed on, but there are still people who remember them fondly and share stories about ways my parents touched their families.

I think it's nice that you have warm memories and strong emotional feelings of gratitude and nostalgia concerning your parents. I simply think that in expressing your perspective, you're overstating their influence and missing an important factor.

Without going into too much detail most would consider boring, my experience (admittedly limited the same as yours is) and assessments suggest that very often parental influence over what kind of adults their kids ultimately become is limited.

Let's define a successful outcome as being when an individual has set and worked hard to reach and maintain worthwhile goals that frame their adult life. Whatever those goals are in the socio-economic spectrum, it doesn't matter. I know many people who have achieved great success (goal achievement) who came from miserable childhood home situations. Limited or absent parenting. Negligible financial and/or directional advice and guidance to help their kids establish themselves in life circumstances they chose to achieve. I've known very many others who were the opposite, coming from kid-centric homes with involved parents from whom was provided all possible guidance and advantages, and who failed to become the kind of adults they'd wanted to become.

The common thread is the important influence each individual has on their own trajectory. I believe THIS is the major factor on outcomes, not the plusses and minuses of parenting. To me, it's no more reasonable to blame parents for an individual's own adult misfortunes and problems, than it is to credit them for personal successes.

That's what I was trying to express.

" I understand now that you quoted my comment out of context to illustrate a completely different point. "

Sorry, I missed this comment of yours. My intent was to consider your comment very much in the context you used.

You said:

" My mother always said it was important......"

and I said

"This is another example of advice many may find to have as a good reason to NOT follow as to follow, because of the source."

I have a close friend who laughs about her misfortune to have been born into a family with the most miserable parents imaginable. The topic comes up from time to time. She was self-motivated, self-financed, and self supporting after high school, which was when she left home. She set goals and worked hard to achieve impressive success in her adult life (as I defined success above). She realized as a young teen that she needed to steer clear of any suggestions her parents made and find her own way. Which she did.

Another quick anecdote - one of my kids has a dear friend from college who came from a poor family in a small town, nearly rural setting. In a part of the country not known for enlightened thinking. She had high aspirations for herself and decided the first step would be to go to a top university. Her parents had expected her to get a job after high school - that was not in her life plan. She got admitted to a top school far away and paid for it on her own, with loans (that her parents agreed to sign for but told her they would not cover), summer jobs, and work-study that the school provided, to cover a portion of their charges plus living costs. Not one cent came from her parents. They could have afforded to give her a token amount as a gesture but as I was told, apparently saw no need to.

As graduation neared, she received a communication from her parents (I think a letter) asking if after graduation she would be moving back in with them or getting her own place to live somewhere in town. Oh, and had she found a job? She responded to them, saying in so many words as I was told - I've gone to college so that I don't have to spend my life in the unpleasant town where you are. I'm not moving back.

Of course a parent's influence over the kind of adult their child becomes is limited, every child is an individual with their own strengths and weaknesses and genetic influences. Children are also influenced by peers and society and their own life experiences.

However, I do believe that parents/primary caregivers have a greater impact than any other singular influence. Children are sponges - they soak in everything around them. Talk to them, read to them and they learn language skills. Playing counting games with the cheerios on their high chair and they learn to count and be fascinated by numbers. Give them crayons and let them explore color and they learn about colors. Every behavior you expose your child to is a learning opportunity. If they watch you physically fight with your spouse they will learn that this is acceptable behavior. If you lie they will learn to lie. They see everything, hear everything and soak in everything.

My parents raised 6 children. We are not clones of one another, but we did all grow up with the same parents and learned most of our values and behaviors through the example they set.

Three of us got married once and stayed married. Three got married and divorced. Each of us had success in our careers, but some were more successful than others. Each of us contributed to society in different ways. My oldest sister was a pediatrician and took care of the children in our community. I was highly involved with charitable organizations that cared for animals and children and people who were disadvantaged and organizations that focused on battling discrimination and equal rights. We all learned from our parents, but took those lessons and adapted them to work with our personalities, our strengths, our individual interests.

You may be a great parent and raise 3 children who become happy, well adjusted adults and have one that loses their way.

You may be a lousy parent and have a child who decides they are going to live their lives very differently than the way they were raised.

But overall, your influence as a parent is going to stack the odds in favor or against your child's likelihood of growing up to be happy, well adjusted adults.

" I do believe that parents/primary caregivers have a greater impact than any other singular influence. "

I couldn't possibly disagree more with this statement. It's contrary to what I've seen over and over again. I've cited examples I know of people who made something of themselves by ignoring the paths their parents had in mind for them and the poor examples they set. I can cite more similar examples and also the opposite, kids who grew up in families with very accomplished and involved parents who became directionless, unmotivated losers as adults despite their childhood environments.

We don't need to agree, trading views is worthwhile. I'm curious - did you have the experience of being a parent responsible for raising children?

I just saw this post & thread. I’ll reply to the original light hearted question - How Often do you have dessert?” Not often. But, how often do I have a sweet treat? Well, that’s a horse of an entirely different color! Maybe 3-4 times a month on average. If we have house guests or dinner guests there is certain to be an after dinner offering. Depending on the guests it might simply be really good chocolates or, if it’s a group of friends for dinner I likely have a pretty treat from a bakery to serve. If the dinner wasn’t great the dessert will be what they remember! Or, it might be really good ice cream. If it’s my sister who is the house guest, it will certainly be something she baked! Left to our own devices, my DH & I will indulge in a great ice cream treat while out & about. Years ago, we used to go to Marie Callandar’s restaurants & have pie for dinner.

@Elmer, since there is no test to grade parenting skills or a test or grading system to determine what success as an adult looks like and we can't control all of the outside influences that contribute to that unknown success there is no way to prove how much influence parenting skills contribute to the success or failure of adults.

But it sounds to me like you are trying to convince me that it doesn't matter if you are a good or neglectful parent. Kids are predestined to grow up and be a certain way and parents are just there to provide food and shelter and have no or very low influence over the success or failure of the child to thrive as an adult.

Yet if we look at the imprisoned population we find that this population is far more likely to be functionally illiterate and to have suffered childhood adversity (physical abuse, emotional abuse, neglect, witnessed domestic violence . . . ) than the non-imprisoned population.

There is a very strong correlation between reading to your children and literacy skills and that early literacy skills are high indicators of future literacy skills. Read to your kids and they learn to read. They are more likely to enjoy reading and will have larger vocabularies than kids who did not have parents that read to them.

So you can increase the chances that your child will end up in prison if you don't read to them, and you do physically abuse them, emotionally abuse them, neglect them or expose them to domestic violence.

If bad parenting increases the risk that your child will end up in prison then the inverse must also be true - good parenting lowers the risk that your child will end up in prison.

Boy did this thread get derailed.

lonejack, as a retired railroad employee, I know this is something you're familiar with. But for me, it doesn't apply here. Face to face conversations in the real world meander and morph. Where they end can differ greatly from where they started.

jennifer, you first said (and I disagreed with) this:

" I do believe that parents/primary caregivers have a greater impact than any other singular influence. "

Then just now you've said:

"there is no way to prove how much influence parenting skills contribute to the success or failure of adults."

I agree with the second comment, which, like my view, contradicts the first. The same parenting environment produces dissimilar outcomes among siblings and similar outcomes can come from dissimilar circumstances. These possibilities disprove your first comment.

And now, I think, we're back where we started.

Have a nice day.

Well, I'm having dessert right now. Maybe should be popcorn...

If bad parenting increases the risk that your child will end up in prison then the inverse must also be true.

Simply because a conditional is true, does not automatically mean the inverse is true.

Maybe should be popcorn

Enjoy your dessert. Guilt spoils the flavor of good desserts.

I miss Glenda.

Elmer, We are not saying the same thing at all. You are saying because you get similar outcomes from dissimilar parenting and you get dissimilar outcomes from similar parenting obviously there is no linkage between parenting styles and outcome.

So the same thing should go for eating habits. You can have an unhealthy diet and still live to be 100 and you can eat all the right foods and live a healthy lifestyle and die at age 30.

We all have different genetic makeups, but parenting well gives your children a better chance of being successful adults and eating a healthy diet gives you a better chance of living a long life. Nothing is guaranteed. There are different things that may influence either a child's success or the length of your life, but good parenting is like eating a healthy diet.

Jennifer, you contradict yourself from one comment to the next.

I think this dead horse needs no further beating.

I keep debating starting a thread about how people view what I call "thread drift."

It is a nuanced subject. Certainly some threads would be inappropriate to stray at all. I am thinking of serious subjects (deaths, sad/hard conversations we sometimes have here), as well as the personally meaningful or happy ones where people are giving us glimpses into their real lifes.

However so much of what we talk about here is pretty "fluffy." A thread about ice cream isn't a deep subject. 😄 So if a fluffy conversation evolves naturally then it doesn't bother me at all, personally. However everyone is different and I have seen thread drift really bother others.

To me, the fluffy threads are chit-chat and that meanders in real life too.

As I am fond of saying, I can be weird. (I mean no harm to anyone, ever. 😊 I just march to my own drummer, always have, and so sometimes I mess up societal norms...)

TL;DR - is a thread about thread drift useful, or am I the only one confused.

Signed, clueless.

I think thread drift often makes conversations more interesting. When I participate in same, it's not with any intent to derail (thanks Lonejack) the conversation. More to offer thoughts that come to mind or to respond to what someone else said to or about me.

" I can be weird. (I mean no harm to anyone, ever. 😊 I just march to my own drummer, always have, and so sometimes I mess up societal norms...) "

Well, sometimes that's me too. Though I much prefer the word "different". I'm not consistently clumsy with "societal norms", just sometimes a bit irreverent with no harm or insult intended.

That I often see things differently than others do or from unconventional perspectives has been a useful and productive trait. And interesting for me to do. Especially in my professional life. I rarely think "inside the box", and that was my reputation in a positive and respected sense. It's less used and less useful to me now.

I see conversations as being a kind of like word association - you hear something someone says or a subject mentioned that triggers other thoughts, what comes to mind? Share it with others.

Rarely. My willpower isn't great, so if it is around, I will eat it. I never buy desserts, except sometimes ice cream, and if ice cream is around, I will eat it every day.

I have really cut back on sugar. I quit sodas after trying for about 40 years. Now I only drink water or unsweetened tea. I am getting ready to move, and I have found that my energy level is best with few carbs, but I will make an exception for ice cream.

I am getting ready to move

Where are you moving?

Only about 4 miles away. This place was built 50 years ago. Was a horse farm....huge 12 stall barn with vet area, wash area, office, feed room, and tack room, and almost the whole place has board fences. Upkeep is a nightmare. I can't do it. The barn needs work, and the fences....touch them and they are like paper now. We never should have bought this place, but my husband was terminally ill, and tho we had a buyer for the place on the bayou, he had to sell his first. He also had a buyer, but they had to sell theirs. It took about a year for everyone to get their money. By then all the places we had looked at had sold. Everyone was in a hurry to move, but we should have taken a couple of weeks and had a realtor show us some other places. But, being in a hurry...added to the stress of knowing my husband didn't have long and his health was deteriorating rapidly, we bought this one. Shouldn't have. So now I hope this is the last move ever. August is not a good month to do all this. (It was August when we moved last time too!)

I hope the move goes well. Are you taking the concrete water lily ponds? Have you found a buyer for your current place?

Oh gosh, GOOD LUCK Marilyn. Moving under any circumstances is stressful. I agree moving in the heat/humidity of August sounds awful to me. I hope it goes smoothly, and I hope the new home is everything you want it to be!!

Also, once you're settled, I'd love to see you post more. I love reading what you write/share.

@Elmer J Fudd

Jennifer, you contradict yourself from one comment to the next.

I think this dead horse needs no further beating.

This was extremely rude. You are the one who has contradicted themselves multiple times from stating that you did consider the content of my first post when you went on to say that people should not place such importance on doing things the way their parents did things.

I never said they should and my comment was not at all related to the way my parents did things. In fact, it was a humorous statement about how my siblings and I related eating chocolate to feeding ones soul.

You then explained how you raised your children and how proud you were when they showed that they learned critical thinking skills and did things their own way instead of the way you do things.

You then belittled me for giving my parents too much credit and went on to say that parenting has little impact on how children turn out as adults.

So you can be proud of your parenting skills but don't think others should give their parents credit for good parenting?

The credit I give my parents and my belief that parents have great influence over the way their kids turn out has never waivered. I never said that there weren't exceptions or that there weren't other influences, just that good parenting prepares children to be successful adults and bad parenting can really harm their chances of being a successful adult.

One thing my parents taught me was to own my words and my actions. Apparently yours taught you to defend, divert, deny, and disengage.

My admiration of my parents and my belief that parenting is the most important job you will ever hold has not changed and will not change. Keeping true to your beliefs doesn't lend itself to contradiction.

On that note we can agree to disagree and be done with this conversation.

Jennifer.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/6505606/still-reading-the-stuff-from-jefferson-fisher#n=8

This was extremely rude.

1. Don't take the bait.

A narcissist wants you to say something ugly.

Because the moment you do, the focus shifts.

Now it’s about your reaction—not their behavior.

They flip the script, and suddenly you’re the problem.

#3. Sometimes walking away is the answer.

The win isn’t in having the last word.

It’s in deciding not to play the game at all.

You don’t have to stay in every conversation.

Especially the ones designed to tear you down.

" You then explained how you raised your children and how proud you were when they showed that they learned critical thinking skills and did things their own way instead of the way you do things. "

Yes. This is my perspective. Not theirs.

Lucille, why not contribute your thoughts to a discussion rather than toss pointless jabs that add nothing? Do you have any comments to bring to the topic?

Lucille is offering a strategy to disengage from a discussion on sweets that morphed into a discussion on parenting and then became a challenge.

Most people don’t enjoy having their beliefs challenged just for kicks.

The best discussions here include various viewpoints, frequently intended to be helpful, that do not denigrate other ideas. Nobody needs to win.

And nobody needs to resort to name calling or making comments that are personally insulting and not focused on what's being discussed.

Feel free to disagree with me or anyone else and say that my comment is the dumbest thing you ever heard. That's your view of my comment, not of me.

I think name calling is a sign of personal insecurity. If you have a view and confidence in it, someone challenging your view is challenging the view, not you personally.

1. Don't take the bait.

A narcissist wants you to say something ugly.

Because the moment you do, the focus shifts.

Now it’s about your reaction—not their behavior.

They flip the script, and suddenly you’re the problem.

#3. Sometimes walking away is the answer.

The win isn’t in having the last word.

It’s in deciding not to play the game at all.

You don’t have to stay in every conversation.

Especially the ones designed to tear you down.

I do not agree Lucille. Sorry. When you must self edit lest you say something that sets off the Bully you have not lost a conversation. You have lost your voice. Your opinion, your point of view is lost. For most of us no one is trying to win anything. We are hoping for an interesting exchange of ideas are we not? It is a sharing but with some people that isnt going to happen. If we stand together to support all points of views even the bully then we can have that.

patriciae

Lucille, I plan to take the concrete troughs...and the horses, dogs, cats, fish, water lilies, and 20 water lily tanks. I have not listed it for sale. I have several people interested in it. I have found a place and the owners are holding it for me. (It wasn't for sale, but they like me and I inquired about it, and they want me to have it.). It is an older house but has a new roof, septic, plumbing (PEX), and several other recent updates. They did the work because they planned to move into it, but they have 50 acres nearby and decided to build on it. It is a bigger house than I need...4 bedrooms, and has 2 kitchens. One, I would call a mud room because you enter it from the back door, and it has cabinets and sink like a regular kitchen, but they call it a canning kitchen because a former owner had a huge garden and canned a lot of their produce. The house has so much storage. I have never seen an older house like that. Plus several outbuildings and each one has has storage.

It sounds wonderful!! A canning kitchen, what a luxury! I hope all goes smoothly, but that is some serious moving. Is there any chance you might consider a delay so you don't have to move in the heat of August?

I look forward to pictures of the critters and your new home, whenever it is all done, meanwhile I hope you can rustle you up some hard working help for the move.