MAC or New Dawn? House eater rose for DFW .

11 months ago

I have a blank wall that faces east by northeast it is two stories sloping to one story and it has no windows. There is no garden here - just grass up to the brick. Seems like a great open canvas for a house eater. I think I'm between Madame Alfred Carriere and New Dawn but would welcome other suggestions. The slight tilt of the wall to the north makes this wall have less sun than a straight east facing wall- so shade tolerance is a factor. Also, I live in Dallas with its alkaline clay and scorching heat. Here are factors I'm considering in the order of importance to me:

Disease resistance - especially blackspot. This is the first rose I'm planting at this house but I had roses at another place I lived in DFW and therefore I'm well acquainted with blackspot. I don't want to have to spray this rose. Especially if I need an extension ladder to so :-)
Bloom and rebloom quantity / quality. I have already dropped Cecile Brunner as I've heard the climbing version doesn't rebloom much it at all so this is an important factor. I like teh idea of this being a regular feature in my backyard.
General health of the plant. I like a healthy looking rose plant but know the shade may create some compromise here. Would prefer to not have to fertilize too much. Especially anything not organic. I don't want to have to amend or topdress soil aside from initial planting.
Ease of training - pretty sure MAC wins this one going away, but its on my list. Behind the others, but would be interested if anyone things New Dawn really isn't that bad. I've seen her but never had one so I don't know how bad it is to train really.
Individual bloom quality / performance - I haven't seen MAC in person. Would be interested in how long blooms stay on etc. Both look nice in pictures. Other items above would be much more important though.

Any input would be helpful. Looks like there isn't much activity on the Texas forum anymore but Gardenweb was a great resource to me 15 to 20 years ago.

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Comments (9)

fig_insanity Z7b E TN
11 months ago
last modified: 11 months ago
You only need to know one thing. New Dawn will eat a house, yes indeed. But New Dawn eats humans for dessert.

It's one of my favorite roses; the porcelain pink is ethereal, the buds are perfect, the blooms are romantic. Completely disease free here. But....THORNS. Wicked, evil, blood-sucking, unavoidable, vampiric THORNS. My three ND are allowed free reign up their respective trees. Once every three or four years I suit up in armor and prune out the dead wood. Otherwise, I admire them from a distance.

My nephew, who used to help me with garden chores, re-christened ND as New D*mn, as every time he came near it, there was a freshly minted "d*mn!" floating blue-ly through the air.

EDIT: if you'd like to see what ND can do, in spite of the warning, there's a video on Youtube that might still tempt you into folly, lol.

New Dawn video
bart bart
11 months ago
Har har, fig-SO TRUE. Another truly "evil" rose is Adelaide d'Orleans; that is the only rose I can think of that truly can compete with New Dawn for the wickedness of the thorns...
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A new climber may make bushy growth the first year. You can leave this to help cover the bare legs that will develop later. Once established, ND will begin producing powerful shoots from the base that will grow 8'-15' before stopping with a cluster of blooms. Let these grow out until they are fibrous--don't try to bend the glassy new growth out near the tips. Then bend the cane down in a shallow arc and tie it down. If it is a tall fence, create a fan of canes at different levels, setting the first long canes down low if you can bend that far. Later these primary canes will produce weak lateral shoots all along their length that will bear flowers, especially in spring, but some through the summer and fall. Cut these lateral shoots back to a couple of leaves after the blooms fade. There will also be some stronger (3'-8') lateral (secondary) shoots. You can cut these out after blooming to preserve the lines of the fan--or tie some of them down to fill in gaps if you wish. If the fence is an open mesh, don't weave the canes into the fence but rather tie them. I use thick, soft, brown twine. If there's nothing to tie to, stud the fence with screw eyes or run thick wires horizontally. After several years, you can remove a few of the oldest canes at the base each year at spring pruning time or just after flowering. The best bloom comes on canes that are 2-4 years old. Also ND will overgrow and become an impenetrable tangle if you don't thin it out occasionally.
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Wow crepuscule is a beauty! Berndoodle...no I am not totally committed on having a climber there, I just thought it might look neat. I am definetly open to all other suggestions, climbers or not! I already have a MAC planted on one pillar so I will dig her up ASAP and move her to the side of my house where she can climb her little heart out :D Or is it really hard to train her to become a self supporting tree? Please forgive these questions as this is my first year I have roses. So far in my little lot I have planted: Mutabilis, ballerina,( 2 )the fairys, belindas dream, ADAM, and duchesse de brabant, and MAC. I must say that the duchesse is doing the BEST so far (well the MAC runs a close second). I planted them all around the same time and the duchesse just is a non stop bloomer! And her foliage is perfect! Even in the heat and humidity, and I currently do not spray. Speaking of sprays, does anyone have a particular one they can recommend to a total newbie? :) I wanna make sure I take good care of my babies :) Another question on crepuscule: Does it actually climb well you does one have to provide alot of support for it to climb up? Thanks
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SCG - sounds like you have a choice that suits you, and all of us on GW understand having preferences and wanting to be different from the norm around us. I agree with Henry that Folksinger is a terrific rose and it blooms consistently through the summers in part shade and in my zone 4 pocket of my yard. Johnnycabot, SCG - glad you like the pictures as well as the cane hardy list! I'm always happy to share them and enable fellow cold zone rose people. Henry, that's fascinating to see all your rose crosses! You should start a thread of these on your own so more people have a chance to see these! I particularly like #436 from New Mexico and #324 Prairie Harvest X R-15. And oooh, if #325 cross between Folksinger and Illusion turns out to be a climber, I really want one! That's exactly the color I'd like to see in a good hardy climber, and with those parents the odds of good winter survival are excellent. Since these are the "keepers" are you planning to propagate and distribute them any further? Cynthia
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Glad to hear other gardeners who have 'Awakening', just because I like it ('New Dawn', too). FruitCat, it may comfort you to know that 'Jaune Desprez', while beautiful, is pretty thorny as well: one of the roses in my garden more notable for this characteristic. The rose is so lush and soft-looking, I let down my guard and get speared. Mrs. Gartin, I appreciate your perplexities but can't offer any help, as I don't know anything about roses in cooler zones. One thought about the rebloom, however: have you considered planting for sequence of bloom, roses, yes, but many other plants? Or looked into once-blooming roses that have different flowering periods? I can and do grow many repeat-flowering roses, but also many once-bloomers, because I think they're beautiful. If you got early-, mid-, and late-flowering kinds, you might have quite a long rose season. Add many other flowering plants, and you can have something in bloom most of the year, at least, most of it that you'd want to be out in the garden.
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Eric
Original Author
11 months ago
Thanks for the warning! I was thinking you helped make my decision. But then I watched the video 😆
User
11 months ago
I've not found 'Mme Alfred Carrière' to be particularly resistant to Blackspot. YMMV, of course.
fig_insanity Z7b E TN
11 months ago
last modified: 11 months ago
@bart bart The only house-eating rose I know of that is WORSE than ND, thorn-wise, is Mermaid. Thankfully I'm not even tempted to grow that one, as it is NOT hardy here. But it is a stunning rose in full bloom (in someone else's garden), and I'm convinced from photos I've seen that it could eat Mt. Rushmore, if it were only a few zones farther south, lol.

The saving grace here is that Mermaid doesn't *require* pruning, so the only caveat is to not plant it near anything you ever want to find again.

Mermaid's flower

Mermaid's size

Mermaid's THORNZZZZZ
BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
11 months ago
How about Peggy Martin ? There is a huge display of it a Fort Worth Botanical Garden where it’s doing very well and could definitely eat a house.
Diane Brakefield
11 months ago
Grrr. I hate New Dawn, and I've grown several. Ouch. Diane
fig_insanity Z7b E TN
11 months ago
last modified: 11 months ago
@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) Peggy is a great suggestion. I have one in a 15 gallon pot (I know, I know) that I keep meaning to put in the ground. Even in a pot, it has canes at least 12 feet long, and would be longer if I didn't have to whack them back to keep her from smothering other roses in my pot ghetto. Thornless, VERY healthy here, vigorous, hardy (unprotected except for our one week of near zero F before Christmas 2022). I don't detect a scent, and the flowers are smallish, but they are abundant. And it's somewhat shade tolerant. Perfect for Eric's site.

A stellar rose. I should have thought of it first, lol.

Renae is another great thornless rose (that I should have mentioned sooner). I'm not sure how shade tolerant it would be, as mine is in a full southern exposure, climbing up an old apple tree.
Eric
Original Author
11 months ago
Thanks for the Peggy suggestion- will be looking at that more closely. Beautiful. Really appreciate it!! Good to know MAC may not be as disease resistant as I heard before

MAC or New Dawn? House eater rose for DFW .

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fig_insanity Z7b E TN

bart bart

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MAC or New Dawn? House eater rose for DFW .

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fig_insanity Z7b E TN

bart bart

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