Back with a new plan for review…

last year

last modified: last year

After a phone call with Doug and Nick over the holidays, we went back to the drawing board and found someone locally who is not only available to work with us, but can keep us on our original timeline to start our build this spring.

A 45 minute meeting Monday with some plans I made and a short Zoom call later in the week, and this is what we received today. So we’re making up for lost time!

Front entry garage was decided on for several reasons (access to front door, connection to kids/guests coming and going, landscaping/fencing options, retaining east overflow parking area for up-and-coming drivers, greater allowable width etc) so we’re making the best of it.

Active pre-teen son (11) in the basement (hockey training area can be closed off for other uses and accessed through the garage - my husband also plays and coaches and is very involved in youth and adult sport so there will be lots of hockey players of all ages hanging around... sound-proofing under the master bedroom IS on our list to discuss). Teen daughter (13) gets the bonus room suite with lots of potential for future use of the space as she gets older.

Exterior finishing textures were just a starting place he chose, but I would like a grey straight-edge shingle and white trim.

Question on stone/brick skirts - in Western Canada with snow/wet climate is it something that is a good idea? I prefer the look without… but my husband said they’re there for a good reason. Looking around our area, there are many homes with and without so I don't believe him ;)

I made some changes from the little I’ve learned in my short time on this forum...

I thought a consistent window height looked better, and losing the transom and extra height above basement stairs window left a lot of space so lowering those gables all together so it ties into the same roofline... better or worse?

One thing I didn’t play with the design of to see what it would look like was the columns, but I thought they should be tapered with a wider base… they look a bit thin to me in proportion to everything else. Also, I thought a wider step and columns on the step vs ground?

And rear elevation, over the master windows: I thought a plain gable would work better and tie in with the rest of them (instead of whatever that type is called). Any good reason to keep it as he designed it? We just have a regular overhang now and aside from occasional heavy rain, the windows stay dry.

On the floor plan I marked up the small changes I saw to discuss.

For the main guest bath my request was more privacy for bathroom use from the living space, so he added the privacy wall but I think moving the office entrance and great room opening makes more sense to me...

Thoughts on the bathtub wall build-out? That side of the house is a side yard with current hedge/future fence - and will have a concrete slab with air-conditioning unit adjacent to bathroom wall. I guess it adds 'something' to the right elevation... but not sure that it is something I like.

I know the dining room location off the foyer isn't a favourite for everyone from what I've read of past posts, but we are very casual in entertaining and the connection between the table and kitchen is important to us. I found a picture online and personally love it for our family.

I welcome all of the opinions here, and any suggested changes or considerations for the overall plan before I complete these markups as suggestions to discuss and send them off after the weekend. I trust our designer and he's been so great to work with in this short time, but it's nice to have many eyes (and so many decades of combined experience) give feedback.

I attached what I had in mind for the change to the master bedroom window (more privacy and furniture options vs two windows, and better for patio usage with grill etc.) as well as an ensuite tub/shower idea I saw to replace a freestanding tub.

65" alcove tub (I am 5'4 so seems like a better choice than a 6' tub for me) and I thought the knee wall on two walls with half glass + door. We have a full frameless glass in our home now, and the less glass to polish the better in my opinion.

My changes are the front elevation image on its own - and the original design is included with the rest of the elevations.

Thank you!

Featured Answer

Architectrunnerguy

last year

When we talked, one of our biggest urgings to you regarding the original was to simplify the forms. It's better to do one thing very well and build on that with details (thank you @res2architect for that). You've still got five different window types, four different gable sizes and two different materials, one of which has two different heights. Do one thing strong in lieu of a bunch of stuff that competes with each other.

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Comments (119)

User
last year
I like the porch gable in A, and the windows in C. These simplifications make the house look much more inviting!

I would consider removing the light above the entry door, though.

Is it reasonable to think that these spots would look better all the same height where the roofline connects?

Yes, I think they would look better all on the same height, or at least have the bottom of the porch gable level with the bottom of the garage's.
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Mark Bischak, Architect
last year
Those 'spots' are there to accommodate the variation of ceiling heights inside the house.
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What did you mean by: 'because unlike to chop close to garbage as well'? Is there an easy way to tell me what would be your organize system below your island? Will you have drawers? Cabinets with doors? I think you mentioned something about open shelves, is it beside the cook top or below the island? Another option for your robes if you find them far to get them you could reserve an 8" empty space (or so) beside the wall where the shower is and put hooks there. The only think is that if you have more than one hook, you would have to take the clothe on the first hook to reach the second clothe: I think even if your husband is a big guy, you could make your WIC 7'2 3/4" wide and it would still be fine. In that case, your office would be 6'6". But it would not allow for 6'0" double door for your entrance closet though. I think you need about 6'8" wide closet to put 6'0" with a door frame closet around it (that would need to be check with your contractor). However there are standard doors 32" wide or I think you can get custom made doors but they are more expensive. Note that you could make your office 6'6" and your entrance closet a little longer to allow for 6'0" double and its frame around it. The few extra inches stolen from the WIC would still be ok to hang regular clothes ... or put your robes there as already suggested. EDIT: Since you need to make your entrance closet longer to be able to get wider doors, you could keep the closet as 7'4" as you had originally.
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lianicole
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
Those 'spots' are there to accommodate the variation of ceiling heights inside the house.

Ahh yes, ceiling heights. We haven't discussed that in detail yet. These were the very preliminary elevations and I've sent off revisions for review today.

We have 8' ceilings now and they're just fine for me! There's something about really high ceilings that feels unsettling for me energetically, and temperature-wise I like a warm cozy space.

For this build, my husband and I talked about 9' in the kitchen to make cabinets simpler/more accessible, and a transition to 11' in the great room. If it's 9' throughout I would be happy with that.

If this was done and we did no transom above the entry as @User suggested, 9' in there might work well and leave less wall space above the door - and then there's a bit more of an impact with the great room height.

A nice tray ceiling in the master bedroom was another idea, but I could take it or leave it.

Not sure about an 11' great room height and vaulting the covered porch off of it though. Is that still doable?

This is what I found for an idea for changing the big slider off of the great room (one set of doors to access the patio nearest kitchen) but I've asked our designer for more suggestions.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year

And a single entry over gable for more of this look... still not sure about this change. I like it myself, but my husband thinks it's too plain.

Ceiling transition option?
cpartist
last year
Porch gable in A, Garage gable in B and windows in C.

If it's 9' throughout I would be happy with that.

Do 9' throughout. You will find that a nice compromise height since you do like cozy.

A nice tray ceiling in the master bedroom was another idea, but I could take it or leave it.

It's a dated trend but if you like it go for it.

Not sure about an 11' great room height and vaulting the covered porch off of it though. Is that still doable?

My great room is 10' and I do love it but then again, i'm in Florida. Remember heat rises. ;)
lianicole thanked cpartist
WestCoast Hopeful
last year
I think 9’ ceilings are totally fine. And I know you seem to want the transom but it isn’t necessarily needed. Here we are in my kitchen looking out yo covered porch. It’s only 8am so sun barely up and not expected to be sunny today anyway. I never feel this is dark big picture. 9’ ceiling I believe
lianicole
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
If we do higher than 9' in the great room I think it will need the transom windows there. But with 9' in the foyer, the one above the door could go which would help with the differing window heights on the front elevation.

We have double French doors off of our dining room now (SW corner of current home on the property) and you're right, totally not needed with lower ceilings and still feels open and light looking out.

We are 28' depth from north to south on our house now (open-concept kitchen/dining and living room) and the light comes in there straight across the house from south to north. No covered patio here now though.

To keep as much of that interior light as possible without compromising on outdoor space, an open-ended gable and vault on the covered patio off great room with no cover on the SW patio is where we're at now - but it's still evolving!
lianicole
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
It's a dated trend but if you like it go for it.

This was my feelings about the tray ceilings too. I don't necessarily like it myself... it's nice enough but will probably pass on it.

My husband keeps commenting on how plain and simple things are becoming... he likes more of a 'wow' factor. And I’ll add that it’s often in a ’wow that is really bad’ way in my opinion ;)

It is not out of character for me to prefer things this way though - it's that way most of the time with me so, in the end, I think this build will reflect that.

Functional and bright, and hopefully more timeless than most of the builds around here.
just_janni
last year
I've found that taking a drive in an older, desirable neighborhood (maybe closer to your downtown) or early suburbs that are currently "very hot" in real estate right now - and looking at the style of home that is there - you'll see that they are simple in form and massing but with GREAT, high quality details. Good heavy trim, period windows, decent overhangs, CHARACTER that comes from a presence of how the house sits on the site, landscaping, etc - not tons of added things that don't serve a purpose.

I see these houses in my area - some are SUPER SIMPLE colonials - but boy do they scream quality and you are just drawn to them.

maybe that will help?
lianicole thanked just_janni
cpartist
last year
Functional and bright, and hopefully more timeless than most of the builds around here.

You are definitely on the right track.

Remind your husband that classy is understated and simple. Too much bling winds up being trashy and trampy and shows you're trying to hard.

A good example is the movie Pretty Woman. Think of how she looked standing on Hollywood Blvd vs how she looked in understated clothing and hair and makeup. Houses are the same. The ones that stand the test of time are the ones that don't try too hard.
lianicole thanked cpartist
K H
last year
@lianicole simple is definitely the way to go and often less expensive. I love the exterior photo of the white house you posted. It is very classic. We went with a single gable, and we have 9’ celings throughout. Our home is very energy efficient throughout all 4 seasons.
lianicole thanked K H
lianicole
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
I love the exterior photo of the white house you posted. It is very classic.

I do love that look too but after looking at it, I think the width of the garage needs something to balance it on the entry so still working with the double gable unless someone convinces me otherwise.

I am envisioning it in colour with exterior lights, landscaping, the contrast from the window glass (still undecided whether to go with this window style or something with more grills), something with more interest for the entry columns and I think the weight of the garage without the step back/double gable is the right choice. I know once it's in colour and 3D off of paper and built with this woodland backdrop we have here it will look a lot different!

Still working with quite a few window sizes, but open to any suggestions to improve that.

What is the opinion on decorative vents?

Here are the updated elevations! We kept the rear wall the same (it must have been better to keep it with the roofline because I did suggest it) but opened up part of the patio.

Right elevation is an unseen/not used part of the yard but I think it could use some trim there like on the garage.
cpartist
last year
The double gable doesn't balance it.. And in back the double gable is way too much. Simplify
lianicole thanked cpartist
lianicole
Original Author
last year
And regarding bathtubs, I don't think I want a tile deck on the tub as I've heard they can be a bit awkward to get in and out of.

Should I ask that anything be changed for that on the plan, or is it correct that it is just inset from the shower if there is no deck?
lianicole
Original Author
last year
The double gable doesn't balance it.. And in back the double gable is way too much. Simplify

I've been looking at the front so much that I need to spend more time on the other sides!

The garage gable is quite a bit wider than the entry gable so that was my concern there... that it would look dwarfed. But still learning here!

Our designer was even hesitant to lose the second one on the garage, and my husband prefers it with two as well but says he trusts me to choose so we're going with one.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
And in back the double gable is way too much.

It's actually not a double gable in the back... it's the back of the garage roofline. He probably did that to break up the length of the left elevation.
K H
last year
Some of my favorite ranch style homes on Houzz. This one has a single gable with shed dormers to let in lots of light. The other two have double gables and front facing garages that are angled not straight but they are big garages. Check out the back elevations of these homes too.
Falmouth Residence · More Info

Shagbark Residence · More Info

Indian Lore Residence · More Info
Mrs Pete
last year
It's a dated trend but if you like it go for it.

I don't really believe in "dated", but I've never seen a tray ceiling that I liked. They're kinda odd and ostentacious looking.

My husband keeps commenting on how plain and simple things are becoming... he likes more of a 'wow' factor.

Repeating what I said earlier in this thread: The trend today is to do "too much" out of fear of being "too plain". You don't want ALL your interest /ALL your wow to come from architectural features. You're also going to have color, furniture, accessories, landscaping. Keep the house itself simple and let your "wow" come from these other things.
The double gable doesn't balance it.

Exactly. The single gable looks larger, more in proportion with the large house.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
@PPF. That is a different look than we had in mind moving away from one story, but it's a good option too. I was wondering about how the dormer would look moved to the right and there it is!

Thank you for taking the time to do that.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
The single gable looks larger, more in proportion with the large house.

A rough play here with the single gable over entry and a couple of exterior lights on the garage... use your imagination on the landscaping - boxwoods, Quick Fire hydrangeas and smoke bush - that's what we have there currently and the deer don't seem to be interested in it so will likely do something similar.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
@K H That first one caught my eye right away! Thanks for sharing. Checking out the details on the others now :)
K H
last year
last modified: last year
@lianicole the single gable you just posted is much better! It is comparable in size to the garage gable and helps to settle the elevation and makes the front door more of a focal point.
lianicole thanked K H
K H
last year
I would make the windows in the front all the same height unless you were planning a bench under the window within the porch. The current window seems a bit small.
lianicole thanked K H
cpartist
last year
So much better!

Try it without the center column. I'd also beef up the trim around the windows a bit. Make the bottom a sill not picture frame.

Also ditch the circular vent on the porch gable.
lianicole thanked cpartist
User
last year
^ I agree with cpartist, and others who suggested keeping things simple.

All the superfluous flavor-of-the-year architectural details will quickly date your house, and you (and future potential buyers) might hate them someday. These sorts of details are also puzzling and distracting to the eye.

It sounds like you intend to live in this house for a long time, so I would focus on quality, functionality, comfort, and ease of maintenance. An excellent floor plan that will work as your needs evolve, then tweaking the appearance of the house to make it harmonious, a good quality build that leverages building science (passive heating/cooling, etc.), thoughtful use of sun and artificial light, making details excellent (amount and positioning of sockets/light switches, functional storage solutions, towel heaters? heated floors in bathrooms?, flood mitigation measures, "aging in place" measures, etc), durable finishes.

Then you can beautify with the elements that are needed for the house: exterior cladding, making the necessary columns pretty, landscaping, choosing nice-looking windows, lovely tiles in the bathrooms, etc.

All that will make your house amazing :)

Here's a video to illustrate my points (from a builder in Texas who has an incredible building science show on Youtube):
lianicole thanked User
K H
last year
Here is my home. Houzz users on here helped me simplify my design. We are still in the process of adding a brick apron, steps, and concrete flatwork (DH wanted to do it after the ground around the house settled, still waiting after two years!). And I plan to put cedar window planters under the two windows that are not as tall.
Jennifer K
last year
My husband keeps commenting on how plain and simple things are becoming... he likes more of a 'wow' factor.

Tell him to keep to simple shapes, but splurge on high end finishes and landscaping. That will add more "wow" than any number of gables
lianicole thanked Jennifer K
lianicole
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
Still looking at the entry gable(s) here! It's not feeling quite settled yet so haven't discussed it with our designer yet, but working through it this weekend to follow up with him Monday!

I did request the front porch window height be changed, as well as losing the vent (that was his added detail and I thought the round looked out of place with so many straight lines... if it was there out of need/function I think rectangular would be better.

The single gable you just posted is much better! It is comparable in size to the garage gable and helps to settle the elevation and makes the front door more of a focal point.

I agree with all of this! I have been looking at the front door location and seeking opinions on this. I've played around with leaving it as is, as well as centering the door. Leaving it as is requires the least re-working so looking to make the best of that option if possible.

Two vs three columns: would a middle column help to make the door more of a focal point if it is off-center? I trust your experienced eyes more than my own!

Centering the door looks a lot stronger to me, but would also require a re-working of the floor plan and elevations (likely adding width to move stairs as well as all changes to the back patio) and I am not sure is worth all the trouble for adding unneeded floor space and losing side yard space.

So if the door stays where it is, I am looking at the columns - two vs three... and also the potential of adding a railing (and landscaping) to help make the door more of a focal point if it is not in the center. Thoughts?

If anyone has any other ideas for the front elevation that maintain the one level + bonus room + front-facing garage, I'm all eyes! Having a teen daughter and friends overhead

is an after-hours dancing singing giggle-fest I would like to avoid.

Three columns and railing:

Door in centre - I believe there may be a lot of changes required to achieve this though...

Most recent layout - some revisions still to come:

Ceiling heights are to be changed to 11' foyer and great room - my husband's request - and 9' throughout.

Going with a regular alcove tub in the master over a tub deck because I found the deck to be awkward to get in and out of.

Also adding a sink in the garage behind the washing machine (at this point in our lives the tandem bay is not for vehicle parking - more for shop floor space. We have a skate sharpener in our garage (more hockey stuff) which will likely end up on that back wall, and the roll-up door will make a nice work zone for that as well as more functional access.

We kept the mud room coat closet as is. Kids can sit in there to take off their shoes and have a designated side for each of them to keep backpacks, shoes, coats etc. and I can just close the door to it. Bench/hooks at mudroom entry will likely end up as an entry table/drop zone and key rack.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
Also changed the front entry to have a built-in bench and a smaller reach-in closet vs the closet on the full wall.
cpartist
last year
Pull the 2 offices back so the back of the top one lines up with the living room like I showed in my sketch. There is NO reason not to do that an it eliminates odd roof angles and angles on the back of the house.

I believe the mudroom coat closet is too small to do what you want it to do. How big is it? I can't see the measurements.

I like the built in bench in front or I'd consider a cabinet in the niche with a mirror overhead. A place to drop keys, etc.
cpartist
last year
Oh and move the sink off the edge of the island and more to the middle. YOu want to be able to pull food out of the fridge, bring it to the right of the sink, then wash and then bring to left of sink to prep.

And you shouldn't need a window in the master closet to fade your clothes.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
Oh and move the sink off the edge of the island and more to the middle. YOu want to be able to pull food out of the fridge, bring it to the right of the sink, then wash and then bring to left of sink to prep.

Prep sink newbie... that makes sense! I don't want to break up the solid surface too much. We have a 38 x 64" solid island now (this is a secondary island without seating) and it's easily filled when we're working in there, so looking to maintain as much of the solid workspace while still being functional with the prep sink. What would you say is a good minimum for a landing space?

And you shouldn't need a window in the master closet to fade your clothes.

Being on the main floor, it will be some type of opaque glass in there for privacy which I would imagine cuts the UV (the same goes for the master bath - I can't be bothered with opening/closing and the dusting that comes with shutters or shades). I thought it would be nice to have the added natural light in there, and ventilation if desired.

I plan on having a full-length mirror on the wall across from the closet door and thought the added light would be nice to bounce back and fill in that hall when choosing outfits.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
I believe the mudroom coat closet is too small to do what you want it to do. How big is it? I can't see the measurements.

The mudroom coat closet is 5 x 5'11. I was thinking an 18" deep bench on the two walls with hooks above would work.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
Pull the 2 offices back so the back of the top one lines up with the living room like I showed in my sketch. There is NO reason not to do that an it eliminates odd roof angles and angles on the back of the house.

I did suggest this when we re-designed the back patio, but didn't discuss why it was left as is. I've noted it to ask. I can see how it will change that inset section of the uncovered patio on the rear elevation, but which odd roof angles do you see being eliminated?

I have a hard time translating the 2D and elevations to 3D with all the depth! Bits and pieces are clearer to me, but the entry and front elevation are not so much at this time.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
@cpartist I am looking at the changes you suggested (below) in more detail and wonder if the reason he left the rear wall as it is now has to do with the fact that I specifically asked for the main bath entrance to be made private from the great room/kitchen view. I had him change that from an earlier revision where there was a clean line of sight across the main floor into the bathroom. I will ask him, but that makes sense to me.

We moved the doorway so the entrances are offset and the view is a clean wall (future art), instead of who is coming and going from the guest bathroom.
K H
last year
With all of your covered patios. Might make it dark in your living spaces?
lianicole
Original Author
last year
I believe the mudroom coat closet is too small to do what you want it to do. How big is it? I can't see the measurements.

This would be another option for the mud room... not enclosing the space for a coat closet and just having built-in lockers to allow for more of an open space but still adequate storage.

Whatever is there I would just like it to be enclosed so it is always clean looking with the proximity to the kitchen, and master bedroom hall.
K H
last year
I wouldnt have an open bench then if you want to hide the mess.
Mrs Pete
last year
I see that the foyer closet problem has been eliminated, and the tub is no longer a bump-out ... but the majority of the problems that've been discussed here haven't been addressed.
lianicole
Original Author
last year
@K H With all of your covered patios. Might make it dark in your living spaces?

We've uncovered the southwest patio at the rear, opened the gable, and have a vault on the main covered portion to allow as much light as we can in the great room. Where we live we typically get 30-40º celsius temperatures and blazing sun for July and August, but then we also have snow and gloomier days through the winter so trying to find the best design for that... nice to have protection from the elements with the covered patios, but not at the expense of natural light.

Having the softer northern exposure on the front with the expanse of the covered patio is something I am looking at. On the one hand, with it being the dining room there primarily used at night I am not overly concerned about daylight there, but I know that too much cover will have it feeling a bit dull and flat in other areas.

I have markups that Frida suggested (below) and will discuss the covered entry during a site visit this week. If I am understanding correctly, she had shown to reduce the porch depth in front of the dining area (covered or uncovered?) but how it changes the front elevation and roofline is beyond what I understand at this point!
K H
last year
My friend has a super cute entryway coat closet/bench that her cabinetmaker built. Although drywall and framing is much cheaper this is so pretty!
lianicole thanked K H
lianicole
Original Author
last year
@Mrs Pete I see that the foyer closet problem has been eliminated, and the tub is no longer a bump-out ... but the majority of the problems that've been discussed here haven't been addressed.

I have been making notes and requests for many design changes so far (some revisions still to come from a few days ago), and more to be discussed at a site visit this week that will be reflected in the elevations.

I'll review the comments again in detail to see what I missed, but I don't believe I've overlooked 'the majority of the problems' and do appreciate every minute that has been taken to share such thoughtful feedback from everyone!

Things like differences in opinion about a pantry sink (still not settled on whether it stays or goes, but it's still on paper as a potential) or pantry size, or an extra half bath and things like that, my husband and I have had discussions and made decisions that suit our family and lifestyle and use of the space for how we live, and how we see the finished spaces with things like cabinetry and appliances (top load washing machine was one of them and my preference was to keep the window on that wall instead of a washer and dryer).

It's still changing and evolving! This is our first build and I am doing the best I can here to learn as I go. I really am grateful for the support here though and have learned so much!
cpartist
last year
last modified: last year
What would you say is a good minimum for a landing space?

18-24"

I plan on having a full-length mirror on the wall across from the closet door and thought the added light would be nice to bounce back and fill in that hall when choosing outfits.

Put good lighting overhead instead.

The mudroom coat closet is 5 x 5'11. I was thinking an 18" deep bench on the two walls with hooks above would work.

Not much room for 2 kids to sit on the two benches. Do you currently have a powder room that size? I do and I can't imagine two kids in there, with the door open and benches 90 degrees from one another with two teens sitting on them. I still maintain that a reach in closet with a bench across from the closet would be better. I'd suggest you try mocking up the room size with boxes, etc and see if it will work for your kids now, and when they're a foot taller. ;)

This would be another option for the mud room... not enclosing the space for a coat closet and just having built-in lockers to allow for more of an open space but still adequate storage.

Definitely better. :)
lianicole thanked cpartist
cpartist
last year
@cpartist I am looking at the changes you suggested (below) in more detail and wonder if the reason he left the rear wall as it is now has to do with the fact that I specifically asked for the main bath entrance to be made private from the great room/kitchen view. I had him change that from an earlier revision where there was a clean line of sight across the main floor into the bathroom. I will ask him, but that makes sense to me.

We moved the doorway so the entrances are offset and the view is a clean wall (future art), instead of who is coming and going from the guest bathroom.

See below. I just solved your problem. Took me 3 minutes. :)
lianicole thanked cpartist
cpartist
last year
Oops, just realized I used the old bathroom layout but the concept is the same. I flipped where the pieces of the bathroom were including the closets.
lianicole thanked cpartist
lianicole
Original Author
last year
Thank-you, @cpartist! That would be an easy fix, but my husband insists that the rear wall cannot be pushed back without changing the roofline and pitch of the main roof completely.

It's beyond my understanding of construction, but on my list of things to discuss this week.
cpartist
last year
I don't see that the main roof pitch would be changed as you're not changing the center area of the house? Maybe one of the architects could weigh in.
cpartist
last year
Or is this his way of trying not to change all the bling like the extra gables, etc?
lianicole
Original Author
last year
I think he was looking at the overhang on the back wall where we’ve uncovered the SW patio (which we want to stay uncovered) and the implications of moving that wall.

The beauty of this design process is that anything can be changed on paper, but we’ll see if it’s a viable option!
cpartist
last year
^^^Exactly. And it's a heck of a lot cheaper to do it now.