Ditch the uppers, opt for drawers and gain accessible storage without the upper clutter.

We can never have too much storage!

Ok, so you are taking out that heavy roaster pan from the oven - can you set it down without having to take a step or two? I recommend the cabinets next to the ovens allow for generous counter space to set hoitems from the oven.

Just an observation - and no offense intended - I see in the view of the bar area that you have lots of stuff. Maybe you DO need more cabinets.

(Unless, of course, the stuff I see out on the counter is out because of the changes underway. In that case, never mind.)

I would reconsider the coat bench area because of the visual clutter of coats and bags, but that might be a me issue and not a you issue. I’d rather have a mop/broom place than a bench place.

Agreed wih what Valinta pointed out about a landing space for oven. What if the area to the left of the oven became an upper and lower cabinet with counter landing, and then a cabinet for mops to the left of that?

In another thread, someone had dings in their fridge door from it opening and hitting the open oven door. It’s hard to believe that could happen but there was proof. Maybe it is prevented by a filler piece between the oven and fridge? I’m sure another expert here can address that.

@Elaine Doremus Resumes Written I completely agree!

@Valinta I have the same set up now and I just go from the oven to the island. It hasn't been an issue in 16 years, but maybe a counter next to it would be nice.

@littlebug Zone 5 Missouri No offense taken lol! We usually don't have that much stuff there. We do like to display a couple sports related bottles on the counter. We just remodeled our bathroom directly above the bar and the ceiling had to come out. So everything was removed from the bar and not everything was put back in their spots (hubby lol). The bar needs a whole overall as well. Really would like to redo the cabinets in there and do all drawers. But we'd probably go with a similar color wood and these cabinets are in great shape, so it seems silly to change them.

@hhireno I'm leaning that way too. I don't like a lot of clutter (hubby says who cares...it is just us here lol!). But it would be a good landing place for purse, keys, etc. Right now those items end up at the desk area. Maybe the counter in the laundry room could be new landing spot for those items. Great point about the fridge hitting the open oven. Hadn't thought about that. I'm not excited about having two counters on that wall, so I'd have to rearrange some things to put a counter to left of ovens and get rid of the one at the other end. A counter between ovens and fridge would probably be best, but that would put the fridge directly behind the island :/

What about adding a wall with a glass panel pocket door (frosted or something that lets in light but hides clutter) and extending the laundry/bath into a laundry/bath/mudroom? Here's an example (not a fan of "pantry" on the door but that's a personal choice). All your utility "stuff" is hidden but light isn't blocked.

First, I completely agree with getting the cooktop off the island, so good work there.

I see a few issues with this layout that go beyond the pantry...the biggest issue being that you have an island with seating but you do not have an aisle large enough for it. 36" is what you need to EDGE PAST - that's shuffle sideways. You need 44" to be able to walk past, but most pros would recommend at least 48" for a kitchen aisle with seating.

I would also strongly consider a range instead of a cooktop (you will get more cooking space with a range as well). If you want another oven, add a single oven IN THE ISLAND, or get a double oven range. I would also not add seating on that side of the island, even with these changes. I would keep a stool or 2 at the far end.

The landing space issue is that before you had an unimpeded island directly across, and now you only have the side of a counter run as direct landing space, and that counter is likely going to be used for anything on the stove as well, so it's doing double duty. You don't have dedicated space directly across or next to your ovens. Your fridge has to stay where it is, though, so the only way to get better landing space is with a range, where landing space could be on top of the stove if you're not cooking, or across on the island.

As far as your pantry, consider breaking it up into a broom closet and actual pantry cabinets. A larder pantry would be a good way to go here. 24" deep shelves are not good in a pantry. Here's an example of a larder:

https://www.houzz.com/photos/brook-green-traditional-kitchen-london-phvw-vp~27862891

You can't add a door like @spagano suggested and keep the appliance layout as is, and with only 37" to the fridge door, you can't move the fridge. You also can't put the ovens in line with the island as the oven door will knock someone sitting at the island on the head.

@spagano I originally thought about a door there to create a mud/laundry room (bathroom on opposite side of kitchen). But figured the door would be open all the time anyway and then really there was no point in doing it :/

@anj_p Yes...hate the cooktop in the island! We will only two seats at the one end. If we ever have seating on the side of the island, it would be during the holidays. When we have guests over, we'd be in the dining room.

I started out thinking about getting a double oven range, but the lower one is so low. I just don't think it is for me. So then decided on range with one oven and a wall oven with microwave above it. Then changed to microwave drawer and wall ovens. Range with one wall oven is still up for discussion. The only good spot for our trash is in the island so not sure about oven in island. If I can get trash under the sink, then maybe oven in island could work?

Oh wow...a larder pantry looks amazing! Definitely something to consider! Thanks :)

@User She is a KD. I prep to the right of the sink/in that corner now. So I assume I will continue to prep there or the island. I have similar setup now and the island is the landing spot for everything. What are the other many issues?

I would skip the extra cabinets on the island and add that space to the aisles (island 41-42" deep). Use only two seats for everyday meals for yourself and hubby and eat at the table on holidays when the kids are home. You can add a little extra storage by turning the island cabinet on the end toward the cooktop/range, and also ease the aisle in front of the fridge at the same time (no seat on that corner). That would also allow you to move the ovens to the right of the fridge for easier access to the island landing space.

I put the sink off-center to the window, to give you a bit more prep space between it and the cooktop and added a 36" corner susan with trash pull-out to the right, under the prep space. The faucet can still be centered on the window to disguise the asymmetry.

NKBA guidelines

New to Kitchens? Read me first.

Discussions--all drawer bases

Discussions--dishes in drawers

@mama goose_gw zn6OH I was thinking of losing the storage in the island so it could be narrower. The end of the island by cooktop has a 7" deep cabinet for spices. And it probably doesn't need to be 36" wide. Funny you put the sink off-center to the window. That is how it is now and it makes me crazy lol! I guess if the faucet was centered on the window it wouldn't be as bad. Thanks for all of the ideas!

IMO you need an actual KD not some cabinet person. There is no way I would want my cleaning stuff or coats hanging in my kitchen All your base cabinets should be drwers and a kitchen is designed for how you store stuff , how you cook and what you need to store IMO the only way a 24" deep pantry works is if it is a true pullout if not all you do is constantly move stuff to get to other stuff. Cooking in an island is poor design always and that island makes no sense Too many poor choices so I would say back to the drawing board pretty sure you can do better

The end of the island by cooktop has a 7" deep cabinet for spices. And it probably doesn't need to be 36" wide.

The spice cabinet could move to the side facing the sink (7" deep x 24" wide), with a wide drawer bank across from the cooktop to house pots and pans:

@Patricia Colwell Consulting The cleaning items and coats are currently behind bi-fold doors in the utility portion of the pantry and not near food items. It is not uncommon to have a utility cabinet in a kitchen. It would be at the end of the wall closest to the garage. 90% of base cabinets are drawers. And I'm not cooking in the island. Maybe you are looking at the picture of my existing kitchen which is the first pic?? I am working with a KD and not some cabinet person.

@mama goose_gw zn6OH That could work...thanks!

Youneed landing space next to your ovens and fridge. Icant believe a true KD designed that space without landing zones. Thats just poor design

Also your aisles are too narrow. 42” is minimum if you’re the only cook, but if you have more th an just you in the Kitchen you need 48” aisles

@cpartist I don't have landing space next to my current wall ovens. I haved used the island as landing zone for 16 years with no issues. I have french door fridge so I always use the island and not the counter next to current fridge. This new plan has a landing zone behind the ovens (the counter to right of cooktop), so that is about the same space as I have now. And it is about 2.5 steps to get to the island. We currently have 40" between the ovens and island counter and 38" between fridge and island counter. We are small people and it is plenty of room for us. We don't cook together but we are both in the kitchen moving around and I don't feel like we are ever in each other's way. I've been paying more attention here lately to make sure. This first plan is based mostly on my ideas of what I think I want and she tweaked it a bit. I think she's trying to give me as much storage as possible since I'm freaked out about losing our super annoying large pantry lol. She's out of town this week and my homework is to measure out everything and see what we think. I do already think the island needs to be narrower. So I would probably eliminate the storage on the one side if we keep the appliances as-is . And the cabinets next to cooktop 21" instead of 24". I am considering a range and oven in ithe sland as @anj_p suggested. But I'm doing a microwave drawer and I need to see if it will fit in island next to oven. We're doing Cafe appliances and the only other built in microwave they offer is a convection oven/microwave. I surely don't need three ovens.

Not having a landing next to the oven is fine until it isn't. I burned my wood floor when I had to drop a hot cast iron pan I was baking bread on and I was not steps to the landing, just a pivot. You have the space for a landing so why not have one. You're doing an expensive remodel. No need to "live with" what seemed to work before. Now is the time to optimize. Your space is big enough to get everything you want. Keep at it until it's near perfect. It'll be worth it in the end.

@cheri127 Oh wow...that's a bummer! I'm trying to wrap my head around using a landing for the ovens. I have never thought, oh it would be so much easier to have a landing next to the ovens. Since I'm short and right-handed, I remove items from the left side of the oven and just pivot to the island. For a landing, I would have to have a hot pad there to set my pan or whatever on, then close the oven and relocate pan to island where I would complete the next step. It just seems like an extra step? It makes perfect sense to me if there is no island. In this new plan, I basically would have the same thing, but it would be a counter (next to the cooktop) that I would pivot to. I appreciate your comments and everyone's suggestion about the landing. I'm definitely giving it a lot of thought now! So much so that I've stopped worrying if I have too many pantry cabinets lol.

@User I am considering a range and giving much thought to a landing :)

I would consider putting your drawer microwave next to the fridge instead of in the island. You could do it under the bar counter. Best place for a microwave is close to the fridge/freezer, as that's mostly where the food will come from that's going in the microwave.

I don't think having landing space NEXT to the ovens is that big of a deal, but I do think your space is a bit small and likely to be cluttered with cooking stuff that will need to be cleared, so it's less than ideal.

@anj_p Makes sense to have the microwave close to the fridge.

Hubby and I have gone back and forth trying to decide if we even need two full size ovens. The only times they both are used are at the holidays. So I think we are now considering a range and then a smaller oven that could go next to the fridge. Cafe has one that is a 5 in 1 oven/microwave combo. But don't know if it will look weird to have a small oven all by itself in a cabinet? I'm sure I will change my mind 10 more times before I finally make a decision.

I'm about done with this kitchen project and it's only just beginning!