if he can save you money, do things you wanted done and you've seen his work and like it - hey, go for it!

he wouldn't be in the phx AZ/EV area would he? I need one like that! lol!

i don't know what the EZ cab(upper) is tho... I don't like the LS corner either... are those drawers ones that go straight in - in toward the corner point? if so, that'll be good use of the space.

don't know what that color scheme is ...

my LO is similar to yours - except my fridge is where your DW is and my DW is on the other side of sink(closer to corner cab). I now have a wall oven cab where your fridge will go. the only thing in that I will change is changing the wall oven cab to just upper/base cabs w/ counter top.

did you see a sample of his painted cabs? what color are you having them done it? white?

what's on far back wall? pantry cabs?

how many total skinny drawers (for utensils, silverware) will you have? are you getting more drawers in base or putting in pull outs?

YOur layout still shows a regular corner base cab... is that the one you're going to change? I had thought (perhaps incorrectly) that those angled cabs actually took up additional real estate. Also, be aware that they (again, I believe) they make use of the corner more difficult since it's deeper. Are you planning to use your island for alot of prep work? You're counterspace is otherwise limited. One thing I think about when I look at your layout is if you could somehow orient the island space to make it more useful for prep/cooking/baking. Is this your main dining area? What is to the left of where you show the island? I ask because I'm thinking of some alternate layout ideas.

Sounds great BUT before you write a cheque make sure you see some of his work - not talk to one of his references over the phone - actually touch, feel and really inspect his craftsmanship.

Don't want to sound like a wet blanket but it never hurts to be careful. If he's on the level he won't have a problem with this.

Good Luck :)

hi guys...

desertsteph- I haven't seen his painted cabs, only a stained cabinet kitchen. He emailed me a pic, not sure that helps too much. I've asked for some references, and will talk to someone who had painted done. We've talked a lot about how I'm concerned about that- he's talking to his uncle who paints kitchens cabs a LOT, and going with his uncle's recommended type of paint (similar to 'cabinet coat' i think?)...going for a off-white, like BM Dove White..doing light oak hardwoods (to match existing in dining room).

..and yes, that upper wall is two by 30 inch floor to ceiling (12 inch deep) panty cabinets, plus one 30 inch base cab for a 'landing pad'..will have a phone on it, be useful for setting down mail etc. Will top w/granite.

...island will have all drawers! (except for trash pullout in middle). Thinking that the corner base drawers (angled) will house most of my cooking utensils. Then the rest, and silverware, will go in the top drawer of the first 30 inch cab on the island.

remodelfla- yup, the layout attached is the old HD one, have to get an updated one from cabinetmaker. Also- its VERY misleading, because it doesn't include my doorways! there is a door to the basement to the left of my wall pantry (upper left of pic), and there's a door to the family room to right of the wall pantry (upper right). There's also a window in the bottom left of the drawing (my sink area is actually a 'bump out'.

...and yes, i think i'll end up on the island for the majority of prep work, so I tried to make sure that the cooktop/fridge/sink/trash were all easily accessible from there. However, right now (I have no island, just a pennisula that cuts my kitchen in half- juts out from where the new DW will go), I do a lot of prep work to the left of my sink. I figure I'll still end up there sometimes. The island will DEFINITELY be the family hub- main eating area, seating for all 4 of us, place for my girls (6 year old twins) to do homework while I cook...

..to the left of where i show the island is the entrance to the dining room. We are trying to reign in costs by keeping w/a similar footprint :)

When I think about traffic patterns in your kitchen I guess the one thing that's a little disruptive is that someone has to go right past the cook to get to the sink. Same for prep. In a perfect scenario (layouts are hard to get perfect) you'd go from food storage, to prep, to cook, to cleanup. Is it possible for you to swap the cooking and sink runs? Not looking to cause you trouble with your exciting remodel!

I think it's great that you've found someone to custom make your cabinets for around the same price as stock cabinets at HD. Well-made (& finished) custom cabinets will beat out stock any day! But, please see several examples of his painted cabinets that have been in use for a few years before signing a contract w/him. Painted cabinets and stained cabinets are not the same. Yes, the construction of the cabinets is the same, but the finish is very different and requires different skills & techniques. Those skills and techniques will determine the quality, look, and longevity of the painted finish.

As to your layout...honestly? It looks very cramped. You have very little workspace around the range and b/w the range and sink. I hate to say this, but the angled corner will make it worse...you will eliminate some of the space next to the range to move around. In this case, a right-angle corner is a better layout. IMHO, there's more wasted space w/the drawers than with a super susan...but, YMMV. E.g., a super susan can most likely hold all your pots & pans (and in a very convenient location) as well as colanders, etc. Mine did in my old kitchen...

Would a 36" refrigerator be OK? That would at least give you another 3" to the left of the range.

Unfortunately, this layout provides very little space to allow two people to be working at the same time at the sink and range w/o getting in each others way. Perhaps if you had a prep sink in the island it would help b/c all prepping (including cleaning veggies, filling/emptying pots, etc.) could be done on the island rather than in the small area b/w the sink & range. I know you're saying that you'll do all your prep on the island, but in reality you will most likely do most prep where you have access to a sink...and that means b/w the sink & range. It will just be more natural and easier (not counting the conflicts at the sink since there's so little room there.)

Seating overhang should be deeper...15" instead of what looks like 12" (24" cabs + 1-1/2" overhang on sink side + 12-1/2" seating overhang). The 3" less overhang will not make a difference in aisle space when someone is sitting at the island as they will still need that room to sit properly at the island...they'll just have more space b/w the counter and their bodies. Of course, if they sit sideways, it would help...but sitting sideways isn't very comfortable for any length of time.

You said in an earlier post that you can't change the layout...has that changed? (due to budget, we pretty much need to stick with the current blueprint-)

I know this is all coming out very negative, but when I see this layout all I can think of is how cramped you'll be. Spending a lot of $$$ on a kitchen that may not function very well would make me very unhappy.

Good luck!

Thank you all for your input, I will try to answer all questions:

remodelfa- in our kitchen set up right now I am pretty comfortable being at the cooktop and having hubby at the sink. Where is does get cramped is when he tries to open our DW on our pennisula, so I am thinking moving it to the left of the sink will remedy that. I also imagine my hubby & girls approaching the sink/DW from the aisle between the island and the window (see new layout). Then they can put the dirty dishes on the countertop to the left of the sink. Then hubby can stand at the sink, scrape plates into garbage disposal (which side of double sink? i'm right handed...currently have it in the small part of sink- which I'm thinking of changing to the large side because so much gunk ends up in large side)..then he can load the DW! :) Trash pullout will also be right behind him in island..

buehl- thank you so much for your constructive feedback, I appreciate it. I know this layout is not ideal, but without knocking down walls/losing dining room, etc ( I appreciate the pocket door we have to the family room when its noisy in the kitchen)...

..Fridge is already purchased, 36 " KA french door, freezer on bottom. HD wanted to put a 39" cab overhead, cabinet guy might be able to make that more 'custom' and gain back some inches there, good idea.

...we are pretty much a 1 cook family, I depend on hubby just for the cleaning. If we had more room I would plan ahead and hope that my 6 year old girls would grow up & cook w/mom, but its just a small area to work in.

...we do have some room on the wall to the left of the window (separates kitchen from dining room). Its about 54" wide, by 11" deep (11 inches till the trim for the window starts..window is only 23" off floor!). I am going to ask cabinet guy if its possible to fit a small corner unit in there...without impeding people walking by 4th chair at the island! It would be nice to have a 'coffee area'..

...budget constraints still in effect..we are aiming for an 'under 25K' kitchen!

PS note about following pics- currently my kitchen has soffits- at one point I thought I would keep them, but I've changed my mind- unfortunately they are still in the pic, and make it hard to see the upper cabs..

PS Good point about the lazy susan...However I really really don't like them! So if I can lose the susan and gain some drawer space I'd be really happy. My plan is to store the most-often-used pots n'pans in the bottom drawer of the 30" island cab closest to the range.

PPS..if anyone can think of a way to NOT have an OTR microwave..would really appreciate hearing your suggestions. I have a GE Advantium waiting in the garage(never used, 300$ for the 240V size, purchased off craigslist), but I'm sure I can resell if needed. My thinking was it would be my back up 2nd oven if needed, then I'd get a induction cooktop with a wall oven under.

-Would it be crazy to give up the 30" upper cab to the right of the sink and put the microwave there? then there would still be countertop underneath for stacking plates, unloading dishwasher etc... Glasses could go in cabinet to the RIGHT of the sink (which will be about 19"-20")..

I knew i had this saved somewhere and thought of you. I don't know if it'll be applicable or even functional but it's kinda cool... Couldn't get it to embed so here's the link

Here is a link that might be useful: blum space corner

Here's something you may want to consider. You said that the island will be your main eating area. I urge you to do a little mock-up for a few meals. Sit around your current table in the same arrangement you'll have for your island (three seats on one side, and one on the end).

For me, this arrangement would be fine for a snack or maybe even a quick breakfast, but it would drive me nuts for any larger, longer meals. This arrangement does not make for good conversation, and it does lead to a lot of strained necks. We have three seats on one side of the island like that, and when three of us are sitting at the island to eat, I always move one seat to the opposite side. The seat isn't there usually, just when there are three of us eating at the island (or four--but usually when there are four of us, we find it more comfortable to move to the nearby table).

Here's the kicker, though. I have both drawers and cabinets in my island, so when I move a seat around to the other side, I always open a cabinet to give me a place for my knees. This works out very well, and it's quite comfortable.

With all drawers, though, you won't have this option. I doubt you'd want to give up your drawer storage space, but seriously, if you plan to make this your main eating area, I really urge you to try sitting that way for a bit before deciding for sure on this layout.

Remodelfa- very cool! sent link to cab guy to see what he thinks. Might go with 45 degree angle anyways though, would give more space in drawer, even if I lose some room for my feet :)

Holligator- genius!! you are SO right. Yes, we do have a dining room, but we are planning on sitting at the island for the majority of the time, and NO I don't want strained necks. So...i am going to try to rework the layout so that my GE advantium can go UNDER my island- facing the wall pantry- so that my island will be all fat with cabs toward the range end. (then I can get a hood??!!)

THEN...I can shape the island to be more rounded at end- I should be able to get more like 2 x 2 seating there, yes?? very excited! maybe a pedestal type at end ...

Thomasville is a semi-custom line not stock. I thought he was buying finished doors but I gather he is buying unfinished paint grade doors and finishing them. That he isn't sure what paint he is going to use to finish them is a little disconcerting. If you haven't already I would get him to order you a sample door or two so you can see them and then get him to finish them so you can see exactly what you are getting. Building cabinets and finishing them are two different skill sets (fine wood workers may combine both but making cabinet boxes isn't really fine wood working).

Does he have a supplier who does finished doors? You might get him to price them as a factory finish may prove a lot more durable than if they do it themselves.

I'm a little confused... (again)... in the last rendering it appears as if your pantry is 24" deep but in the others I thought it was 12" deep. The 47" clearance you had from the island to pantry in the first pic was with a 12" deep pantry.

Hi again...

caryscott- yes, I believe the doors he orders from can be ordered finshed- but I think he mentioned then you have to be super careful to 'match' the boxes he would paint to the already-painted-at-factory doors... might be worth it though, if more durable? what would you do?

remodelfa- it appears that way only due to the silly soffits that the latest HD person added in (because i have soffits right now and thought I was keeping them). Looking down from above, you can't see the 12" deep pantry below.

NEW IDEA: what if I make my wall pantry 15" deep??!! then couldn't I put the GE Advantium over there (and thus be able to do a hood?)? I could also make room for a coffee spot! :)

I also did some measuring- I should see if I can scan in a sketch- something like an L shape might work...where the part of the island closest to the range is skinny..and the end by the dining room/window is larger..there was someone on this website who had a lovely wood island that was only 27 inches wide then ended up having a rounded end that was I think about 48" in diameter...

I believe the cut out depth for the Advantium is 19" to allow for the junction box and air flow.

Could you do a standard depth (24") pantry and put an oven stack there?

Could you recess into that wall? I don't remember what's behind that wall... If so, you'd gain about 3" or so... Maybe put the box above it or to the side in another cabinet?

remodelfa- I could do that (standard depth) pantry, but it would make the clearance to my island only about 37 inches or so...kinda tight. But doable..my main holdup is I really didn't want a deep pantry- wanted that very convienent 12 inch deep one..hmmm....

buehl- Can't recess into that wall, family room (not large) behind it.

I am so torn. This is NOT my dream house. I figure we'll be here anywhere from 5-15 years (sorry can't narrow that down more!) :) So I have 2 choices:

ECONOMY VERSION: keep OTR micro and recirculating vent (right now my Jennair electric cooktop has downdraft that I never use). Would be an efficient use of space- plus its the GE Advantium which I have a sneaking suspicion I'll be using a LOT- so I need it in convenient spot for me. To keep costs down I can also resist the urge to go induction cooktop w/a wall oven, and just get an electric slide in.

LUXURY VERSION: if I move the micro elsewhere (say to under the island), then I'll need to purchase a hood, pay to vent outside (not sure how much that will be- if its possible to hook up to the vent that already goes outside from the downdraft part), buy induction, buy a wall oven etc...

I'm already going to do hardwoods (~3500$ for kitchen and family room), granite (~3500 depending on which granite), I've already upgraded to stainless DW and fridge (spent ~$2400)...and good chances the cabinet guy plus install will end up being around 14...we're also extending the hardwood into the bathroom, so need to replace the toilet and vanity while we're doing that (~1K).. Eeeek!

PS here are some pics to give an idea of what I have now:

PS There's a bullentin board on the pennisula (held down by toaster oven) to try to mimic where my island will go...bulletin board is 36 in across...also I put a 48 diameter round glass top (from my patio) on top of my kitchen table to visualize the 'rounded end' of my imaginary island...

I'd price it both ways and get samples - it doesn't sound like he knows the finishing end really well and that is a very crucial aspect. It isn't unusual for custom guys not to do their own door finishing - the equipment and space is a big expense. Many smaller shops are set up to do the boxes and order the doors. Whoever he orders the doors from will provide him with any colour codes he requires.

I gather he will polyurethane the 3\4 inch birch ply interiors. Are they face frame cabinets? Full or partial overlay (like you have now)? I'm in Canada so frameless is the standard and boxes are usually edge banded to match the door finish. How will he finish the face frames (spray?).

Corner drawers are huge space wasters compared to a corner EZreach cabinet--with or without a lazy susan. There are other red flags for this cabinet maker too, including the very important unanswered finishing questions. You haven't provided his new layout to critique with the exact sizes he envisions using, but I have to say that so far it sounds as though are there are things you're NOT getting with him vs. using a semi custom cabinet line like the Thomasville. And, you're not saving any money. THe finishing process is important, and a factory finish will be the most durable and generally best quality available. That is worth a bit of additional money for sure, and I hate to say it, but in this economy with cabinet makers going bankrupt right and left, dealing with an individual is a lot riskier than dealing with a larger showroom or national chain store.

Take a deep breath, post his exact suggested layout (with elevations) for critique, and insist on a sample door before you proceed any further. You only do this once or twice in a lifetime, so take the time to make sure you are doing it right. And that means fully understanding the visual and functional impact of those suggested changes.

remodelfa- I could do that (standard depth) pantry, but it would make the clearance to my island only about 37 inches or so...kinda tight. But doable..my main holdup is I really didn't want a deep pantry- wanted that very convienent 12 inch deep one..hmmm....

buehl- Can't recess into that wall, family room (not large) behind it.

I am so torn. This is NOT my dream house. I figure we'll be here anywhere from 5-15 years (sorry can't narrow that down more!) :) So I have 2 choices:

ECONOMY VERSION: keep OTR micro and recirculating vent (right now my Jennair electric cooktop has downdraft that I never use). Would be an efficient use of space- plus its the GE Advantium which I have a sneaking suspicion I'll be using a LOT- so I need it in convenient spot for me. To keep costs down I can also resist the urge to go induction cooktop w/a wall oven, and just get an electric slide in.

LUXURY VERSION: if I move the micro elsewhere (say to under the island), then I'll need to purchase a hood, pay to vent outside (not sure how much that will be- if its possible to hook up to the vent that already goes outside from the downdraft part), buy induction, buy a wall oven etc...

I'm already going to do hardwoods (~3500$ for kitchen and family room), granite (~3500 depending on which granite), I've already upgraded to stainless DW and fridge (spent ~$2400)...and good chances the cabinet guy plus install will end up being around 14...we're also extending the hardwood into the bathroom, so need to replace the toilet and vanity while we're doing that (~1K).. Eeeek!

PS here are some pics to give an idea of what I have now:

PS There's a bullentin board on the pennisula (held down by toaster oven) to try to mimic where my island will go...bulletin board is 36 in across...also I put a 48 diameter round glass top (from my patio) on top of my kitchen table to visualize the 'rounded end' of my imaginary island...