Drat. I've tried a bunch of things and the pics won't come up. Help?

Here's a link to my kitchen folder on Picasa. Drawings and photos inside. Thanks!

Btw, on the kitchen layout 1 square = 1 foot. On the house drawing, 1 square = 2 feet.

Stepping away from the keyboard...

You're so sweet, young-gardener!

I can't tell you how much I'm loving your plan and the description of what you're trying to accomplish. A few comments, though:

1)The kids snack/breakfast/beverage area is on the other side of the island from the dish storage. I agree with having substantial dish storage in the cleanup area, but be aware that this is a problem (having dishes far away from where we have or fix coffee, breakfast, and snacks) I noticed when we first started using our new kitchen, that was substantially larger than ones we've had before. Thankfully, our breakfast/snack area, although across the kitchen, has a clear path between our island and a breakfast table so that there is nothing to navigate around.

2) Looking at your cleanup area, and knowing you want sink, dw, trash, etc., etc. there, I'm not clear about where the dishes will go. I would consider having the sink off-center, so there was room to have the dishes all on one side, grouped together.

3) Can you move the fridge a little north so that it lines up with the aisle in front of the stove? This will make it easier to access from the stove and baking areas. Is there a reason you have the side of it a foot away from the wall shared by the bathroom and mechanical/storage room? Oh, I'm seeing that I probably misjudged the beverage area as the kids' area...and you probably want to leave the kids' area at 4 ft. Is that where the microwave will be?

4) Baking area is SUPER...but a long jaunt from the fridge if that makes any difference. Maybe not a big deal if you don't use refrigerated ingredients much for your projects?

5) I have 3 ft between my rangetop and island, where I prep. I would find 4 ft to be wide, requiring extra, unnecessary steps. It is nice to grab from the island and simply turn to the stove.

6) LOVE the pantry and planned space for books...Nice.

7) The island is very deep...It might be hard to clean/wipe down the center?

Mostly, with the mud room and pantry organization, and the zone separation you have planned in the kitchen...I am liking this very much.

rhome,

Thanks! You always have such helpful comments.

1. Should have mentioned that I'm planning on putting breakfast type dishes in that breakfast area. Coffee cups, travel coffee cups, cereal bowls, small plates for toast/snacks, and some silverware. Thinking about getting a fun set of flatware just for that area with something distinctive on it so that it would be easy for anyone putting away dishes to know where it goes. Downside is it's a distance from the sink/dishwasher for putting away, but I suppose that's the tradeoff for having it sort of "out of the way."

2. Dish storage. Everyday dishes will go in the uppers flanking the window, and I will have a 24" drawer stack on the side of the island. I meant to upload drawings of the island. I've done that now. I'm thinking that'll be enough for everyday dishes, since I'll also have some dishes over in the breakfast area. Right now, I have the everyday stuff in 36" of uppers and a 24" stack of drawers. I'll store the special occasion stuff in the pantry and in the dining room china cabinet. I'll think about this one some more.

3. Yes that's the kids/breakfast area between the fridge and the wall. It is four feet. That's where I'll put the microwave -- ideally a drawer one. It would be better for the fridge to open to that walkway to give more room, but I agree that I need at least 4 feet for that little station. You're right the beverage area is on the side closer to the great room.

4. Yes, that baking area is a bit far from the fridge. I'll think about this one. Thinking about refrigerated items I'd use back there... butter, sour cream, cream cheese, eggs. My tendency would be to gather all this at the outset, so I wouldn't be running back and forth. It's tough because I want the sink and the baking center to have windows, so the fridge has to be on the interior wall. And you end up with this distance. Cogitating on this one.

5. You know, I have about three feet around my island now, and it doesn't really bother me. It's a moveable island, so I'll push it out another foot for a while and see if it's inconvenient to be that far away or if I like the elbow room. If I pulled the island back six inches or a foot, do you think it would be odd to have the side cabinet runs extending farther than the island? Probably not, right?

6. I have to have that pantry! Right now, we have a converted single car garage for a laundry room/mudroom and I have tons of pantry-type storage. Not giving that up. And I have hundreds of cookbooks (my only collection), so that's why there are so many bookshelves. I'm actually concerned there might not be enough!

7. True. The depth wouldn't be a problem for me now, but might be when I'm older. I wanted it that deep to get a 24" wide bank of drawers on each side, to address the dish storage issue. I've got an 18" overhang for seating right now. Another one to consider. I could trim the width of that bank of drawers or trim the depth of the overhang (or both) and make it less deep. Would save me some money on granite too...

Thanks again for taking the time to read that ridiculously long email!

Personally, I don't like the way the oven stack is right in the middle of that counter run and I don't like the way the frig is in the middle on the other side. It just seems like you have counter space and then tall appliances placed in between. I have 2 different ideas:

1) The first idea is similar to a former poster who has a space that reminds me of yours. Unfortunately, her link to additional pics isn't working, but hopefully you can get an idea of what she did with 2 islands. The range(cooktop) is where you have the freezer and the frig and freezer would be on the right side wall. You could put the ovens over there as well and place it as oven, freezer, counter space and frig closest to the great room. You could have frig drawers and a prep sink in the island closest to the cook top. The other island would be just for seating, homework, etc.

2) My 2nd thought is to move the cooktop to the outside wall, maybe a little to the left of where you have the window(which I guess can be moved since the house isn't built yet, LOL!). Put the frig/freezer and oven stack on the wall where the freezer is. Prep sink in island by the frig wall. Refrigerator drawers in the cabinet run on the right side wall.

At the very least, I think I'd put the oven next to the freezer.

Just a couple more comments after your latest post...

1) Probably the only answer to fit the situation. A good chance to have some really fun stuff just for the kids' area, and to help make it obvious which things go where.

2) I would still...for me...want to maybe decrease the space between sink and oven a bit and keep oven-related stuff on that side of the sink, then expand the dish storage and concentrate it all to the left of the sink...a chance to make the dish storage area especially attractive with glass doors or a hutch-like appearance, which seems like it'd go with the style shown in your inspiration photos. Where will the dishwasher be? I would want it on the same side as the dish storage.

5) It might actually be nice to have the island end tucked into the kitchen a bit, so that the stool backs are within the kitchen, at least when not in use.

Mahlgold -- Oops. I don't think my drawing makes it clear where the walls are. There is an actual wall behind the cooktop that goes all the way across the kitchen. There are doors in that wall on each side of the cooktop run. (It looks like allison0704's in the finished kitchen blog.) So there's a wall beside the oven stack. So instead of a two-island kitchen it's more of a front kitchen/back kitchen. Or it's a two island kitchen with a wall through one of the islands, I guess. (Funny because my first plan had two islands--didn't realize I was still kind of doing that.) The freezer is actually closed off in the pantry, and probably won't be suitable for display. ;) Doesn't change that the fridge in the middle of that run of cabinets. I'll think about that.

rhome --right now the dishwasher is to the right of the sink, which is where the dish storage is. Trash and recycling pullouts on the other side. (Could easily eliminate one of these and move the sink over.) There's a drawing in my picasa folder at the link above that shows the fridge and sink walls. I'm with you on that hutch idea! One of the inspiration pics has one, actually. I'll tinker with that wall this evening.

OK...I'd missed the elevation drawings. The sink wall one has the oven at the wrong end, though, and the bfast and beverage areas are switched on that drawing? Or am I missing something? Hard to tell these days, LOL.

Your fridge wall is a lot like my bfast center-fridge-baking center run, which works great for us...and I think with the oven there you have a great way to see and use the oven from the cooking area while keeping it close to your separate baking center, which is something I would have loved to have...especially with the windows right there! Is there any possibility of making that baking counter 30" deep instead of the standard 24"?

You're right, rhome, I did it backwards. I'm a dork. At one point, I reversed the house to deal with the slope on the site and to shelter the bedroom from the road. So that may be why some drawings are backward.

I like the oven there for exactly that reason. The view to the south is pretty nice so those windows will be great -- for the view and for southern exposure in the winter.

Seems like the baking counter could be deeper. Actually, just got out my yardstick, and my grandmother's stone (currently my kitchen island top) is 28x32, so that counter has to be at least 28". Totally missed that.

One other thing...Have you seen the down-to-the-counter, bumped-out windows like Mamadadapaige and Erikanh have? I really wish I'd done that in my kitchen. More room behind the sink, more light, and just a nicer look, overall. (My window always has splashes on it, and I wish I had room for some pots of herbs or something.)

Thanks for reminding me about those windows. I love those, and I'd forgotten about them. Adding them to the plan.

Added 1.5 feet to the sink and fridge runs to incorporate a 4-foot dish storage armoire. Added a bump-out window ala Erikanh & mamadadapaige. Will upload drawings this evening.

Considering moving the fridge over a foot toward the laundry/mudroom area and doing a 3-foot wide floor-to-ceiling cabinet between fridge and wall. Then breakfast/snack area and beverage are would be in a 7.5-foot run of cabinets/counters. I'm not sure that these two areas really need to be physically separated by the fridge, and it might be nice to have that long counter. (of course I do have the island counter already.) I could go either way.

Thoughts?

Sounds great! What would be the function of the floor to ceiling cab between fridge and wall? Just have to decide if that's worth more to you than the counter space. But I think combining them will work well on a day to day basis. I separated mine because one area was for baking, and I didn't want snack and b'fast stuff all over it...but since both of yours are basically for serving, and the task times won't likely overlap, I think it'd be fine...and a bigger area for each use at each time. I'm definitely cheering the dish armoire and the bumped out window. Does this mean the window can be any wider?

I uploaded my drawing of the sink wall. Link below. I think it looks and works much better. Not that the window is 6-feet wide now. Super.

But I fiddled with that 3-foot cabinet beside the fridge, and it just takes away too much lower-cabinet storage. I need drawers in that breakfast area. So I'm sticking with the fridge where it is unless a genius idea surfaces.

That one's backwards, too...Or is it the plan that's flipped?

You could have drawers in the base of a full wall of cabs, too, but if they're things you want right under a counter, I guess you're better off with 'plan A.' Have you seen my wall with the fridge between the different areas? I don't think it looks bad...

Rhome, You know, I thought about this kitchen so much before I flipped the layout that I just can't stop flipping it. Good thing I'm not breaking ground anytime soon! Thanks for bearing with me.

Yeah, the problem is that I need the drawers in the breakfast area. So I have the same amount of room for drawers, but they're just not in the right place.

I think the fridge in the middle is kind of interesting looking, and would sort of hide the breakfast/snack area mess. (I'm being realistic here.) And I have that big island for uninterrupted counter.

Pretty kitchen! And you're the person who has the cool fridge & freezer! Frigidaire?

You have a bunch of different counter surfaces don't you? How did you decide what to do where?

The fridge and freezer are Electrolux Icon...The snobbier version of the Frigidaire. ;-) For me the Frigidaires were too plasticky looking inside, like they might not be durable enough. I had a fridge that had pieces that broke inside all the time and wasn't interested in doing that again!

I have 3 different counter surfaces...

Flanking the rangetop: We wanted something heat resistant, and couldn't afford stone, so ended up with stainless. This thrilled my dh anyway, as his dad and brothers have worked decades on tug boats (as did dh in younger years), in which the galley counters are all stainless, so it seemed to fit the family legacy. It was a big plus that our local sheet metal fabricator did them for us at $17/sq ft!

Also considered stone for the island perimeters, but again, couldn't justify that expense when I'd been happy all my life with laminate. We also considered doing our own concrete countertops, but since we were DIYing our whole house, we just couldn't fit that into the building schedule, which was already running months behind. But that's what led us to make the perimeter counters extra thick (2 1/4" instead of the standard 1 1/2")...To get the hefty look, and 'just in case' we ever decide to switch them out for concrete. (ha)

Most of the inspiration kitchens I loved had butcherblock countertop in them somewhere, and I liked the warmth and hominess it seemed to add...so on the island seemed a good place after the stone I'd wanted for doing baking projects was ruled out. Throughout our house (door casings, baseboard, window trim, etc.) we used Douglas fir that had been milled from trees we cut in our yard before building...so we decided to use that on the island, too. It was essentially free at that point, and even though really inappropriate for a work surface because of being soft, we knew it would match and would be easy and fairly painless to change later if we needed to.

Long story...But I think that explains the counter choices?