Feedback on cabinet layout please

11 years ago

Hello GW,

I would love your feedback on the proposed kitchen layout. At this point I cannot make changes to structure or locations of major appliances. I am looking to make best use of space with the cabinet layout. We need to order cabinets very soon and this is the best I've been able to come up with but am running into some issues.

Background on us:

My family - me, DH and 2 boys (almost 4 yr old and 1 yr old)

I usually cook most weekdays and DH cooks on weekends. Occasional baking.

Infrequent entertaining - and when we do it's informal. But there may be lots of play dates in future so definitely need something kid friendly.

Some items that may not be obvious from photos:

Finished sizes as follows:

The back wall of kitchen in 192" (16 ft)

The wall next to fridge is 64" (5 ft 4 in)

The wall next to pantry is 48" (4 ft)

The kitchen side of peninsula is 108" (9 ft)

The family room side of peninsula is 84" (7 ft). This will be our only eating area.

Backside of peninsula will be three 27" cabs. 12" overhang for seating.

I am open to any and all feedback on layout (without moving plumbing or gas line or walls) but would especially love feedback on the following issues:

Peninsula layout (left to right) on attached plan is :

18" base

30" stove

12" drawer stack

30" 2 drawer

18" prep sink base

I want to use the 2 drawer base for my everyday pots n pans so I made the drawer stack 12". But KD is saying 12" drawer stack is pretty useless. If you have 12" drawer stack, what do you store there? My plan was to store knives, cooking utensils, pot holders, some kitchen gadgets, towels, possibly junk drawer. Is this unrealistic? If so, what size do you recommend I make this.

KD and GC suggested 18" but that only leaves 24" for 2 drawer - Not sure if that will be enough. In current kitchen, my pots n pans are stacked and stuffed into a 18" cabinet. But I'd like it a little more organized and hope to not stack as many pots/pans together.

Wall layout on attached plan is:

Wall (left to right):

3 3/4 filler

36" FD fridge

27" 2 drawer base

36" sink base

24" 3 drawer base

36" pantry

KD tried to align uppers to lowers. Cabinets will be going to the ceiling (108") So upper cabs will be 54".

Instead of wasting 3 3/4 for filler - I was considering putting a 6" pull-out there. KD says it won't be accessible - I understand it won't be accessible from wall side but why not from fridge side? I am awaiting her response to it but thought I'd ask here too.

Also, what is usable space on 6" filler - what do you store there?

Is it worth getting this or should I just get a filler?

If I make that a 6" filler - there is only a 24" space btwn fridge and sink. My thought was to have MW on upper cabinet and Toaster Oven on the counter. KD says this will put MW shelf too close to sink and we likely could bump our head on it while turning away from sink. Your thoughts?

One idea I had is to have a appliance garage like space in that area to house MW in upper cab and Toaster Oven on counter. I like the idea of having it behind doors but yet easily accessible. Both MW and toaster oven, we use everyday so want it easily accessible. The toaster oven, BTW, is almost as big as the MW oven. (Don't ask why - DH wanted it that way).

But concern with this setup is that it will box in the sink with counter space only one side.

The drawers under the MW cabinet will be kid food zone - their plastic dishes/utensils and snacks they can help themselves too.

I don't want to do under counter MW because I feel it's harder to access. No MW drawer due to cost. Besides, probably not good location with young kids - don't want them playing with it - too tempting when it's right at their level.

The other option is to move the MW and toaster oven in between sink and pantry (48" counter space). I don't like this so much because 1) I wanted them near the fridge since chances are food from fridge is going into them. 2) I want to keep dishes in the Upper cab there since it's right above DW and if I put MW there - it cuts into that space and also makes it harder to reach.

I don't want to keep both on counter because I need space for dish rack there.

I'd consider putting dishes/glasses in the drawer next to DW but that's only 24" - I don't know if that will enough for dishes. Also, DH doesn't like the idea of dishes/glasses in drawer.

Thanks for reading my long post. :-) Looking forward to reading the responses!

Here are the photos:

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Comments (3)

herbflavor
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You have a 16 foot outside back wall that needs to house sink and range.Above range you can do microwave that vents out or a range hood. I would put the range down toward the left as it's out of much of the traffic-the sink over to the right wherever you deem it.The pantry closet is removed. the entire 16 feet is cooking/sink/counters. The fridge goes over to the right side of peninsula/island..the side of it butted up practically against that bath wall.yes-probably a french door fridge/yes-built in panels or build a cubby with studs for this. There is still plenty of usable peninsula space extending out from fridge side. Skip the small sink. Storage drawers under peninsula and some added storage in laundry [which is in a great location to function as some pantry storage for you] will make up for the pantry removal on the long wall. The 16 foot wall has to be dedicated to sink/range functions and it will work nicely with high ceilings and your taller cabs-but you are creating a large budget for cabinets with 54 inches of height. I would consider only a bit of it going that tall...and maybe even just 42 in with molding,and a chunk of the day to day cabs at 36in high. 30 in tall cabs are standard and are plenty for most people in most kitchens.Granted-with fridge and pantry off that wall the aesthetics change-but in a good way because that is your sightline from dining area. don't rule out some open shelves as well.
J P
Original Author
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Herbflavor - I can't make changes to locations of major appliances now. All the plumbing and gas are in place already. Besides DH wants range on island so we can look out into family room as we cook.

Also, are you suggesting putting the fridge basically where the stove is now? Then we would be looking at back of fridge from family room. We just tore down the wall between the family room and kitchen so we can have an open plan - so don't want to cover the opening with fridge cabinet.
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Hi Azlee, To show that there's a wall somewhere, you can draw a long very skinny rectangle instead of just a straight line. That is, you draw two parallel straight lines instead of just one, and then connect them at the ends. **Sink infront of window- I am usually not the one to be doing the cooking, I do mostly the cleaning so I guess I like the sink there so I can look outside when my kids play in the yard.** This is almost always why people put sinks in front of windows--"I want to look out at the yard while I'm at the sink." But in this modern age, with dishwashers, most people do not spend much time at the sink. And particularly if you are cleaning, you would probably only come to the sink to get more water, or maybe to rinse a mop, right? So really, you are only standing in front of the sink for maybe thirty seconds. (I am guessing here--you can check, the next time you clean, to see how much time you are actually standing at the sink.) Also, when do you usually clean? Is that time the same time that the children play in the yard? I ask these questions because very often this idea that you will look at nature or watch the kids while standing at the sink is just a fantasy. In reality, you will look out the window whenever you want; the fact that the sink is not there does not prevent you from lingering by the counter watching your children. If you want some activity that will take you to the window, you could participate in prep work for meals or you could place something else there that you use--a coffee machine, for example; that sort of thing, or even the trash pullout. The other advantage of putting the cooktop and thus the prep space along this wall is that it is much closer to the seating area and family room. That means it is much easier for the nanny, or whoever is cooking/prepping, to see/hear what the children are doing (I assume it is more likely for the children to be in the seating area or family room than for them to be in the dining room while someone is cooking? And anyway, you can't see the dining room from the range in your proposed layout, so even if the children were there the cook couldn't see them). It also makes it possible, or at least easier, for the cook to participate in conversations. People spend far longer at the prep counter and the cooktop than they do at the sink. Prepping and cooking one meal can easily take an hour or more. The person cooking might like being closer to everyone during that time. For your storage issues, I wonder if perhaps the powder room could be just a little bit narrower, so that on the powder room wall facing the kitchen/eating area you could have a shallow pantry--perhaps 12" deep, or even just 8" deep, of shelf space. I think that anything you can do to move some storage out of that pantry/fridge/microwave wall, so that there is room for a counter on that wall, would be a good idea. For the island seating--even if you do keep it, do you need three seats? Depending how you arrange it, you could have two seats there and a good deal more storage. Another thought is that the bench your drawing shows at the breakfast table could be built in, with storage in it. Many people put long drawers into the base of breakfast-nook benches, so that it is possible to pull the drawer out from the side of the bench without disturbing people who are sitting on the bench. (See photo link below). And you actually do not really need to build the bench in (i.e. attach it to the wall) to put a drawer in it, although that is what most people do. This might be a good place to store things that do not relate directly to cooking. For example, paper towels and the like. Anything that you do not actually NEED in the kitchen can be stored here, or in the possible shallow pantry beside the powder room. That will free up space to store food items in the kitchen and also to have a counter between microwave and fridge. Here is a link that might be useful:
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remodelfa- I could do that (standard depth) pantry, but it would make the clearance to my island only about 37 inches or so...kinda tight. But doable..my main holdup is I really didn't want a deep pantry- wanted that very convienent 12 inch deep one..hmmm.... buehl- Can't recess into that wall, family room (not large) behind it. I am so torn. This is NOT my dream house. I figure we'll be here anywhere from 5-15 years (sorry can't narrow that down more!) :) So I have 2 choices: ECONOMY VERSION: keep OTR micro and recirculating vent (right now my Jennair electric cooktop has downdraft that I never use). Would be an efficient use of space- plus its the GE Advantium which I have a sneaking suspicion I'll be using a LOT- so I need it in convenient spot for me. To keep costs down I can also resist the urge to go induction cooktop w/a wall oven, and just get an electric slide in. LUXURY VERSION: if I move the micro elsewhere (say to under the island), then I'll need to purchase a hood, pay to vent outside (not sure how much that will be- if its possible to hook up to the vent that already goes outside from the downdraft part), buy induction, buy a wall oven etc... I'm already going to do hardwoods (~3500$ for kitchen and family room), granite (~3500 depending on which granite), I've already upgraded to stainless DW and fridge (spent ~$2400)...and good chances the cabinet guy plus install will end up being around 14...we're also extending the hardwood into the bathroom, so need to replace the toilet and vanity while we're doing that (~1K).. Eeeek! PS here are some pics to give an idea of what I have now: PS There's a bullentin board on the pennisula (held down by toaster oven) to try to mimic where my island will go...bulletin board is 36 in across...also I put a 48 diameter round glass top (from my patio) on top of my kitchen table to visualize the 'rounded end' of my imaginary island...
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1. What are the rooms surrounding the kitchen? -upper right of drawing is the hallway to bathroom and garage. A door is missing that is to the right of the wall pantry- entrance to the family room. At left of drawing is the entrance to the dining room, and at the bottom right is the door to the basement. Where is the main entrance your family uses to enter your home? -hallway from garage. That's why I didn't want it to be a very narrow entrance- had to keep plenty of space between fridge and wall pantry. Last cab on right of wall pantry is a reduced depth base cab that we'll top with a piece of granite. Can any walls, windows, or doorways be changed? - I'd say no, we're already eliminating a small false wall that is next to the basement door (it currently hides the side of our fridge now), and knocking into our bathroom closet so we can recess our full size fridge and make it look counterddepth. In particular, can the wall at the end of the sink run come down altogether or be moved to make the sink run longer? -Nope. My sink area is a 'bump-out', so that's where the bump-out ends. That wall is taken up by a large window. I can't tell if the opening to the right of the sink run is 66" or 88"... -its more than 88, but its mostly window. Storage: * Dishes. Probably the best place for them would be in the drawer on the outside end of the island. That way, you can have both the drawers & DW open at the same time. -My intent exactly, love it!! Think 1 x 30 W drawer is plenty? I was thinking silverware in top (obviously use a silverware organizer, and still have plenty of room left over), then middle drawer for dishes. Bottom drawer for ? * Glasses. I would recommend storing them in the cabinet above the DW. - perfect! * Pots & Pans. I would actually recommend storing them in the lazy susan. - ok, but critical question then- which lazy susan? Current plan calls for Thomasville 'Deep Bin' susan- no posts, and deep sides will prevent things from falling down behind susan. My concern is that the opening will be too small to easily bring large items (frying pan etc) in and out...It will be a great spot for my colander for sure though. And maybe mixing bowls, measuring cups, etc? * Prep tools, etc. These would probably work best in the drawers on the inside end of your island. -Yes! I was thinking top drawer will be all my spatulas/knives/cooking utensils (becktheeng, that will hopefully eliminate need for drawer next to range). Next drawer could be tupperware? Bottom drawer, frequently used pots n/pans.. Problems I see: * The sink & range are so close together that more than one person will not be able to be working at them at one time. -yup, but I'm not sure I have much choice. Usually its just me anyways, hubby just eats... :) * Your range really...
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Thanks, everyone, for your very helpful thoughts. I really appreciate the time that you took in making suggestions and giving me thoughts. This is a new construction home but with so many different constraints, we don't have much leeway. One thing is that it is a tiny lot (30 X 70) on a sloping lot, so getting everything packed in can be complicated. To that end, we have to have the steps going up from room to room. I can't get rid of them, and I think that there is a reason they are at a diagonal, but I will check on that. One self-imposed constraint is that it is REALLY important to my husband to have minimal interior walls in the main living space. Our ceilings won't be that high (a little more than 10' at the highest), but it will have what we call a "modern beach house" look, which includes the steel beams. I honestly have no ability to add more wall space; it would completely ruin the house for my husband. I realized that I posted a slightly older version of the kitchen earlier. The differences aren't that significant, but I hope the picture below gives you more information about the current set-up. Basically, the kitchen will be between the living room to the south, and the dining room to the east. The island labeled "countertop" at the right of the picture is two sided, with a bookcase toward the living room and cabinetry toward the kitchen. The dining room will have a halfwall that is shared by kitchen which should create a ledge blocking all the kitchen dishes. It is also where I plan for the dishes to be set after dinner in the dining room, hopefully to do away with some of the hazards of the stairs. One big concern I have is the couple comments about it being a one-person kitchen. That is exactly what I DON"T want. My kids already help me now, and I know that I will continue to want them to help out. Any suggestions for how to change that, I would really appreciate. Knowing that the refrigerator has to be on that wall, is there any other way that you can think to make it less of a problem for the prepping? You can have the refrigerator and freezer open the same direction, which I had planned on doing. I think that I planned to do the prep either on the island across from the refrigerator or on the counter next to the refrigerator. I expected that most people getting snacks would come from the living room, so I thought that the refrigerator would probably be out of the way from there. Thanks, again, for your help. I will try to find more specific dimensions so I can give you more information soon.
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herbflavor
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
no-the back of fridge wouldn't show: panels around a cubby/or the back of the cubby can have shallow display cabinetry facing dining area- a 33-36 in wide fridge would have cut off off 25-30% of the 16 ft run...not a biggie for the gain of range on that back wall with adequate venting.

Feedback on cabinet layout please

Comments (3)

herbflavor

J P
Original Author

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Feedback on cabinet layout please

Comments (3)

herbflavor

J POriginal Author

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herbflavor

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J P
Original Author