The only thing the Thermador didn't have was a convection fan. It was self clean, broil, timed bake, bake, micro, broil/micro, bake/micro with a low, medium or high setting for the microwave. I personally rarely used the microwave only setting since I had a stand alone microwave. From what I understand that is why it went out of favor with consumers - it was a poor micro-only oven. Now as to the design flaws of the built-in Jenn-Air convection/microwave, I'm going to be adding to this so I don't make any mistakes and misrepresent it. I rarely use the Jenn-Air convection/microwave any more. My biggest complaint is that it turns itself off. I'll preheat it, hear the bell that it reached temperature and when I'm finished prepping find the oven has turned off. It will only preheat for a certain amount of time and after that time has been reached, it will exhaust the heat from the oven. A second complaint is the temperature fluctuation - more frequently lower than higher. The temperature is displayed on the digital readout. Heaven forbid that you open the door to check on your food, it takes forever to re-reach the set temperature. The oven was half programmed correctly. The oven does permit one to set the convection/roast/microwave to any combination one would desire. It's the convection/bake/microwave that can't be set other than the reprogrammed settings. So the capability is there - just incomplete. There is one thing that we do use the oven for regularly and that is reheating pizza, pancakes and waffles on the crisper pan. If you are into convenience foods then this oven is for you. There are just two of us and we both cook so normally we would use the smaller convection/microwave oven more - we don't because of our frustration with the product. As I had said we did use the GE convection/microwave more than our full-sized oven. I will be adding to this post. There are more complaints. I just want to document them correctly.

lovebirds, it looks as if our posts crossed in cyberspace earlier. My first thought is that the Panasonic tech support is somewhere not in North America and the English as a second language issue is getting in the way of clear information. If you have someone you could consult locally about the installation with trim kit I think you will find that the you don't need 6" of clear space above your Panasonic oven. After all, the trim kit is meant to be used for a built in treatment and the upper portion of the trim isn't wide enough to cover a 6" gap. Maybe I'm misinterpreting their e-mail and I'm way off base here. Our cabinet was built for the Sharp convection microwave and so the space is a bit smaller than needed for the Panasonic. But, it is within about 1/8" of the Panasonic specs and we will have only a few inches of space between the top of the oven and the wood shelf above it. Hope that makes sense. So, I think they are saying that unless you use the trim kit your will need granite to protect your other oven and 6" of clear space above the Panasonic. That, in fact, sounds remarkably like the situation you would have if your Panasonic were sitting out on your kitchen counter above a built in wall oven. Does it sound possible to you that this is what they are trying to say? Thanks for the info on the pyrex pan. The handles explains what happened. My pyrex pan doesn't have handles. Good luck with solving this. I think the Panasonic looks beautiful and DH is completely convinced that it is a superior cooking appliances so for once in this kitchen project we completely agree on what we should get. LOL.

I installed Miele Chef Speedoven undercounter. It is not difficult to use. I am sure it would have been better at above counter level but "form" and "layout need" won over the function of this particular appliance. Miele Chef is not as easy to use as a typical $100 MW because it does not have 1 button function for reheat. It does not have a typical MW turntable. It seems to work fine without it. If you want a speed oven/second oven/convectioin oven even though the functionality of the MW is slightly more cumbersome, then Miele maybe an option for you. I think a typical MW with convection function (kitchenaide, jenair etc) has an easier MW control panel, ie single button reheat. I am not sure. I felt that Miele is a superb oven first that has MW capability. Kitchenaid is an MW first that has convection capability. I opted to go for the oven, ie Miele. I really wanted undercounter installation and Miele was the best I found that would work as second oven AND as a MW well. I bake things in the Miele and really use it as my second oven, not just as MW. I am very happy with how well it functions. It fits 2 1/2 sheet jelly roll pans perfectly and bakes cookies very evenly. If you can find a pan that fits in the side grooves of the oven (which is what I do), then you don't need to rest the trays on the oven rack.... There is no easy way you could put two trays of cookies in the Kitchenaide. They have those funny round racks for putting cooking trays on.

We're getting the Wolf Combi Steam + Wall Oven. Haven't used them yet (a broken granite slab is pushing the install dates back), but our plan is that we'll probably use the steam oven most of the time, and the big oven just for holidays, or when we need a second oven or the broiler. Again, not speaking from experience just yet, but my understanding is that we'll probably use the steam oven for a lot of things that we currently do in the microwave (like reheating leftovers). My wife has never been a big microwave fan anyway, so we'll probably just continue with our small countertop model. I would personally rather leave out the drawer microwave and invest that money in a full-size traditional oven. I don't think Wolf ever said that their steam oven has broiler like capabilities. They do say that they can somehow brown the outside of meat with a combination of heat and steam. As long as you'll have at least one oven with a broiler though, I don't see that the lack of a broiler on the Wolf should sway your purchase decision. Finally, keep in mind that the Wolf 30" steam oven is really a 24" oven with a bigger faceplate that matches their traditional ovens. It only goes up to 450 degrees as well, so I'm not sure that your pizza stone will do you much good.