I had a client tell me that she was disappointed in the architect that designed her home because "he gave her everything she asked for". It wasn't until she lived in the home that she realized she asked for the wrong things.

@M Miller, As far as the Telluride kitchen, I think it mostly comes down to personal preference. Does a person tend towards agoraphobia or claustrophobia?

That kitchen feels cold to me simply because of the view ... I am done living anywhere that has snow! It would look fine with palm trees outside! I prefer to live in a home with 10 - 13 ft ceilings, specially when living in a warm climate. Some on the forum think that we should all live with 8 ft ceilings!

Well, I think the goal of any designer is to give the client something better than was asked for. I am not an architect, I am not even working currently as a designer, except on my own stuff. But I have had clients yell and me and say I "reject every one" of their ideas, and my answer is, "But if all you want is somebody to agree with all your ideas, you don't need me at all, just do it yourself". And it wasn't that the clients ideas were all terrible, they were just not things that would really work together in the same project. I get it. I have tons of ideas. I like a lot of different things, but I only have one house, so most of the ideas get rejected out of hand because they don't fit the program.

I can't say very much specifically about projects like these because they are way outside my experience. I have never had a project on acreage with incredible views that need to be viewed. But I have a hard time sorting out that a view is going to be that much better with a double height ceiling than it is with something a bit higher than normal unless the view is all above me? There was someone in one of the forums asking about what sort of pendants to hang from a 30 foot ceiling... that seemed so unlikely that I thought it was someone trolling, but who knows.

Not to be too specific…but if you lower your ceiling to the heights you settled on…i see no reason to have any dropped ceilings..?…also breaking up the windows has a monetary advantage…check your codes about spacing requirements to allow the use of much less expensive windows…a huge savings in my case…tho ‘ i confess …the idea began with my desire to use some beautiful etched windows from a historical hotel demolition in Denver,Co…i carried them in a little trailer behind my car…all the way from Aspen,co….. after living there for 25 years..before retiring..

FWIW, your house design reminds me a little of this house in CA. I used to know the owners. It's large but cozy at the same time with views of our local Mount Diablo. It's 15 Hillside Rd, Danville, CA and you can find it on Realtor.com. They have a lot of dropped ceilings along with some very grand rooms. Just thought it might give another perspective.

@chispa - I am imagining the Telluride homeowners use the home for skiing season and may live elsewhere the rest of the year - maybe even Florida or California.

@User - I figure the Telluride kitchen cost minimum $250k - the cost of the windows engineering alone I can’t even imagine, plus the wall of logs, the hood, custom cabinetry and floors, etc. You are seeing things wrong with it - but if I could live there I would not complain for a second.

The ski resorts enjoy as many visitors in the summer as in the winter…the home owners tend to prefer summer in general…and some choose to rent their homes in winter when there is so much potential to make lots of money….. since owning a home there ….is mostly restricted to the very wealthy…they can afford to leave for the whole off seasons seeking exotic spots like Hawaii,Morocco,..Cabo san Lucas…leaving their homes empty….

I prefer to live in a home with 10 - 13 ft ceilings, specially when living in a warm climate. Some on the forum think that we should all live with 8 ft ceilings!

Yes location absolutely has something to do with the height of ceilings. I'm even fine with 9' ceilings so I'd say 9-13'.

Updated with 14’ ceiling and stacked window on top of slider vs transom. Also extended the cantilevers for max shade on both sides

It may just be me, but that looks weird.

Its not just you. Weird and really bad, with limited constrction or engineering knowledge. This DIY software no talent jockey doesn’t include any actual knowledge or skill behind the electrons.

It’s all attempts at lipstick on a pig of a horrible cartoon of a base design.

Hire better design talent. ASAP.

I don't understand the thick looking roofs. Not just on this design, but on other contemporary designs in the forum recently. Is there some necessity behind it?

In my roof and overhang execution - the thickness was required by the insulated metal panels and then covered in metal flashing to clean up where the panels for the roof meet the panels for the walls. For my overhang structures, I needed to capture rainwater and didn't want exposed gutters, so..... I sloped the panels side to side vs from the house forward and then hid the slope behind a taller structure and metal flashing / sheathing. I suspect this thick roof is just part of the SW being used.

Using this SW is doing the OP a disservice. Dragging and dropping a roof, or a window in a direct set method belies the amount of work that it takes to execute this in the real world. There is a TON of detail (architectural detail) that would be needed to make this happen in a way that is clean and neat.

I think that the windows look better in the new renderings, but again the window budget just doubled, and the structural steel increased as well - but that's all hidden.

Take a look at this modern home with nicely executed details - there is a TON of work to make something like this happen and all the features the OP is designing in won't fit within that current budget.

https://lettuce-silver-gs4k.squarespace.com/2022-public-voting/hancock-residence

It may just be me, but that looks weird.

No it's not just you.

Too bad too. Janni keeps posting and I've been to her build and it's going to be spectacular when finished. She realized her skill set and then hired accordingly.

As a side note, this is my favorite:

I would also point out there will be nothing to see through those top windows where there is a roof overhang…as to the plan ..the in/out projection of the rooms will just add to the cost….diminish the flow ….and reduce the interior spaces …plus…all the little indented and projected areas…looks more like a row of tiny condos than an expansive modern home… the different siding and each section having different windows adds to the lack of continuity/flow…in all fairness …impressions taken from just drawings are not as informed as a floor plan could provide

It is just as nice …even better …to install outdoor deck / patio coverings that can retract in some way…as in the winter season it is preferable to allow the sun to enter the home

In my pics I posted….it is hard to see but our pergola built for shade is installed between the upper and lower windows..barely visible but providing shade to sit outdoors on sunny days but not blocking any light into the house…our house faces south and slightly east..so we don’t have any intense heat challenges in theafternoon

Don’t know how you feel about air conditioning..( i hate it and hate what it does to our electric bill)…so there are two other helpful and comfortable options to avoid that……in an extremely dry climate a water cooler does heavenly thing to your interior comfort… blows in cool damp air….(even helps dry skin) …..or installing ceiling exhaust fans will draw out the heat that gravitates to the ceiling…leaving the use of the ac to only seriously hot days

Here’s with the view on the lot

What is the height of the room at the top of the first window? What is the "eyelevel" of the renderings? I don't think you need these super tall ceilings to capture that view.

I am not against high ceilings by default, but if you don't need this height, why spend the money on volume rather than quality.

I don't know that this diminishes the view at all. And I would want to block the view of that really homely house.

The houses visible can be blocked with berms and landscaping.

Ceiling height is 14’…we are sticking with that height. We have 12’ in our current home and want 14’ in this one. Bedrooms are 10’ and master and gym are 12’.

I actually don't care one way or another if you want 50 foot ceilings, it doesn't have anything to do with me.

I just don't think you have the budget to get 14 foot ceilings, and when you start getting actual bids and find out you designed a house you can't build at your budget you are going to be disappointed.

I was just illustrating on your own renderings that your insistence that you Need 16 or 14 foot ceilings just for framing that view isn't the case. You could capture the same view with a less expensive to execute ceiling heights. You aren't cutting anything off. So your need for 14 foot ceilings is about something else. Which is fine. And if you actually can increase your budget enough to build it properly that's great.

^^^ I hear ya, brother....

The beginning drawings portray a slanted roof?…

Spoke with my GC and he’s taken a closer look at these cantilevers and design. Brought up the points made on this forum and he agrees that it will costs significantly more without two posts on the back patio side.

Additionally, the stacked windows on top of slider will costs more but says that is something that can be changed with current window bids versus on the plan.

As for the roof…the parapet edges with metal flashing (?) can also be changed depending on the look we’re desiring.

I’m gonna have the posts put in structurally to save quite a bit of costs. GC says having two posts will save $90-100k.

But switching to an architect now won’t help since I’m at engineer review phase and have a rate lock that will nearly double if I don’t get these plans to the bank by end of month.

So thanks for the inputs and I’ll keep you guys posted…pun intended!

Who said $1M? According to my GC, there will be very little steel necessary with these post added.

I don’t know what you mean “no one is getting through to you” what does that even mean?

If you wanna debate modern versus not modern…go ahead. Call it what you want…all that matters is if I like the home and design.

I'm guessing this is going to cost you more because you don't have an architect than the rate hike would cost you.

Oh and a secret about building? Any changes made after the plans are filed will cost you a lot more to make the change.

Your assumptions are incorrect. And my GC charges a flat fee. No change fees whatsoever. Only actual costs of material and labor. No percentage on costs. He’s not the cheapest either. And actively building several homes in the area that are all $1-2M

Why do any changes made after the plans are filed (or even approved) cost a lot more? Where is the expense? We’ve made several changes along the way and none so far have increased our costs. Some have actually resulted in savings.
Speaking of changes and architects and extra costs…when we went to order windows, we discovered several discrepancies in the window schedule provided by our (yes, he’s licensed) architect. One window was missing completely, several others were not the size shown on the floor plan. Turned out a few window dimensions on the floor plan and elevations didn’t match. I reached out to our architect to reconcile the discrepancies. Instead of just answering my question, he revised the floor plan, elevations, and window schedule. Then sent me an invoice for the time he spent correcting his own mistakes. Come time to order interior doors and found the same thing, doors missing, door sizes not matching up. I didn’t contact the architect again, just worked with the contractor to sort it out and then created a new door schedule myself.
Jeremy, I hope engineering goes smoothly and you’re able to meet the rate lock deadline.

I don't think the issue is change fees. I think the issue is how much it's going to cost to actually build a house which, from my purely layman's approach, seems likely to have some pretty expensive structural support requirements, going well beyond "two posts."  Have you run this past a structural engineer to find out for sure?

My project manager told me a story about a well known GC here in Florida, bought a yacht and named it “CHANGE ORDER”

There are really 2 issues here. Many GC's use "Change Orders" as a large profit item but that practice is not universal. Then there is the cost of tearing things out which obviously has a large waste cost.

I have built several times for flat fee with no change costs on the GC side. Doesn't mean that I didn't pay if I changed my mind and we had to rip something out or return something.

Now, I have done several varieties of construction to perm loans with different banks. Some conventional, some jumbo.

In my experience, you are not getting a fixed rate until you have a CO and the loan can be sold. You might be given expectations of a rate and short term locks etc. But I have not seen a bank that would be locking themselves into a long term mortgage with no out clause based on getting to permitting or some milestone.

Now - I could be wrong and 3.75% was a pretty bad rate 6 months ago so there could have been some premium there. But I would check carefully if your expectation is getting to 30 years at that rate. If you expectation is 18 months for construction at that rate - then sure. But then you really aren't talking that much money in the grand scheme of things. Of course 7.5% (double) sounds very high even today - for either short term or long term.

I am not building currently. But I would not be custom building if the expectation was using a significant mortgage. The potential interest rate at the end is scary. When added to the increased surprise costs along the way. And then missed deadlines for a bank and any rate lock is out the window. If the expectation was cash was an option - then sure. But otherwise, the chance for financial disaster is fairly high including a house price crash (and subsequent failure to appraise).

Your assumptions are incorrect. And my GC charges a flat fee. No change fees whatsoever. Only actual costs of material and labor.

Your lack of understanding of building is showing.

I too built a house with a flat fee. HOWEVER, anytime I changed anything that was already on the plans, that resulted in a change order fee. My original plans had 3 columns holding up the front porch. Sure enough when we changed it to two columns and re-engineered it after the plans had been approved, it resulted in a change order fee which also included the builder's additional profit.

When I decided to change two doors to 36" wide because I missed them being 32" on the plans, that too resulted in a change order fee.

No builder is going to make changes and just eat the costs. Doesn't work that way.

But hey, you seem to know better than the architects here and those of us who have built. Best of luck to you.

Even if changes were completely free, often the most significant cost of changes and/or delayed decisions is the cost of delay. The state of the supply chain, covid impacts on factory production, overseas shipping, etc. expose this, expanding 2 week delays to multiple months.

We’re building for the first time, so I’m not familiar with how everything usually works. Just have our experience to go on.

We pay our GC a flat rate each month and he doesn’t use change orders. Like cpartist, we’ve removed (non-structural) posts and changed door sizes (that’s a whole ‘nother architect story). We’ve also changed ceiling heights in some areas, framed in a weird recess above the the entry porch, added a wall to the kitchen, etc. However, unlike cpartist’s experience, none of this resulted in additional fees or charges from our GC. Of course, any additional material, engineering, or sub costs are on us.

Our construction to perm loan is 3.75% fixed rate for 30 years. No underwriting at conversion. David’s commitment made me a little nervous, so I just double-checked :)

Beginner’s luck on both fronts I guess. What I’m learning is that everyone’s construction experience is different. It might vary by region, architect, GC, bank, etc. So we probably shouldn’t assume that what we experienced is the one and only way and no one else knows what they’re talking about.

Sofia…you are correct. That’s exactly how our GC works. Of course we pay for the materials and labors if there’s additional costs for changes but no change fees. And our construction loan is a one-time close with 24 month build time if needed. There’s no additional underwriting or closing after the upfront close before construction begins and it automatically converts to a 30 year with the same rate we currently have locked.

It truly is amazing how many negative comments are made from some on here when I try to keep it positive. Those same people will continue to troll and be keyboard warriors.

But I always, take the positive and negative comments and sort out what’s really important. I’ve certainly gain some knowledge from peoples opinions on here.

Excellent point, Jeffrey. Time is money. We’ve learned to work a few months out and always, always ask for lead times. There’s only so much we can do, but so far, so good. Windows are scheduled for delivery in two weeks, so we’ll see…

Jeremy, I’ll offer that our GC and I agree that its looking like we’ll come in at $300 per square foot when all is said and done. We’re in the Seattle area and have some unique geotechnical and structural engineering requirements due primarily to building with a combined 45’ buffer/setback for a ravine with a stream at the bottom.

Sofia…that sounds about right. It’s definitely cheaper here (PHX) even with all the supply chain & logistic issues. Most of the people we’ve met that are new to Arizona have moved from Cali and Washington.

Our GC just finished a modern farmhouse that’s over 5,000 sq ft, 6 car garage and RV garage for around $1.5M. The appraisal came back at $2.8M. So he definitely knows what he’s doing. He’s not a large builder with overhead costs and a staff. So his flat fee/builders profit combined with speaking directly with several neighbors who used him and some who are currently using him, gives us confidence in his ability to execute.

That's great that you are locked into a 30 year already. Are there time limits on CO? Is there no final appraisal and contingencies based on that? Has the 30 year clock already started?

The only banks around me that do construction to perm loans are small and they always want to be able to sell it.

I would assume (being the pessimist) that there are time to complete deadlines and appraisal contingencies that might be tough in the current environment.

Banks don't generally like risk and usually write contracts based on that. Then they can totally leave you hanging. So many stories on this forum over the years about difficulties on the back end.

Yes, time limit to CO is 12 months, although our loan officer told us they often extend for a month or two (but not to count on anything more than that). My understanding is that the 30-year clock has started since the loan is for 360 months and they refer to this as the interest-only period. No final appraisal or contingencies that I’m aware of. Even if there were a final appraisal, I’m confident we’d be fine based on the crazy escalation in housing prices here.

On our cost plus contract there were no additional charges for change orders, just actual cost plus the contactors percentage.

Cost plus is different than a fixed fee contract. On our cost plus when we renovated our condo, we didn't have change order fees either.

I've built new homes twice in my life. The first was in 1994 and was a custom build. We tweaked design through the build and we of course paid for extra cost but there was no change order fee per se. Our second build was in 2020 and I'll call it semi-custom. Again, we made some changes during the build, and none of these cost us a cent. While interviewing us, the builder estimated allowances based on our requirements. We came in at $200 under the contract price so he did a very good job. And this was during the pandemic. Perhaps the change order fee is a regional custom.

Change order fees are common in my area and I think most areas, but that doesn't mean they are universal.

There are Change Order Fees, and then there are the hidden cost of materials and labor for changes. Contractors can bury higher costs anyway they want to, if not honestly called out. The transparent fees are usually a lot lower!