New Shipping Rates at Central Milling. Whatever. It's Bread.

4 years ago

last modified: 4 years ago

The most important thing, if you didn't get their e-mail, is that Central Milling has a new shipping deal that makes the rates much more accessible. They have boxes that fit 3 five pound bags, and 4 five pound bags, but there are better than before shipping prices for bigger bags as well.

I've just cut out some wordy paragraphs. Short version: I was experimenting with high hydration while using up flour before it went rancid, and starter discard which was cluttering the fridge (hadn't been making waffles). I can't make the NYT bread work as written, nor other versions from the Cooking forum and other sources, work right. I even have the Staub pot that Sleevendog shared which was on sale just for the purpose (as well as other shapes and sizes of enamelled cast iron). Awhile back, I did start using my pumpkin Le Creuset for making basic commercial yeast bread (and its flavored offshoots). It's less messy than a tray and serves as a rising vessel as well, then provides a nice, even heat in the oven. All heating the pot does for me is overcook the bottom, so I don't. I learned all this and more through the experiments that made good, if flawed, bread.

So, now, with the starter overage and must go flours gone, and the new pricing, I've gotten (all organic) 5 lbs. high gluten flour, plus some pastry flour, French style flour, and some durum. I also had a new bag Tony G. pizza flour (not organic) from when it was on sale. And I learned from putting the Tony G. and the high gluten in cannisters that my New Zealand made flour bins hold just shy of 5 pounds! Methinks metric has done me wrong. The other three are in an air tight bin in their wrappers, still, waiting for me to need to take a little off the top.

So, when I fed the white starter, I used most of the last of the Artisan Baker's Craft in the canister, and I put the rest in the preferment with both whole wheat and white discards, filling out the weight with the Tony G. so I could fit the lid on its canister. The preferment for my sourdough is 100% hydration (usually the ww is 80% and the white is 70%). That went overnight. Then I used the high gluten flour for the main dough, 50% hydration. But it obviously needed more water so I just sloshed some in without measure. And I made the dough with half again as much flour and water called for (to make it bigger), and estimated by the total weight of the flours that 11g of salt should do it. And I did the routine of small kneads then stretch and folds, as usual, but baked it in the Staub, rather than making a Vienna style loaf. Somewhere in there, I just said, "Whatever. It's bread." Kind of a mashup of three recipes and some devil may care to go with the four kinds of flour.

Lo! Oven spring that held. Open crumb. Nice springy texture that isn't damp. Well formed, tasty crust which isn't thick or hard. Slashes that opened correctly but didn't misshape the bread. Really successful! I've made good improvisational bread before, but I usually try. This one is whatever. It's bread, but it's really good. :)

Featured Answer

colleenoz

4 years ago

I‘m always a little in awe of your bold bread experiments 😁👍

2kg is about 4 1/2 pounds, so just shy of 5lb 🙂

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Comments (10)

HU-455869934
4 years ago
Yaay! Love it when that happens. I’d eat that bread so fast you’d think it was teleported away.

Is the organic flour any different to use that standard store-bought flour? I’d like to try making bread with that.
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So, the thing about deciding to bake bread is to have time. My mother always started bread early, like before breakfast. I might start after my work is done and be willing to have it finally done after midnight. You need to choose a time when you can give it time. You can always shove your dough in the fridge if something comes up, but since you need to bring it back to room temperature before baking, I don't find it saves time. A long ferment in the fridge can do other nice things, but time saving really isn't one. Here are the instructions and the recipe for the bread above, with the additions as I specified in the original post: Bread is easy. Nearly foolproof and you're not a fool. The good thing about stylish recipes is the cast iron Dutch oven. As with other kinds of cooking, it takes away the variability of the ovens, which is the hardest part. The other thing is getting your hands to learn bread. To know when it needs a little more flour or water, more kneading, etc. Just keep trying. Don't go trying to use all the tricks and advice from different people. Just bake. Most times when you try a new recipe you can get a doorstop, or other mess. You can always turn it into bread pudding or crumbs. Try again. Bread is much easier with a kitchen scale, especially one that will do grams. You also need a big bowl and something to cover it with (could be a mixer bowl and a tea towel. I also use the Anchor Hocking 2 qt. measuring jug with cover). You need a clear counter space and a baking board or silpat to knead and shape your loaves on. A Danish dough whisk is useful, but not required if you're willing to use your hands to mix your dough. A heavy mixer will mix and knead. KitchenAid Artisan will do one loaf, or up to three if it’s soft dough. Anskarum will do big batches of dough. If your dough is very sticky and drippy, add a little more flour. 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plllog
Original Author
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Thanks, Colleen! I wasn't even thinking of the size of the bags—like that 2kg was probably a normal bag—so much as whatever the size of the ClickClacks, which are surely a round number of ml, they weren't designed for five pound bags of flour. :) That makes so much sense that they'd be generous for 2kg. ;) So experiments are no big deal if you're not scared of iffy results, Flour, water, yeast and salt, made into something that feels like bread dough, rises, etc., and baked off in the standard way, will be bread, and edible. A couple of the use ’em up loaves were a little salty or a little bland, some couldn't hold the oven spring and ended up disk shaped, but all were better than most store bought, for all their flaws. :)

934, Thanks! I've had to seriously restrain myself. This really was superior tasting, as well. Organic flour is just flour. It's a political choice. I choose organics when I can to promote sustainability. With fresh produce, sometimes organics taste better because the farmers choices are to grow tastier varieties rather than ones that work well with chemicals, but it's my belief that it's that simple, not some magic that lizards and ladybugs confer. I learned to bake with Gold Medal, and really don't mind using it even now, but I went almost all home milled, single source whole wheat for awhile—flavor abounds! But in the end, the whole wheat it wasn't good for me, and if I had to go back to white flour, I wanted organic, like my wheatberries. Central Milling has that, as well as the other, and whole grains. Iwas just starting to try their flours when the pandemic hit. It's good flour. Most flour is good flour, but I've never really cared for King Arthur, which is in the stores here. nothing wrong with the quality of KA, I just don't care for it.. So I'm trying others of CM's organics, and finding varieties that I really like. I could just mix up basic flour and VWG (vital wheat gluten), but while I do use it to fortify whole wheat, I think the strong flour bakes better than weak flour + VWG.
annie1992
4 years ago
Oh, that's a nice loaf. I'll take a slice, toasted and buttered. OK, I'll just imagine it...

Thanks for the tip on Central, too.

Annie
HU-455869934
4 years ago
plllog, I’m interested in organic flour because some have told me that they don’t tolerate bread well in the US but tolerate it fine in Europe. DD, for instance, had to (mostly) stop eating bread in the US and SWMBO feels bloated when she eats it. However, DD has been eating bread in Marseille with no problems and, albeit for only a couple weeks, SWMBO did too. A friend suggested to me that perhaps some people who don’t tolerate bread that well are actually not tolerating some pesticides, and that some pesticides used in the US are not used in France. His pithy explanation: ” sometimes bread allergies are actually Roundup allergies “. I have no idea if this is true, but I thought I’d bake a bunch of bread using organic flour which I assume is NOT grown with Roundup etc, feed it to SWMBO, and see what happens :-)

John Mr. 934 Liu
plllog
Original Author
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
OMG! John, sorry, I was thinking I should know who you were, but I didn't think it sounded like you or the couple others stuck with HU numbers.

It's possible, of course, about the pesticides, but there are also all kinds of things going on with wheat. I've never heard of someone having that kind pf reaction to pesticides in processed flour, but a quick search shows that they're present. I have heard of people having that kind of situation with exponentially hybrid wheats, who do fine on ancient grains like Einkorn, or even spelt, which is more modern. A lot of people who think they have gluten issues, really have FODMAP issues, specifically some carbohydrates that are mostly found in the same grains that have gluten. They might also be the culprits.

Do other wheat things bother them? Cakes, cookies, pancakes, pie crusts, etc.?

KA also has organics which might be at your local store. They are looser about their sourcing. I don't like baking with it, but many adore it. General Mills also does make organic flour, but it's not easy to find. I wouldn't be surprised if you found really good locally grown and milled organic flour near you. Google says (I didn't do the reading):

http://www.cascadeorganicflour.com/ Washington

https://www.camascountrymill.com/ Willamette Valley

https://bluebirdgrainfarms.com/product-category/fresh-flour/ Washington -- Ancient grains front and center

I don't know if any of these are sold near you, or anything beyond they say they're organic.

It's important to know the protein content of the flour (not the nutrition info number which has rounding error). My new high protein bread flour is 13.5% protein. It's Central Milling organic High Mountain. It's very easy to work with and has a wonderful chew. I just made my first sandwich from the loaf, and it was heaven. :) I've been using their Artisan Baker's Craft + flour for a couple of years for daily bread. I use the malted, which helps the rise (I add malt to whole wheat). I use the same flour, without the malt, for sweets. That has 11.5% protein, IIRC. It's a good analog for KA AP. Heavier than Gold Medal, but doesn't develop gluten as soon as it gets wet. Gold Medal All Purpose is between 10-11%.

Do you already bake bread? Do you know what kind you want to make?
Kaitlyn Lewis
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
I was baking bread for a while but stopped when the weight gain became undeniable. Mostly 85-100% hydration. I wouldn’t mind starting again. Still have my Electrolux mixer!

John HU934 Liu

WTF why do I show up as ”Kaitlyn Lewis”???

It’s like Houzz thinks I need a witness protection program.
John Liu
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Let’s try this again - who am I, as far as Houzz is concerned?

Edit: yaaaaayyyyy!
plllog
Original Author
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
YAAAAAAAYYYYYY!

You're John Liu again! Side note, when I was talking about rolling out pies on plastic wrap (superior method, but wasteful of wrap), I mentioned that silicone mats weren't thin, transparent or flexible enough--but thought I should check again, and Amazon had some, I think. I just washed one. Still have to try them. They're meant as table protectors but are food grade. I'm so glad you checked again and got your name back!!!

The weight gain isn't inevitable. I make one loaf at a time. It's easier and instead of tempting since there's plenty, it's make it last long enough to be happy to bake another. :)

Even though the ABC+ flour (11.5% protein) is supposed to be good for "artisan" bread, which generally means high hydration, I've found it to be too weak. It's lovely for 50-60% hydration. KA's bread flour has 12.7% protein. It works fine for high hydration, over 80%. The Central Milling High Mountain Organic I used for this loaf is 13.5% protein, but I also had the whole wheat from the whole wheat starter, the ABC (no malt) and the Tony G pizza flour, so I don't know what the end result percentage was. I did make a truly high hydration loaf with a similar mix of flour, but KA Bread flour for the most part, last month, and it didn't hold the rise as well, which I ascribed to too much water, but I can't remember if it had other flaws. The crumb was similar, however. If you want chewy and elastic, I'd say go with at least 12.5%. I've made a lot of actual recipes for bread with flour under 12% protein and far less liquid. Nice tender crumb, but I don't think any of them would hold up really well to high hydration, same as the ABC+.

So, note the big holes and voids. People task themselves to create these. I was looking for lacy just enough to make crannies for the toast butter. You get big holes and voids from it being too wet. The gluten breaks making the bubbles merge like bubbles in the tub. The trick is to have an open network of even holes without the loaf collapsing. This was a step in that direction, but I want lacy without voids, or at least, maybe one under the crust, but not so many. That's the trick.

All that said, the rest is up to you. You know how to bake bread. There's plenty of organic flour of all types to pick from. I've just tried to give you some points of comparison. Check out the protein content of the flour you last used as well. This lovely chart by Antelope on The Fresh Loaf is out of date, but should be pretty accurate for the ones listed. One nice thing about Central Milling is they tell you what kind of wheat it is and the protein content.

Chart: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17045/protein-content-flour

Have fun!
plllog
Original Author
4 years ago
I just got an e-mail from CM saying that they have 15% off of three pack samplers of the 5# organic flours.

New Shipping Rates at Central Milling. Whatever. It's Bread.

colleenoz

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