Bathroom shower wall codes...no wonder people use the wrong stuff!
I have been researching Kerdi, concrete backer board, Hydroban, Wedi, Redguard and other liquid membranes for my walls around my tub.
Today, I looked at the Residential building codes that Oklahoma uses (2015). Yeah, we are a few years behind in this state! Here is what I found.
No wonder people get confused...
R 307.1
Non absorbent surface.....not specified because new products come out too often. Very vague.
R 702.4.2
Backer boards for ceramic tile. Great! They listed them, but I only know what one of those means.
So, for Kerdi panels, Hydroban panels, and Wedi panels, which ones correlate to the ones listed in chart R702.4.2? I don't think they are glass-mat gypsum, fiber reinforced gypsum, or fiber cement.
R 702.3.7
This one I know, but everyone says to NOT use it for shower walls. Okay to use it for shower ceilings.
It doesn't say whether you can or cannot use them for the walls. (Even with a waterproof membrane painted on.)
R 702.3.7.1
"Limitations" says water-resistant gypsum shall not be used where there will be "direct exposure" to water or "continuous high humidity"
Bathrooms do not have continuous high humidity. We also have bathroom vents.
Since tile is on the shower wall, the gypsum does not have direct exposure to water.
P2710 says go back to R 307.2......
What about the boards listed below? Can they be used with a paint on membrane?
No wonder shower walls are so confusing!
So, why can we use products like Kerdi boards, Hydroban boards, and Wedi boards? What are they made of?
Thanks.
Comments (16)
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3 years ago
millworkman
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoRelated Discussions
Tiny bathroom---What do I do with this stuff????))
Comments (24)I think I take the prize for having the smallest main bathroom! Our house was built in the 1800's so bathrooms were not an option... The upstairs bathroom has a big claw foot tub... but the tub is set under a slanted ceiling so you can't stand up in it and there is nowhere to move it so it is very INCONVENIENT! I guess I shouldn't complain because at least we have an upstairs bathroom to use in the middle of the night! So, because of this, the downstairs bathroom is our main bathroom. It is approximately 46" wide by 9' long. Just enough room for a toilet, small 18" vanity (the only counter space is the small area around the sink) and corner shower. A regular shower won't even fit. The only blessing that comes with it is when the pantry was converted to this bathroom, the PO built a shallow cupboard above the toilet! Give me enough room to store some towels, toiletries, etc. It is about 8" deep and 28" wide. It goes from just above the toilet to the ceiling. If you lean back too far while sitting, your hair can get caught in the handles :) I wonder if you couldn't do something like this to add some storage space--- Note the towel rack in the pictures... it gives you an idea on how small the bathroom really is....See MoreValance and shower curtain fabrics for bathroom
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Comments (30)@Amir Ali - I just wanted to post a comment in order to: 1. Let you know that I completely understand what you are going through right now. I have TWO FAILING slate floors that are part of current bathroom renovations. The master bathroom floor had not been grouted due to delays on his part. I discovered that some of the tiles were COMPLETELY LOOSE - and some sounded like they were only partially bonded to the floor. This floor is failing - and it has BARELY been walked on because the bathroom renovation basically stopped due to issues - bathroom isn’t usable so the only use has been when I’ve gone in there to take photos or measure something = maybe some tiles had been walked on four or five times before I started discovering the loose tiles. It is obvious that the tiles failed to bond to the floor - the mortar must have skinned over or something. I am NOT reinstalling the loose tiles. IMPORTANT - my former contractor does not fit the definition of what people here on Houzz love to refer to as a “hack” (at least not the actual business that I hired to do the work) - however, his employee clearly did not know what he was doing (or just didn’t care) - and that makes the owner of the business liable for this work. The business has hundreds of Google ratings (4.9/5), owner is a member of TCNA, I had several reviews from people I know (and trust), and I DID NOT JUST TAKE THE LOWEST BID - I am NOT a CHEAPSKATE. I am so tired of people AUTOMATICALLY blaming the homeowner when they have ZERO basis to do so. Making assumptions and basically telling homeowners that they are IDIOTS and CHEAP really makes me upset. Okay, I’m finished with my rant! 😂 The ”fix” is this: The ENTIRE floor is being torn apart. Not only is the tile being removed, the cbu will be taken out. New contractor assumes that he will also find that former contractor failed to add the required second layer of plywood in order to make sure that the substrate was prepared correctly in order to have a natural stone floor installed. Based upon the above issues, I investigated the slate floor that was installed in one of the other bathrooms back in April. I noticed a few grout issues - and as I went around knocking on each tile, the sound on many tiles indicates tiles that are only partially bonded. This is what the floor looks like from a standing position: And this is what it looks like when I realized that I needed to inspect it after the failure in other bathroom: I have cracks and broken spots of grout in many places. I also have some grout which is stuck on my tile because the contractor failed to seal the tile (as required) prior to grouting (I found this out later - I was in the hospital while this floor was being installed) and made promises over and over to come remedy the issue. So, this floor will also be ”fixed” in the same manner as the first one - I’m just waiting to have it ripped out until after the other bathroom is completely finished. 2. I also wanted to let you know that regardless of whether (i) you have a written contract, and (ii) that contracts specifically provides (or fails to provide) a five year (or however long) warranty period, you still have recourse against the contractor who installed your tile. Most states (probably all but I haven’t done research on this issue in every state) have enacted statutes that protect homeowners for this type of issue. In my jurisdiction, there are specific statutes that relate to home renovation projects - these statues require (among other things) that all work must be done in a good and workmanlike manner. Following industry standards, as well as manufacturer’s specifications, are part of this requirement. Also, the consumer protection act in my state also protects homeowners against contractors who perform shoddy work. I am 99% positive that your state will have some similar statutes. If you want to share your jurisdiction, I am happy to take a quick look in order to point you in the right direction. MANY jurisdictions require the homeowner to provide the contractor with notice and a right of remediation. Unless you follow the requirements of your particular statutes, you won’t be able to bring an action against your contractor to recover damages. FYI - my former contractor has chosen to ignore the notice I provided, so I then was free to hire another contractor to do the remediation work. My former contractor will owe me the money I have to spend to correct his failure to properly install my tile (which will greatly exceed what I paid him - removing tile + cbu + buying new material (including nice slate tile - because I didn’t purchase cheap slate tile for the the project initially). I am sorry that you’re going through this because it is NOT fun. I decided to consider myself “lucky” because he hadn’t yet installed this tile on my laundry floor! Hopefully, you won’t have water damage that will require even more remedial work in order to fix it....See Moremillworkman
3 years ago
PROMint tile Minneapolis
3 years agowhen one is focused on race to the bottom and least accepted methods(irc) and cheapest materials it can get confusing, much like having your transmission rebuilt for $500 or $1500 whats missing.....you will eventually find out
focus on quality Materials TCNA/ANSI/MFG specs and the skilled installer to install properly and all confusion gone.
Linear drain curbless tub conversion · More Inforamona1976
3 years agomillworkman
3 years agoPeke
3 years agoWell, I finally found this post. I didn't get any notifications that there were responses.
Out of 17 different tilers, everyone has a different solution. Some I have discarded because even I know that the contractor doesn't know what he is doing. Others didn't specify what materials they will use and how their process. (even after I told them I wanted all details on the quote.) As for the rest, some wanted to use Kerdi boards, Durock only (HA!), and Durock and membrane. One said he would be willing to use Wedi foam boards. "Willing to use"? Maybe Wedi is the least likely to be screwed up if they have never used it????
So, the hall bathroom has been gutted since April 2020. The only contractor I fully trust is unavailable for another year, at least. Maybe more, since he usually gives me a date and that date is usually several months off his estimated starting date.
So, I bought 1/2" Wedi panels, but I may need 3/4" panels according to Wedi's instructions. One guy said 1/2" is fine with 16" on center studs. He was going by the pictures I showed him from Wedi instructions. The written words said something different, unless I have not comprehended it correctly. Quite possible.
Currently, there are only studs. Maximum stud distance = 16" o.c. which equals 407mm."Minimum required thickness of Wedi should be 20 mm (0.787") for 400 - 600 mm."
BUT.... The picture below shows "stud frame for 450 mm (17.72") washers and screws for BA 12.5"mm" (1/2") Wedi panels.
So, the picture above of the 450 mm shows BA 12.5 mm Wedi board, not 3/4" Wedi board. That is why one contractor said 1/2" boards are fine. He said the Wedi panels can go directly on the studs which is what my research found. However, I worry about the strength of it. If we put Durock on the studs, that would mean that the back tub/shower wall thickness would be 3/4" - 1" with the Durock and the Wedi. Then, the remainder of that wall would need to match that thickness ...another 4.25 ft to the corner.
I will email Wedi on Monday to clarify.
Should we attach the Wedi directly to the studs or should we put Durock behind it for support? What has to be done to the Durock if it goes behind the Wedi panels? Does that decision matter whether we use small wall tiles or 12" x 24" tiles?
Thanks.Peke
3 years ago
Bruce in Northern Virginia