Maddie - we have very low rates of Covid here but a very hateful governor that has not listened to his constituents. Signs that said "Going out of business, thanks to governor X" were common here this summer. Gotta head out to water plants but last I checked we still have counties with zero hospitalizations and zero deaths.

Raye, I still don’t understand why your doctors are not seeing patients in their offices? It sounds like you are saying your governor has shut down medical care, it would be informative as to why. Because where seems to be a question you refuse to answer.

Ever consider that maybe you have few cases of Covid because your state shut things down?

I have doctor friends throughout the country, they are now all seeing patients personally.

How is it 'hateful' to try to protect people's lives? Business can rebuild, but the impact of a deadly/debilitating disease will force much, much greater economic woe than preemptive lockdowns.

The economic pain is a given, the only choice we've had is to sacrifice some now, or much more later. And the damage could also have been lessened by people adhering to public health guidelines, instead of defying them.

My dentist office is open and seeing patients for cleanings and everything else. I did get a temp check at the entrance, and had to fill out a "covid form" first before entering, and yup had to wear a mask until inside the dental room. But generally, nothing too difficult or challenging. Dr's offices are all open too.

Here is one example of an economic woe shoe that is yet to drop.

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/05/29/u-s-looking-at-a-tsunami-of-evictions-as-moratoriums-expire/

I wonder what is protecting landlords whose property is mortgaged and who are unable to meet mortgage payments because of rents that aren't being collected. Perhaps the moratorium extends to them?

Small example of economic woe.

https://www.grubstreet.com/2020/08/nyc-restaurant-industry-complete-collapse.html

Sjerin - I am wearing a mask in public (and social distancing) even
though I seriously doubt that it can stop a virus when I can smell the
food in the grocery store through it.

Rae, how do you deny that study after study agrees that generally, masks keep the Covid from infecting us? And now another study tells us masks lessen the degree of severity, even if the disease does manage to invade a masked body. Asians have known this for quite some time and have the good grace not to collectively say, We told you so!

Also: Big box hardware stores were able to stay open, as well as the small ones. And I don't know why you cannot do so, but we can and do see doctors when needed. I would certainly prefer a video call, if possible, unless the issue warrants an in-person visit. I live in the same area as wildchild, and hope you don't believe her sweeping statements. Perhaps her medical office has such a policy (?) but I don't know anyone else who is unable to see a doc if needed.

"Rae, how do you deny that study after study agrees that generally, masks keep the Covid from infecting us?"

It's the dogma and practice of one political party. Facts don't matter. Remember early on the TV comment of the brain dead adviser talking about "alternative facts".

I've been taking my 90 yr old mother to her Dr.s appointments for months now. The offices follow safety protocols - no waiting in the waiting room, temp. checks, etc..

Her primary care Dr. sends a nurse practitioner for home checkups monthly.

I have a hunch some people may be exaggerating just a teensy bit...?

we have very low rates of Covid here but a very hateful governor that has not listened to his constituents.

Raye, I don't know what state you live in, but I'm guessing your governor is a Democrat. Surely you realize not all the constituents disagree with him--especially those who have made the connection between the governor's mandates and your state's very low Covid rate.

DH has seen two different specialists in their offices within the last three months, and I've seen one. All three have offices within the hospital complex. I have infusion therapy alternate weeks now at the cancer clinic at the same hospital; was weekly for eight weeks before that and monthly before that, continuing uninterrupted since before the pandemic hit. DH will have his teeth cleaned next week -- same routine Jemdandy posted.

A pandemic is a disaster, no way around that. Scientists say we could have saved tens of thousands of lives had we masked, distanced and washed AS A Nation. My county lost over 400 people, most of them before our governor (Pritzker - D. Illinois) initiated lockdown in late March. Now Illinois has groups of counties being monitored and opened/closed in response to virus stats in each grouping.

My democratic governor did a great job which is why our statistics are way better than most states with the same population. He had to fight tooth and nail the GOP legislature but in the end, Dr. Deborah Birx who was raised here said what a wonderful job he did despite the republicans who wanted to open everything up in the spring.

And isn't it ironic or coincidental that the states that have recently spiked - Texas, Arizona, Florida, and Georgia, are led by Republican governors? And then on Aug. 25th these states spiked - North Dakota, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Maine. Maine does have a Democratic governor, but is bordered by Vermont and New Hampshire, both Republican. Why is that? Why can't states led by Republican governors get their states under control? The other states in the country are carrying the weight for these inept governors.

I recognize this isn't "scientific," more interestingly ironic.

Because they're morons. It isn't now or nor ever has been a political matter. Leaders and representatives of whichever party who are not smart enough to understand and think their way to thoughtful positions and conduct should be replaced by individuals who aren't so dim-witted. The political parties involved really shouldn't be a consideration.

This isn’t a blue vs. red issue. Each and every adult needs to take responsibility for their actions and not rely on government for protection. I’m in Illinois which has a Democratic governor and we aren’t doing so great. We are averaging ~1500-2000 new cases per day. At least the death rate is down considerably from a few months ago. I admit I’m a bit puzzled by the rising cases as mask wearing seems to have a high degree of compliance in my area and my son said the same about his Chicago neighborhood.

I beg to differ - everyone for themselves doesn't work for a pandemic. We need to be working together, coordinating and sharing resources, and need a central command - i.e. federal gov't - to oversee a national effort. Supplies could be manufactured, allocated, & dispatched to areas according to need.

The reason our country is in a shambles now is because it's been left to individual states, counties and communities to scramble as best they can and to compete for resources.

Too many people are confused about best practices and up to date information, which is contributing to the spread of the virus.

That's true, it's not a blue vs. red issue. At least it shouldn't be. It's a health crisis. But it has been turned political with certain members of the population following the lead of the WH. There has been a complete lack of leadership from this administration. Leaving it up to each state to figure it out - how's that working? Why couldn't the WH administration taken charge and handled this crisis as a country? Why leave it to individual states to fend for themselves? Because they didn't want to rock the stock market and the economy. But again, how is the way the country is handling it actually working? Why is the U.S not going to get back on its feet until 2021, and probably later in 2021, when other countries are already seeing success in how they're managing it?

How many people have died needlessly that wouldn't have if this crisis had been managed effectively from the beginning?

Some of the information on COVID has been confusing and given the size of our country, what’s the best approach in one area may not be the best approach in another area (ie. rural vs urban). Some states have done a good job of controlling the spread, others clearly not so much. It has been made clear from the medical community that masking, distancing and hand washing are needed to curb the spread. Seems simple enough to follow but there are typically folks that rebel against any suggestion of civic responsibility and this seems to be more common in the U.S. than many other countries. Since the government is refusing to lead, then each citizen should be responsible for following the requirements to curb the spread. It just doesn’t seem that difficult, but apparently it is for some.

In talking to family and friends, it seems like those that are staying home are more afraid than those who are going out and about (albeit in a cautious manner.)

I go to work every day. I’ve visited stores on occasion, walk in the park and visited my dentist and doctor. I wear a mask at work when walking around the office, but not when sitting at my desk. I wear mask if I am patronizing a business, but don’t wear one while walking in the park as it’s easy to keep my distance. I even recently attend a business dinner in a restaurant with a group of 10 (quelle horreur!). I canceled an out of state vacation for a staycation but regret doing so. I’m cautious, but I’m not going to sit home 100% of the time waiting for the sky to fall. I’m tired of the whole thing as I’m sure everyone is.

"Some of the information on COVID has been confusing"

and

"each citizen should be responsible for following the requirements"

How do you know what the requirements are when the information has been confusing? How can citizens follow requirements that are confusing?

I think the info has been clearer in recent months especially from the medical community as I mentioned above....masking, distancing and hand washing are needed to curb the spread. For heavens sake, this isn’t rocket science and shouldn’t need a government mandate. Folks hang out in crowded venues such as bars or at college parties. I don’t buy the excuse that they didn’t know their actions could cause the virus to spread. They are just being selfish. Time to grow up, be an adult and show some respect for your fellow citizens.

I also am tired of the hysteria in the media. They lead with bold headlines that don’t accurately represent the details in the stories.

"shouldn’t need a government mandate"

Maybe it does. What's it going to take to get past it? Continue doing what we're doing? How's that working?

I don't know what the answer is, but what the U.S. is doing isn't working. Something needs to change, or we're going to continue to have spikes. Other countries are managing to put it out. What are they doing different? Why can't we?

"Some of the information on COVID has been confusing"

I think most of the public health directives have, from the start, been pretty clear and straightforward. Advice most people can understand.

What have you found to be confusing.

Jumping in, the whole mask thing was not handled well.

Wear a mask, don't wear a mask. Oops, yes, wear a mask.

I don't know what is so confusing since I have worn a mask since mid-march and continue to every day of my life except when I'm alone in the woods or in my yard.

Agreed. It was a complete no-brainer. Wear a mask. Stupid simple.

I've always worn a mask. The directions though, were inconsistent. The CDC initially said to wear a mask, then said they weren't effective, then said to yes, wear a mask. Some news sources conveyed conflicting information. I know some folks who were confused by the changing of information. But I've always worn one regardless of the changing information. It is a no brainer and not hard to do.

Like this, for example, from Fox News (not a channel I listen to or watch). But some people do. And this is what causes confusion.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/who-guidance-healthy-people-wear-masks-around-coronavirus-patients

Elmer - I was referring to the early directives that masks would not help and then a few months later that we should all wear masks. Dr Fauci days one thing and the WH contradicts him.

Exactly, heritagehd07. Depending on who you listen to, the guidance could be different. Dr. Fauci would give guidance, and then like you said, the WH would say something else. So it's not so simple to say it's a no brainer.

I consider it a no-brainer because how can anyone think that it would NOT help to wear a mask?? I don't even get that? Why do medical professionals wear masks? Why have people in Japan and Taiwan (and elsewhere) worn masks for YEARS. If you left the politics out of it, and and used basic common sense, and you should, you would simply have put on a mask at the outset. CDC? WHO? Trump? Who cares. Wearing a mask to protect yourself and others is such a simple thing to grasp.

I pretty much did the opposite of everything trump said and listened to the medical experts. Fauci said hunker down till the end of 2021. If there is a vaccine in a few months, how many people will take it and how long will it take to distribute it to the billions of people in the world or the many millions here in America? I get a flu shot every single year but I will not be one of the first to get this vaccine. I heard it will be two shots such as the shingles one has.

Wear a mask, stay away from others, wash your hands frequently or after contacting something in public. The same practices used over 100 years ago during the Spanish Flu pandemic.

Nothing is ambiguous, nothing has changed. Except we have more idiots who have trouble following simple instructions or who want to make public health matters political, which they're not.

Edit to add -

Ignore anything said from the morons in the White House and others who want to ignore truth and facts. That also hasn't changed.

All I'm trying to say is that not everyone is as smart as us (me, Lily, Chessie, Elmer). It's obvious not everyone is otherwise everyone would be wearing a mask. Lots of people dismiss Dr. Fauci and anything he says.

I'm agreeing with you. I'm just trying to point out that not everyone thinks like we do - the people who like Trump don't. When you have Trump suggesting people ingest disinfectants, well, there you go. It's obvious not everyone thinks like we do - wearing a mask - otherwise we wouldn't have such a big problem still.

One of the confusing mask things in this state is the 6 feet distancing. Now that it has been found that 6 feet may be a little safe but it is not "Safe" the information is still not being distributed. Apparently some areas wearing a mask when outside is mandatory. That is probably a very good idea especially if your walking trails/sidewalks are as narrow as they are in some areas.

Yes - the other day I learned that recent research is showing that 6 feet may be insufficient in some cases, maybe many cases, and that 8 feet is better.

I have only been out and about once a month pretty much and never at grocery or other stores.

Sue

Sephia - that so funny!!! Have you always been so sarcastic?

Raye, that's so funny. Have you always been so passive-aggressive?

All - I find it confounding that people would dismiss what Dr. Fauci (a known expert and leading scientist) says and believe what the buffoon in the White House says when it comes to medical science.

Suzie - one could say that they have a specialty or more experience in a particular area but for a person to claim they are smarter than everyone else (and include a few other dubious characters) is just plain laughable.

Even Dr. Fauci said in March of 2020 that "Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks" without any qualifier that his statement is subject to change. And this is a direct quote "Wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better ... but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is".

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-masks-no-longer-needed/

Raye. You do understand, of course, that everything about this virus has changed as more has been learned about it, right? As with every new illness? The unknown gradually becomes the known, And guidance naturally changes. As you quote Fauci, above, “Right now ...”. That was then. As more was learned, more could be conveyed.

The qualifier that you want and apparently fail to see is exactly that ... “Right now....”

And ... if you read your own link to Snopes, you'll see that the result is "Outdated". Sheesh, Raye.

Suzie - I can't comment on Raye's meaning but when I said upthread that some of the info was confusing (Elmer called me out on it) it was the change in messaging from no need to wear a mask to wear a mask that seemed to cause some folks to rebel (along with the WH messaging). Or maybe they would have been anti-mask irregardless of the WH response

Also I just realized when I post comments from my phone I'm signed in as Hdheritage07. However when I post from my iPad I come up as HU-215578420. Not trying to be disingenuous but Houzz is being kind of weird when I sign in.

"Sephia - that so funny!!! Have you always been so sarcastic?"

Raye, I'm not typically sarcastic, but I can be. Usually with dense people who persist in perpetuating false information.

Here's Raye's Snopes article. Uh oh, outdated information? Because the guidance has changed!

Jeez - I posted that to show that Dr. Fauci isn't perfect, he changed his recommendation, this is for those that think he can't be wrong.

OMG. He changed his recommendation because more was learned. What don’t you get? I have to stop now because you’re in my head and that’s not good.

Dr Fauci is a national treasure, widely admired by EVERYONE in the US and abroad in the medical field for his knowledge, insights and leadership for many decades and for having served many presidents of both parties. Going back to Ronald Reagan. He's declined promotions to higher office within the NIH, including to be the overall Director, because he thinks he can do more good where he is focusing on infectious diseases.

He's served a career and one half in public service for the greater good, content with earning much less than he would have earned in a non-federal job.

He's had his shoelaces tied together by the morons in power in Washington thinking only of themselves. He's been given the task of walking a tightrope, saying enough to get messages out to the public but not saying too much to get fired.

Those who don't see the predicament are oblivious to the truth of what's been happening. Oops, the word "truth" pops up again. Currently in disfavor by some but hopefully soon to return to prominence.

"he changed his recommendation"

Of course he did! That's the whole $#&^@#% point!!!!

More was learned about the virus and value of masks, so he changed the recommendation. Raye, why do you continue to bring up what he USED to recommend, and not the current information? Why do Trumpers continually bring up Dr. Fauci's recommendation that has since been updated? You did it yourself two hours ago!

I need to stop now too. I can only take so much of your illogical, crazy thinking.

Ignorance is bliss.

Who cares if throwing a baseball isn't Dr. Fauci's forte? How does that matter? Such a petty comment. He's served every president since Reagan. Must be doing something right and know a thing or two.

Dr. Fauci's bio, awards, recognition

I live in a small condominium. There is a Board of Directors and they are all owners in the condominium. They can make certain decisions without a vote from the rest of us. BUT they will be held liable if their decisions are not based on what a reasonable person would do, based on the best advice available. They can't make a decision based on what somebody suggested or that uses a source they have investments in.

If the same rules applied to the administration -- follow the advice of the people who are agreed to be experts in their field -- not the advice of one "expert" over in Minnesota or not the advice of a business partner. -- if the same rules applied, then this administration would be charged with negligence -- at the least -- right here and now.