Well I think there is more to it than that laceyvail...We are back at Mass. To say praying at home and celebrating Mass are same same is hugely underestimating what is going on at Mass, but THAT'S a pandora's box for another thread. Still makes me wonder how the church in question and that State is doing church? We are wearing masks, and we are sitting at 25% of capacity of our sanctuary so a good 10ft away from others. We are singing--against what our Governor and Bishops agreed to-- but our town has FEW to no COVID issues...so yes we are taking licence..it's just a fact ya can't spread what ya don't have. There is nothing selfish about any of it. It is about free choice and the people choosing to attend are curiously all over 60+ and all THRILLED to be able to worship as the constitution allows!! I do think taking temperatures and wearing it boldly like a boutonniere would be a safety measure easily enacted. They took my temp. before I had an eye appointment/dental/ at the blood bank when I went to give blood. Why not we all take our temps before we leave home..seems simple enough. That and donning mask should keep us all feeling safer. It seems to me this 'visiting' preacher is the issue and my in laws were giving their two cents about airports and airport cities being a huge area of illness..are we traveling unnecessarily? THAT could be an issue, attending Mass--not so much.

"all THRILLED to be able to worship as the constitution allows!!"

The freedom to practice or not practice religion is present and available in dozens and dozens of democracies around the world. All of them. There's nothing unique about that in the US. Why would you think so?

"the people choosing to attend are curiously all over 60+ a"

Religious practice is waning in the US as in other countries and it's among younger adults that the lowest percentages of religious participation can be found. Nothing curious about seeing an age range that's skewed to older adults at a religious gathering.

Yes, wearing masks would be a huge improvement, but I don't think people were wearing masks in any of the churches. You see hardly anyone wearing masks in WV--only some in Kroger, no one in the IGA, either employees or customers, in the county seat and pretty much no one on the streets; only doctors and dentists here are being exceedingly careful and have redone how they take patients.

And I guess I forgot about Mass and Catholics. I do assume that you're all not taking communion, or if so, in some new special way. Do stay safe.

And the visiting preacher was only in the Greenbrier Church. Several churches throughout the state had outbreaks and no visiting preacher.

I don't see the relevance of your post, Elmer.

Yeah, you're right to an extent, I changed it. Thanks

The problem with the temperature check is not all spreaders have a fever, not all of those who have it have symptoms, or they can be symptom free for 4-5 days even though they're infected. So it can give a false sense of security.

Our church has been doing FB live since the lockdown started back in March. They are working on a plan to re-open with ways to keep people safe... limited #'s, seating blocked off, masks, etc. My dh and I are probably going to just keep watching on-line.

My mom however is 84 and has no internet access so she can't watch her church online. She went to church last Sunday for the first time in months and told me she cried all the way thru the first song, she was so happy to be there. She feels safe with their precautions although I don't feel safe for her. It's her decision and I'd never tell her to stay home.

The problem with the temperature check is not all spreaders have a
fever, not all of those who have it have symptoms, or they can be
symptom free for 4-5 days even though they're infected. So it can give a
false sense of security.

You're right on the nose, Annie; this has been bugging me for some time. Besides those who are asymptomatic but positive, I believe there are plenty of people who would hide a fever using a fever-reducer, to do what they wanna do. I think taking temps is a waste of time.

Arcy, are you going to Mass inside a church? Apparently ours are allowed to do so outside with no more than 25 people, but I won't be one of them until a vaccine is available. Watching Mass online is fine.

Just found out that no one in the Greenbrier church was wearing masks--and this is a church with many multi-generational programs, fellowship and youth programs. Some churches are doing it with great care and thought. But this one? No precautions at all, masks being the most basic. Simply selfish and arrogant.

I wonder who tells the congregation(s) not to wear masks? Common sense would make most don them.

I don't see anywhere in in arcy's post where she stated, or even inferred that our constitution or our country is unique in allowing freedom of religion. Am I missing something ?

If statistics are showing religious practice is waning, you sure wouldn't know that where we live. There are churches everywhere here, including three on the section of road we live on, which is only about three quarters of a mile long.

I have wondered if the ones that are supposedly not having a fever are like myself. My normal is between 97.3 and 97.6. When I reach 98.6 I do have a fever. Recently I read that doctors are rethinking the 98.6 standard and believe it should be lower than that.

"...it's just a fact ya can't spread what ya don't have."

But you don't know you don't have it!!

From the CDC:

CDC continues to study the spread and effects of the novel coronavirus across the United States. We now know from recent studies that a significant portion of individuals with coronavirus lack symptoms (“asymptomatic”) and that even those who eventually develop symptoms (“pre-symptomatic”) can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms.

l look at it this way. Cases are spiking all over the U.S. People are refusing to wear masks. Any correlation?? So just keep on arguing about muzzles and your rights. If everyone would get on board we could perhaps reduce the spread. But too many people want to spout off with their rights, and deny it's even an issue.

woodrose, what's the relevance of mentioning the constitution as was done other than to infer there to be a connection or "special" right not available elsewhere that it provides?

My comment was to say "Huh?", there's no connection or special right. What if someone were to say that they were able to worship because everyone in the congregation ate peas and carrots every day for one week?

It is about free choice and the people choosing to attend are curiously
all over 60+ and all THRILLED to be able to worship as the constitution
allows!!

Elmer, I think you read a lot more into Arcy's post than was intended. I took her mention of the constitutional guarantee of the free exercise of religion simply as a recognition of how unusual it was for the governors to not allow indoor church services for a while. I can't remember that ever being done before.

Arcy made no comparisons to other countries - you inserted that idea.

I'm Catholic. The archdiocese told us to stay at home and watch mass on tv. I was happy that they were so pragmatic and were putting safety first. The safety of all. I am fine with watching it on the tv. It's what's your heart not where you put your keister.

...recognition of how unusual it was for the governors to not allow indoor
church services for a while. I can't remember that ever being done
before.

We haven't had a pandemic in quite awhile. :)

I wonder if they limited church services in the 1950s for the polio epidemic.

Without searching too deeply, or even reading the whole article, it seems at least some churches canceled in-church worship in 1918.

https://www.al.com/coronavirus/2020/04/what-clergy-said-when-influenza-closed-churches-in-1918.html

I wonder if there were as many protests against closures back then?

I wonder if they limited church services in the 1950s for the polio epidemic.

At least in certain places, yes. I just did a quick search and found two articles with the following quotes:

Look at polio. Movie theaters closed. Church services cancelled. Kids home from school. Swimming pools closed. It shut down American towns.

A month later, with known cases spiking to over 60, the city council voted to close all indoor meeting places, including theaters and churches. Tourists stopped coming to the city. The economy shrank. One local doctor said, “We got to the point … when people would not even shake hands.”

graywings, I have no idea why any mention of the constitution has relevancy to what she was talking about. Maybe she was intimating that "rights", as she see it (or as on Fox News propaganda discussed) were infringed because of the prohibition on public gatherings.

If so, tough. The government has the right to restrict and withdraw otherwise available civil rights provided by the constitution and other laws when done to protect the public and or in the public interest. It's been done innumerable times in innumerable places and it will be done again and again. That's what functioning governments do, something we've not had enough of (functioning governments) in 2020.

Another drive-by shooting, some users tend to make comments and turn tail and run without responding or offering further explanation.

Back in May when Trump ordered churches and religious services to resume, and if the governors didn't immediately allow it, "If they don't do it, I will override the governors," the bishops of the WA State Catholic Conference issued this memo.

Mass returned here. I am still not attending. No way. Not until there is a vaccine.

It's now 34 cases from that church in Greenbrier, and here's a news item illustrating exactly what I meant when I said it's selfish, arrogant and profoundly un-Christian:

LEWISBURG, W.Va. (WVVA) Days after a COVID-19 outbreak inside a Greenbrier County church, the mother of a member of the Church is coming forward saying she was never notified of an outbreak.

Ashley Guet's son, 12, attended the Graystone Baptist Church in Lewisburg on Sunday, June 7th. She said she was notified Wednesday by a youth pastor that services had been cancelled that day, but there was no mention at that time of a possible COVID-19 outbreak. In fact, she said COVID-19 was never mentioned by the church until she learned of the outbreak on wvva.com over the weekend.

Between Wednesday and finding out on Saturday, she said her family continued on with their normal activities, including shopping at Walmart, grocery shopping, and caring for her mother-in-law who battles Multiple Sclerosis.

"The potential that is there is mind-blowing. I feel guilty. I feel awful. I question myself, saying I should not have sent my son that day. I trusted them. I believed in them. I thought they had my son and my family's best interest at heart, but apparently they did not."

Speaks for itself.

Let's hope their 'normal' activities include masks, physical distancing, and hand washing when they visit grandma.

Highly unlikely, mama goose. Nobody is wearing masks here except a few old people.

34 cases, wow. Doesn’t bode well for trump’s rally. Attendees are recklessly foolish, putting others at risk.

It's happening in rural Oregon too, linked to a Pentecostal church. They never stopped church services, thinking that the virus wasn't in their county so why change behaviors. They recently held a wedding and a graduation, both with over 100 attendees.

A church in rural northeastern Oregon is now the epicenter of the state’s
largest coronavirus outbreak, as 236 people tested positive for the
disease, authorities said Tuesday.

The outbreak also led to Oregon’s second consecutive record-setting daily coronavirus case count.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-06-17/church-linked-oregon-largest-coronavirus-outbreak

And I see tiny babies in baby buggies (do they still call them that?) and strollers in public. I get that they couldn't wear masks, but being exposed like that to the crowds. Just today, at the local RKO farm store. And I mean the baby was very young,snoozing with a pacifier.

From everything that I hear, being outside is entirely different from being a closed space, especially if there's a breeze. And length of exposure to another person is also a critical factor. Walking by someone is entirely different from having a 15 minute conversation with them.

Terri Gross on Fresh Air interviewed an expert: "Dr. Michael Osterholm is the founder and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. His 2017 book, Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs, was recently republished with a new forward about COVID-19. Mark Olshaker is co-author."

The 45 minute interview can be listened to here, and Osterholm has some very interesting things to say: https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk