Ok the initial post here suggested we share what the experience of the virus is. I read quickly, but if it's here I missed it. Does anyone here know someone who has/had the Covoid-19? How long did it last? Flu like symptoms they say..but for how many days on average? I get the flu shot each year because I work in schools and my Doc tells me it helps me not SPREAD it. I have NEVER had more than a 24 hour type bug. Being around kids helps strengthen your immunity in the long run. We keep talking about closing schools--but day care's seem more logical.

The first cases have been reported in my area in the last couple of days. I'm not panicking at all but I did take a nice Purell bath last night, I highly recommend it!

My company is preparing for a possible lock down and having everyone work from home. They will be issuing lap tops to those that don't have one. We already have a secure website to access our networks remotely so it really isn't anything new. They are asking for at least 1/2 of the employees to work from home this Thursday to test the website capacity. We have a network operations center that requires about 25 people to be on site 24/7/365. We have a backup site located in a cave that they will work out of if the main building is quarantined.

“Jeopardy!” and “Wheel of Fortune” will not be taping with a live studio audience amid ongoing concerns about the spread of the coronavirus.

It’s unclear how many shows will be affected, but both “Jeopardy!” and “Wheel of Fortune” were set to continue taping into next month. The decision comes a week after “Jeopardy!” host Alex Trebek gave an update on his health a year out from his pancreatic cancer diagnosis. Though the host said he was doing well in the video, his age and his diagnosis would make him particularly susceptible to infection. The two Sony Pictures Television-produced game shows are the latest events to be affected by the outbreak.

It is forcing us to rethink some of the most expensive stuff we have at our office--travel expenses. Why can't we have Zoom meetings instead of face-to-face? Or have a face-to-face meeting and include others via Zoom. It's saving us money in the long run, and maybe we'll reach wider audiences. Maybe it's not a bad thing? I'm not sure, but I'll try to see the bright side.

I read where some state universities are doing online classes only, not physical ones.

I can understand wanting to just hole up and sew for a couple of weeks. But how can someone shop for fabric with gloves on? It's such a tactile purchase. I keep putting off major grocery shopping but I always do that because Trader Joe's is such a zoo. Did have my first elbow bump yesterday, though. From a doorman I hadn't seen in years -- it was kind of fun!

https://www.siouxfalls.business/in-the-thick-of-it-sioux-falls-company-developing-potential-treatment-for-coronavirus/

I've seen that a town in New York state is going to quarantine itself. So quarantines haven't worked in China, Italy, Germany, an Asian cruse ship and so on. So why do they think this will stop the disease spread when all the others have failed?

I've always heard that crazy is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results....

Raye did you see Graywing's post at 9:14 yesterday? And excellent post showing how two towns had an astounding difference in mortality due to social distancing.

And here is Michael's post:

In 1918, there were communities enforcing their borders with armed guards. The influenza didn't touch those communities.

Not stop, slow. So health care systems are not overwhelmed. As much as possible.

Gotta make dinner so didn't have time to scan through all the posts above. A few things to remember:

1) Evidence is accumulating that there are "super spreaders" - people who do not show symptoms, but actually are infectious.

2) Interesting Wired article: Kids Can Get Covid-19. They Just Don't Get That Sick

New data suggests that children aren’t immune to the new coronavirus. That could have huge implications for efforts to contain local outbreaks.

Wired.com 07Mar2020

https://www.wired.com/story/kids-can-get-covid-19-they-just-dont-get-that-sick/

(excerpt) " The outbreak of a new virus always breeds confusion. Where did it come from? How does it spread? How dangerous is it? Ten weeks into the Covid-19 epidemic, enough information has emerged to start filling in some of these gaps. Scientists believe the virus that causes the respiratory disease is likely to be transmitted in droplets through coughing. The available data suggests that a single contagious person will infect about 2.2 others, on average. Globally, 3.4 percent of reported Covid-19 patients have died, though that fatality rate is likely inflated, since people with mild symptoms are probably not being diagnosed and counted in the overall patient pool.

But as the weeks have gone by, one mystery has remained: Where are all the kids? "

3) Paper masks are useful - for those who ARE coughing or sneezing (and it's not allergies, LOL). They should wear the paper masks to avoid infecting others - don't forget, this is still flu season, and it was already forecasted to be a bad one.

Two cases confirmed today in Michigan! They are middle aged the article said but not a lot of information, just that they have been hospitalized.

jasdip, I talked to my son last night and asked him when I get to town tomorrow to pick him, what if he doesn't get to go back? He's super worried he can't. He does not do well online. I know I couldn't either. I had one class that way, and I figured out I was never doing that again. Neither of us has the discipline to do it? Oy. I'm sure we're not alone. I wonder how this might affect graduation too? I feel sorry for this year's seniors in high school and university.

Two cases confirmed today in Michigan! They are middle aged the
article said but not a lot of information, just that they have been
hospitalized.

Why do they withhold information about the confirmed cases? It's good to know names and locations to help identify others who may have had contact. Where did they contract it? International travel? We should know!

Here in Columbus, a few idiots are protesting the cancellation of concerts and bar band gatherings. Imagine placing concerts and $hitty bar bands over the health of a city.

They don't identify patients due to HIPAA and other regulations that protect patients identities.

As for not overwhelming medical facilities that's been a huge failure also.

. Where did they contract it? International travel? We should know!

Are you looking at your state’s health department announcements? Ours (Florida) looks like this...

I found out this morning one case was in Wayne county and the other was In Oakland county. Both counties are near Detroit. The man had a history of international travel and the other case had a history of domestic travel. So no indication as to where they might have contracted it.

When the 'work from home' idea was fostered years ago employees complained that it put them 'out of sight -- out of mind' regarding recognition and promotion. Every person in Sales knows the value of 'face time'. There have always been people trying to make themselves look dedicated by coming to work early and staying late, even it they accomplished no more in that time.

I've been to Wayne and Oakland counties, but not in 6 months.

Maddie, thanks for the health department tip. Ohio has 3 confirmed, a couple from a Nile River cruise and a man who attended the AIPAC. There are 14 negative, and 255 under health department supervision.

Fortunately Ohio is blocking or restricting visitors to nursing homes, assisted living and retirement centers for the disabled.

Precautions and social distancing can help a lot. The pandemic is going to get worse, but it can be slowed. The woman wearing the mask — maybe it’s to remind her to not touch her face. What’s it to anyone else? Only she knows her medical and health circumstance.

It is not wise or helpful to view things as black or white, all or nothing. Most real life situations fall within the gray zone.

The US used to be a leader, but no longer. Politics, cutbacks, ignorance, and we fall behind.

MASSACHUSETTS is now under a state of Emergency because of an overnight doubling of the confirmed Covid-19. In the early days of this very emergent, highly infectious disease, serious missteps and inept leadership allowed this novel coronavirus to flourish.

Here is an informative article from the Boston Globe which illustrates the CDC repeated fumbles.

Inside the Biogen outbreak

A routine conference was followed by ominous signs, and a frightening realization slowly dawned: The virus was on the loose

http://epaper.bostonglobe.com/infinity/article_popover_share.aspx?guid=19bc48cb-b19e-4062-8172-eb9af733b4ad

Feel free to pass it on. This globe e-article has no paywall.

For the people avoiding Chinese and Korean restaurants, my daughter works at Cheesecake Factory and a Sushi (Japanese food mostly) place which is owned by a Korean couple. At least 4 people at Cheesecake Factory are sick. One is my daughter who had to go back to work yesterday or lose her job. One left on Saturday with a fever and no idea if she was diagnosed with anything.

Last night my daughter said another of her coworkers just came back a couple weeks ago from Italy. She had forgotten about that. She isn't sick as far as my daughter knows. So, if one of them has Covid 19 no one will ever know because they aren't testing and most of the people are caucasian that work at this restaurant. So avoiding certain ethnic restaurants or businesses is useless.

How can people be so wrong-headed, money-fixated and selfish? What a disgusting tale. I hope the owners/managers (whichever is applicable) get sick, they deserve to suffer personally from their own poor judgement.

One of the troubling things I learned was that once one has the virus and has recovered, there is no immunity, which is different from other viruses and the regular flu. This is why we need time to develop a vaccine, and so it makes sense to be extremely cautious at least until there is a vaccine.

My brother works at Sony right across from the stage where Wheel of Fortune is recorded. So far, Sony employees are not being asked to work at home, although my brother has done that on other occasions when we were out of town. Normally his commute to work is bad in the morning, but because we live in Silicon Beach (near huge Google and Facebook offices), traffic has lightened quite a big, as Google and Facebook here are having people work from home. We're going to Palm Springs this week-end, and we'll see how the traffic will be on that trip.

Just heard that a specific place in a specific country, their entire ICU and CCU are completely full with people who actually need hospital support for this. Not here. If you have a heart attack, what happens then? This thing has to stop. China may be the only one to stop it correctly. It's drastic, but it may be what is needed. Oy. So hard to fathom that.

In most hospitals here there is a triage staff that analyzes who needs to be seen first. People who are unable to breath are near the top of the list.

Right. It was an MD who told me this. So what if you have severe trauma, for instance, where do they put you? We need to avoid being like Italy.

Rob, it is ABC, airway, breathing, circulation, as the top emergency triage decisions. They would analyze the 'severe trauma' to see if the ABCs were involved. Certainly huge blood loss can lead to circulation problems.

Our (US) hospital system does not have enough ventilators that will be needed to help all who are stricken. Total for the country is under 63,000.

And that is one of the reasons for quarantines, social distancing, etc. so the case rate slows down and not everyone getting sick at one time. I still doubt it will be enough.

I work in medical research. I'm well aware of ABC? I keep giving you different examples, but it doesn't seem to be sinking in. There have to be beds and people to care for those in the beds. If they're taken from also very serious cases, what happens? After this, I give up, but I know you're smart, so I'm really confused why you're saying what you are to me??? What am I missing?

I fully get what Lucille is saying.

BTW, according to health authorities, 80% of infected people do not require hospital care.

If you can stay home, stay home. Yet some will feel compelled to travel here and there, making matters worse.

Rob, obviously what happens is that after the triage, some patients may die. There may not be enough resources for everyone to live if everyone gets infected at once and the normal emergencies on top of that..

What am I missing?

I keep on mentioning triage, whether it is trauma or the virus, patients will be separated by severity. Some with the virus feel terrible, they will go to the waiting room. Some actually cannot breathe due to airway problems, they will go near the head of the line. Ahead of them will be those gunshot wounds who cannot breathe and are losing blood.

We sure aren't paying attention to the rest of the world, failures and successes. Taiwan and S. Korea have their acts together. Europe not so much and neither do we. We are triaging everyone who calls for Covid 19, we are supposed to call the ER they are going to in order to warn them, but most likely they don't even have test kits so it is pretty pointless. I only know of one hospital in this city that is testing and am pretty sure they are only testing those with known links to positive patients or ones that are extremely ill.

look at this. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Canada does not have a large number and almost all related to persons who recently travelled abroad. Few deaths.

Rob, I wonder what information you have about what I have heard that it's usual for a person who has been infected to show no signs for around two weeks but to be capable of passing on the infection during that period.

If true, that can cause major problems of transmission.

ole joyful

An oncologist who just returned from Hawaii has contacted the disease. She's in self-isolation.

Next week is March break and I know people are still going to be keeping their plans to fly south, etc.

"Canada does not have a large number and almost all related to persons who recently travelled abroad"

Since the disease originated only in China, until it's been present in a new place long enough for what I've learned is called "community spread" to begin, ALL cases in any country or area are related to people who recently traveled abroad or others who've had contact with people who did

My understanding is you can have the disease and spread it for up to 4 days before showing symptoms of it. And it seems to be spread simply by breathing.

Joyful,

The CDC says 2-14 days after exposure to be symptomatic. Not to mention, a person could have a milder version, and attribute it to some other disorder, flu, cold, asthma, etc. Just because someone gets it, doesn't mean they know they have it.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/symptoms.html

I believe it’s gone past that, Elmer. China wasted valuable weeks by trying to deny and hide what was happening. Meanwhile, there was ongoing connections of those afflicted Chinese to citizens from other countries as well as Chinese travelers and business people. That was December 2019 into January. The US via Trump administration cut back on intelligence staffing (high up) and emerging disease watchers (experienced experts). Around February 29, 2020 a person in the northwestern US (Washington or Oregon) died of the very new, novel corona virus. The US (because of cutbacks and politics and pleasing & sugar coating the truth (politics from the ill informed top leadership) quickly fell fast behind at a time when things were moving very quickly and silently (beneath the radar).

First, the CDC had limited test kits, but these could not be used because of a defective reagent. New test kits were released, but some leadership and decision makers at the CDC (and White House), and the very limited number of test kits (and limited, “unimaginative” “vision”) the criteria for testing was far too narrow. This narrow criteria limited testing to only those who had travelled to China or a hotspot. AND, the test kit had to be requested, approved (only is narrow travel criteria met), then the test kit was sent to the clinic or party authorized to receive it. AND, if that wasn’t slow and restrictive enough, through some bureaucratic policy stupidity or legal jam up, places like the hospital in Northern California, who requested a test kit from the CDC for the previously healthy young early middle aged woman, were told that, even though the woman was very ill with sudden respiratory distress, the woman did not qualify for testing because she did not meet the limited, dumb-butted criteria. No travel was involved! The woman was very ill and was transferred to Univ California Davis connected hospital. The Davis, California Hospital contacted the CDC to request a novel coronavirus test kit for the patient, and again, the CDC denied a test kit. The woman continued to worsen. AND, when the Univ of California, Davis asked if they could test this very ill woman with a non-CDC test kit, they were told that they could not.

The World Health Organization (WHO) and other agencies had their own, non CDC, test kits for the new virus. South Korea and China had been testing patients with other non-CDC test kits. But our leadership, government and CDC insisted that no other agencies test kits could be used (even after the faulty test kits (bad reagent) had to be recalled. University of California is top notch with hundreds of established scientists. They are no slouch. No fraudulent sued “university.” They were not allowed to develope or use anything but a CDC test kit, and only if a patient met the CDC’s very foolishly restrictive criteria that, at that juncture, included travel from or related to China or a hotspot.

Only after four (4) days, and after being put on a mechanical ventilator, extremely ill, did this woman somehow get tested. Maybe the course of her disease might not have been different, but how many other people, staff, medical workers were needless exposed to this new, highly infectious virus?

I think that the Covid-19 virus is fast entering the “Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon” realm. You can get sick with this without being a first or second inoculation cousin.

See now? In retrospect, it’s dawned on even third rate epidemiologists and “leaders.” We were given a bit of lead time after China bit the bullet and began to address the contagion head on. But the USA squandered lead time. (Third rate managers or leaders often like to hire third rate experts and help.)

If these same people were charged with developing the microchip, lightbulb, or automobile, the US would not have been the first.

A lot of people are going so suffer (already are suffering) in a variety of ways. Imagine being in a nursing home (not fun), whether your a senior with some dementia, or recovering from hip or knee replacement and you cannot have your family visit to take the edge off your loneliness? Or, you are needing services (exams, respiratory therapy, whatever, but because of this mismanaged crisis, have to go without.

I need some exams and surgery. Not sure what to do, yet. Today I ran errands at a government building and some stores after that. Not crowded, everyone very nice. No masks or gloves. I washed hand and had the hand sanitizer with me. But I have itchy eyes and it’s rough not being able to scratch an itch. I ended up touching my eyes and scratching a bit. Sigh.

Sorry this got long again. I have buckets of work to do, some medical issues to have addressed, and this serious public health mess and inept leadership making it worse, is frustrating. Be well and take care,everyone.

Kathsgrdn, I hope that your daughter and her friend/s will be better soon and that they do not have Covid-19.

Sadly, I imagine that there will be workers who will go to work when sick. Some people cannot risk losing their job, house, car payment. And, some people are just a tad numb or oppositional. A friend was at an urban medical center and this very unkempt, scrawny, filthy man walked in and to the clinic desk. He had a juicy cough and the triage or desk nurse gave him a mask and instructed him to put it on. He took it off after a few minutes. Began smoking in the men’s wash room. Disgusting. He clearly isn’t the “quarantine a home” sort of guy.

The person with the first case in Washington State had a version based on genetics (all virus change at a predictable rate) that meant it had been here six weeks before he was diagnosed. He had to have contacted the disease from someone who caught it here. It changed the reality of the disease but most people are continuing to ignore this. It hasn't been a Chinese disease for a very long time.

Thanks, Petalique. I hope you get your medical issues addressed in the best way. I have gall bladder surgery scheduled in late April. I haven't canceled it yet, but I don't see it happening. I didn't want to get much older before undergoing general anesthesia again, but the coronavirus is certainly concerning too.

I just saw that Tom Hanks and his wife, Rita Wilson, have been diagnosed with the virus. They're in Australia.

Patricia — so much info to digest in this Orwellian world. I didn’t know what you just told us, am not sure I understand it, but want to learn more. Things are moving so quickly. Where might I learn more (I read slowly) and can you point me to some resources?

And do you know what is going on with the woman at Davis? I hope she is off the ventilator and recovered.

Alisande, thanks. depending on where you’re located, you might want to get the GB surgery. You sure don’t want to have an acute attack, necrosis or a stone lodged in a dicey area. Maybe go for it now before things really get wild.

petalique, I get it. My comment was addressed to the tiresome schadenfreude practitioner with yet another episode of "here's a problem the US has that Canada doesn't". About which he was, as in the past, wrong.

Thanks, Petalique. My daughter's breathing is better than on Saturday, but still sick. We won't ever know what it was we have. Good luck with your medical issues, hope things aren't put off because of the virus.

I did cancel all my appointments this week, but came in to work yesterday. I don't want to overreact and discussed it with my supervisor. I'm making sure I wipe down the microwave after I use it with antibacterial wipes, coughing into tissue, opening the doors with the inside of my sweater or a paper towel. Trying my best not to spread whatever I have to anyone.

I just heard Jacob Ward*

on CNN say a few interesting things.

1. That with the case of the woman patient in Northern California, 36 nurses had to be quarantined! That’s a lot of staff missing from duty.

2. That the travel ban is misdirected. (Could you guess that xemophobe Stephen Miller wrote Trump’s speech? “Foreign” Disease.” The Covid-19 virus is here in the US and elsewhere already already.

(not sure if rest is from Jake Ward or another good guest)

3. TESTING TESTING TESTING (and no backlogs, please)! Testing allows epidemiologists to learn where our own hotspots are. We need to be able to plan & allocate resources. A few days ago, some expert said that one thing large scale testing for the Covid-19 virus does, is allow pretty good zeroing in on who’s got the virus, where they are. They (epidemiological detectives) can interview patients and use various paper, mobile phones and electronic tracking to help them figure out common trail and sources. (Cue up Forensic File music.)

4. One of the expert guests suggested, depending on how “hot” your area seems to be or likely will be, to postpone elective surgery to free up hospital beds. I guess my surgery is elective ;-/ but I am in significant discomfort/pain. I think it is a go home that day, but light general anesthesia or just put me in a coma. Small joint surgery.

Alisande, Isn’t that laparoscopic gb surgery pretty much go home the next day? See what your docs advise.

5. The US has tested only a few hundred and there is a backlog on getting the tests processed. South Korea has tested a few thousand individuals, and weeks ago. The US has handled this situation so very poorly. The virus has exploded in such a short while. Maybe someone has accolades for the CDC leadership (Reddington (spelling), a nodding bobble head. Top leadership has been abysmal.

Don’t hold out for a vaccine, even in 18 months. This is a tremendously difficult thing to achieve with a coronavirus.

We can attempt to slow the spread, to flatten the curve, but this disease is going to sweep over us. “Social distancing” is one way to help slow things down. It is too late to stomp it out (on this planet anyway). Gird you’re loins, folks.

Seniors congregated close together in nursing homes is a perfect set up for lots of very ill and dying citizens. It’s not going to be nice.

”We’re fighting an enemy and we don’t even know where it is,” says Ron Klain, former Obama Ebola czar, speaking of the incredible lack of testing. He also said that when you look at the Johns Hopkins virus map and see no red dots or blobs in an area (day Maine or Gondwanaland), it cannot be interpreted as meaning no Covid-19 there. Rather, it indicates that there has been no testing there.

(Returning my tix to Gondwanaland.)

* Jacob Ward is excellent. Smart, calm, trained, experienced.

Be responsible for yourself and your behavior. Protective measures such as distancing, staying home, washing, covering, no visiting or visitors etc., will lower the burden on health care facilities.

Are you doing your part?

Just saw a FB post showing a band challenge at a bar in Cleveland. Stupid people will continue to be stupid.

In our area, it seems if you show signs of flu, they test you for flu and if the test comes back negative, they are presuming it's covid. Of course that means that you won't show up in the official count as they won't add you unless you've had a positive test.

I hope I can be forgiven for my naive post that started this thread. I'm not removing it because the thread shows the progression of greatrer understanding about this *crisis*. I did just start a *rallying* thread: Flatten The Curve!

DH (81 and healthy) and I (weeks from 79 and living with multiple myeloma) are staying home. He is making runs to CVS, grocery, library (how to clean books?). I have to go to the cancer center monthly for chemo shots. The family celebration of spring birthdays has been cancelled.

I expect we will be refunding the $7K in bookings for guests yet to come to our Maui condo. I worry about the whole tourist economy there. (Our cleaner works steadily for us and other owners, earning $135 per cleanout; no guests, no cleaning.)