Flour - AP, Bread, and Cake
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
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- 6 years ago
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Flours: cake vs. bread vs.AP in cookies
Comments (13)The original recipe on the ny times website has the flour listed in weight. No need to convert. The website you used appears to have removed the weights. I love this recipe and usually have a batch in the freezer. Chocolate chip recipe Published: July 9, 2008 Adapted from Jacques Torres Related Perfection? Hint: It’s Warm and Has a Secret (July 9, 2008) Time: 45 minutes (for 1 6-cookie batch), plus at least 24 hours’ chilling 2 cups minus 2 tablespoons (8 1/2 ounces) cake flour 1 2/3 cups (8 1/2 ounces) bread flour 1 1/4 teaspoons baking soda 1 1/2 teaspoons baking powder 1 1/2 teaspoons coarse salt 2 1/2 sticks (1 1/4 cups) unsalted butter 1 1/4 cups (10 ounces) light brown sugar 1 cup plus 2 tablespoons (8 ounces) granulated sugar 2 large eggs 2 teaspoons natural vanilla extract 1 1/4 pounds bittersweet chocolate disks or fèves, at least 60 percent cacao content (see note) Sea salt. 1. Sift flours, baking soda, baking powder and salt into a bowl. Set aside. 2. Using a mixer fitted with paddle attachment, cream butter and sugars together until very light, about 5 minutes. Add eggs, one at a time, mixing well after each addition. Stir in the vanilla. Reduce speed to low, add dry ingredients and mix until just combined, 5 to 10 seconds. Drop chocolate pieces in and incorporate them without breaking them. Press plastic wrap against dough and refrigerate for 24 to 36 hours. Dough may be used in batches, and can be refrigerated for up to 72 hours....See MoreCake flour 'substitute' ???
Comments (8)For the small amount of cake flour called for in this recipe, it probably won't make much difference and I wouldn't worry about it or alter the amount (more about that below). If you keep one of the Southern All-Purpose flours around for making biscuits and quick breads (White Lily, Martha White, Gladiola or Red Band which have 7.5-9.5% protein) it would make an excellent substitute (cup for cup) because it has close to the same amount of protein as cake flour (7.5-8.5%). People who make lots of quick breads and cake would get better results if they DID use a Southern All-Purpose flour instead of National Brands and Northern Brands of all-purpose flour which have more gluten/protein in them. Southern All-Purpose flours have less gluten than Northern All-purpose (Robin Hood, Hecker's and King Arthur 11-13%) and National Brands of All-purpose flour (Gold Medal & Pillsbury 10-12%). It's all about the gluten development... The more gluten there is to develop in the flour, the tougher the cake will be. But once again, there's not enough cake flour in the recipe to worry about. Hendricus gave the #1 advise when substituting all-purpose flour for cake flour - less mixing. The more you mix, the more the gluten develops into long strands. The more gluten you develop during mixing the harder it is for the leavening gases to escape. They literally have to "drill" their way through the long gluten strands. The leavening gases leave narrow holes that run from the bottom to the top of the cake (or quick bread). Tunnels are the hallmark of overmixing and over-developing the gluten. There's not enough cake flour involved in the recipe to alter the amount of the flour. The reason for reducing the amount of all-purpose flour when you use it instead of cake flour is because gluten absorbs a lot of hydration and the cake can be drier because of the added gluten found in all-purpose flour. A reduction of the amount of all-purpose when substituting it for cake flour will reduce the total amount of gluten -- a little. There's a third way to reduce gluten - add more fat. Fat coats the gluten so that it doesn't have as much contact with the hydration, so it only develops into short strands. This is a common method used when people want a more tender pastry crust and are using one of the higher-gluten (higher protein content) Northern all-purpose flours. After the flour lesson, I wouldn't worry about using all-purpose instead of cake flour. -Grainlady...See MoreQuick question about self-rising and AP flour
Comments (5)I looked it up on some substitution sites and they say a cup of self-rising flour has about 1 1/2 tsp of baking powder and a 1/4 to 1/2 tsp of salt. The recipe uses more than 2 cups of flour so that might be too much baking powder. If you have enough AP to do half and half, that might come closer....See MorePantry Magic and the Miracle of AP Flour
Comments (3)A quarter teaspoon makes such a difference, doesn't it? I once lived in a time and place where bp and soda came in little packets. Measuring was a big problem, and I finally learned that half a packet, by eye, of baking powder was enough for a cake, and that it didn't really matter so long as you didn't forget it. KA are protein happy. :) Their flours are "heavier" than others. So I guess it's natural that the helper suggested half AP for cakes. Or they say that so it'll come out more like cake mix. For standard American white flours, there are four basic categories based on the fact that Southern wheat is traditionally "soft" (lower protein=less gluten) and hard Northern wheat gives "heavier" (higher protein=more gluten): pastry flour 6% protein, cake flour 8% (plain soft wheat), all purpose flour 10.5% (mix of both kinds of wheat), bread flour 13% (hard wheat). As flour is milled and sold there are a lot of variations. They can test for the protein content of the crop, and try to produce a stabilized protein content so the consumer can have a similar experience, bag after bag. Scroll down to Antilope's chart detailing many flours by protein content: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17045/protein-content-flour For cake, you don't want gluten development. If you leave flour mixed with liquid to sit, the gluten will develop itself. That's the genius behind no knead bread. Kneading promotes the development of the gluten. Stretch it, bang on it, roll it, and it speeds up the process. You can also control the extent by feeling the texture. That's bread. For cake, you want fluff not stretch, and the stretchy gluten will just make the cake tough. If you bake a cake with pure Swansdown cake flour, you'll get a lovely, airy, melt on the tongue (especially if your fat is butter), open crumb, feather light cake. That's the point of cake flour! With major mill standard white AP, you'll get a denser cake that is still light, but more substantial. With heavier AP's, like King Arthur unbleached, you're wandering into bread territory. As I said, my biscuits, which are also in the feather light, no gluten zone, seem to love KA unbleached, but it's better for lacy breads than cakes. In cakes, it's noticeably heavier in the eating. Lacy bread comes from gluten that is strong enough to puff up well but weak enough for some of the bubbles to break like they do in bubbly bath where they combine to make bigger bubbles. I haven't been baking as much this past year so have less flour, but always have wheatberries (hard red, hard white and soft white), ryeberries, and small amounts of other grains, to mill as needed, as well as vital wheat gluten, barley malt, etc. I also keep Gold Medal white, Gold Medal bread (for my mother's challah recipe which is more like brioche and doesn't want a heavier flour) and KA unbleached white. I've been known to use KA unbleached bread flour for country style bread, but in the past I was far more likely to use whole wheat so haven't been keeping it on hand....See More- 6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago
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6 years agolast modified: 6 years agobbstx thanked sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA)
6 years agoHope you don’t mind me tacking on a flour question. I’ve been making pizza regularly while in quarantine, happy with the results but figure there’s always room for improvement. Remembered this thread:
https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/2494510/best-pizza-dough-ever#n=34
which reminded me of 2 kilos of semolina flour I ordered a while back and never opened. Nov ‘19 date. Think it’s ok? What should I be looking for, rancid taste/smell?
bbstx thanked foodonastump- 6 years ago
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