countertop installation-pay GC or pay sub direct

4 years ago

Designer has made some mistakes. Then she had sore throat and wasn't feeling well when we were supposed to meet to go to countertop fabricator. I told her I could go alone for now since she was sick and cabs will be installed next week-I only have Fridays with hubbie at home with kids. The place said she hadn't sent the rendering to them so they wouldn't give me much to look at. I told them I just want to stay in the budget of the white quartz she bid me at (which I brought a sample of) and it made it difficult to get any good shopping done. She finally sent rendering and I explained to them that the countertop would go out to an 8' window. The guy said designer didn't draw it that way and it would increase price. I feel like I was there 2 hrs and it was a lot of work having them pull out slabs and while the guy who was walking me around was hitting on me. I never found anything accept for a slab of quartz with veining but I also wasn't in love with it-they said it was pricey and my biz has taken a dive with covid so I want to save money somewhere.

I left and went to AZ tile discount center and immediately found 2 slabs of veined quartz that I liked a lot. 3 cm and ranging from $600-$800. From my math and another fabricator I called I just need one slab. I'm not sure what to look for besides cracks but AZ tile told me they have 40 of one of the slabs and 60 of the other and that they are good, just discontinued.

If I had the fabricator I called (who I don't know, he was just on a list from AZ tile) it was around $1600 for installation + $600-800 for a slab= $2200-$2400. GC/designer quoted me $2355 for installation of 2cm quartz and with veining $6500 for white quartz and maybe $1500 more for veining. I have a neighbor who had some good work done or I could use the same fabricator the GC uses since I know someone who used to work there and they say 21 yrs ago they used to do good work and honored their warranties... I'm looking at $9-10,500 with GC or less than $3k if I manage this myself. The fabricators say that it goes just the same if the owner or GC pays. Since my countertop goes straight into the window I'm a little nervous about that, but that's the GC's responsibility to make sure they installed the window and will install the cabs in the right location so that the quartz can fit on top, I'd think.

GC has been good so far but the designer has really missed some things and my guess is this part of the profit goes to the designer? That's a huge amount more! Even if I paid full price at AZ tile, I'd still save potentially $5-6k.

Any tips or things to consider? So far I notice that with a lot of it like the bathroom I did, I'm a fine GC because it's my house and I'm detail oriented, but I know that I dont' know what I dont' know....

thx!! sorry, another long post!

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Comments (12)

millworkman
4 years ago
If you deal with with the fabricator direct and cut out your GC you very well may take on all the responsibility for the tops fitting and the balance of the project. Or you will owe him what he would have made for him to take on responsibility again.
mamaandsage thanked millworkman
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
4 years ago
"... while the guy who was walking me around was hitting on me."

I'd like to know if this increases sales or not.
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My DH is in the construction business and we considered OB because we knew contacts for more than 80% of the project. However, we went with a GC for many reasons the most important being that DH is a busy man and couldn't be onsite all the time. As it turned out, the GC's experience was invaluable. Our home was custom designed for us and thus many unexpected structural questions came up which someone not building residential homes everyday would not be able to handle. Knowing subs and knowing the inside and out of house construction are two different things. OB houses usually take much longer and as logicalone says, that costs money in interest. Our GC used some of our subs and some of his. His subs had no problems with schedule and quality of work because they have worked with him numerous times and know what he expects. If they don't perform, he doesn't use them again. It's a real headache if you hire a sub who does inferior work. If you're not in the "know" about subs, what will be your basis for hiring them? Lowest or highest bid doesn't ensure quality work. You might want to look at the recent post about a lien being placed on a GW member's home. That is another area which you need to be fully educated in before you try to OB.
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If you are considering the GC consult with an up front fee, are you basically saying that you want a 1 time consult or do you want someone "on call" for the duration of the project? If it's only a 1 time consult, I'd say you have to pay in full up front. If you want the "on call" approach, I'd say that paying in installments would be the way to go. I GC'd our recent remodel which ultimately took 4 1/2 months. In deciding to take that role, we interviewed 5 GCs, and assorted individual tradesmen (3-4 per trade) ahead of time. We learned alot about the actual construction of our house and what our project would involve through the interview process (we had architect's drawings to work from). We pulled our own permits and learned alot about what our city was expecting through discussions with them. We knew ahead of time what we wanted and we learned how it needed to be done. The ultimate decision to GC ourselves was made because I tend to be a perfectionist, am a good planner and am very detail oriented. I, too, work full time and used a fair amt of vacation time when I was needed on site for questions/specific meetings etc. In addition, my employer was flexible with letting me leave early for meetings and I made up the time by going in early and working late on other days. Every tradesman that we worked with came with at least 5 personal recommendations and we checked every single recommendation. We put in about 4-5 months of doing our homework to make the decision to GC ourselves and yes, save some $$. This was after we had the plans in hand and before the first speck of demo started. We ended up using one company for alot of our project and the lead fellow told me about 3/4 of the way through the project that he was very surprised how smoothly it was going especially since I wasn't on site regularly. I'm convinced it turned out that way because of how "on top" of things we were as homeowners. Did any of this planning prevent some scheduling difficulties - No way! We progressed pretty well from day 1 of demo to the day the cabinets were delivered. However, one cabinet had been measured wrong and that threw an entire wall off...which threw the countertops off...which threw the backsplash off...which threw the stove off...which threw the plumber for gas line hookup off. That one cabinet added 1 month to the total project. At all times, I was working with scheduling two weeks out while following up with the day to day details. A small project does not guarantee fewer problems. In my experience, any project will have surprises and it's the surprises that affect how smoothly things runs. One of the things we were advised of repeatedly during our planning phase was to expect time and cost overruns due to the surprises. We could not see how the cost overruns could happen due to our planning but we remained open to that possibility and it did ... due to having to deal with some unexpected structural matters. Would I GC again? Yes. Is it a very time intensive process to GC? Yes. Did my eyes get opened during this process? Yes. Would I want a concrete guy in the GC role on a total build job? Nope. I guess my bottom line thought is that a homeowner should realize that if they act as the GC, they are going to have a part time job in addition to their full time job during the duration of the project. Only you can decide about your commitment level.
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These are my pics of my countertops placed Friday June 22, 2018. I cried looking at these seams. It looks so cheap. Fabricator explains that's the way it comes. I explained that I shouldn't be able to see the seams so clearly. It looks so unprofessional. They ended up taking them back to their warehouse. In hopes they say if it is quality control will try and fix it just to make it look better. Otherwise I will have to pay an additional fee for them to come out again to install. I just don't know what to do and if still looks the same. This is the first time I've replaced my counters in 24 years. I don't and can't live with it. looking at this for another 24 years. It looks so cheap and it really was not it's a lot of money to me. I hope fingers crossed that they will fix this problem. They never told me that there would be such seams. I thought the edges were done by a machine and it would be all one piece. I have read up on this and now understand there are seams. But now I do know that they should not look like this. If they are good fabricator you shouldn't be able to see them so clearly. I will find out next week what happens.
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mamaandsage
Original Author
4 years ago
Joseph, no it doesn't. He gave me his number and said that he could probably get me a good deal but he already had his number written out of paper before I had told him I was considering not using my contracted for the installation. I'm hesitant to call him back although I have heard that they are a good company. It's fine, just not something I particularly want to deal with.
User
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
There is no kitchen that only takes one slab unless it’s a NYC galley. Most take 2, and with veins, 3. Unless you want the ugliest mismatched seams ever in s “Help” post. And no quartz is that cheap. Or fabricator. Going rogue and not knowing what you’re doing, or who you’re doing it with, is gonna cost you way more than you think. This has disaster written all over it.
mamaandsage thanked User
mamaandsage
Original Author
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago

Thanku live wire oak. I'm not sure if this means anything to you but this is my kitchen. The countertop should go out to the windowsill which the designer did not draw it like that. When I do the math once I was enough for the perimeter as we're doing Butcher Block on island but I see what you mean by matching the scenes. I'm not quite sure how that would go. Is it usually the fabrication company who figures that part out? I think the fabrication company I would be going with have a good name, at least according to the person that I spoke with who used to work there so many years ago and my contractor who uses them.

Gc tends to be flexible with allowing xclients to do some of o own stuff and ask me a couple ago if I still wanted them to install my countertops or not. I guess if I got plain white quartz it's more cut and dry.
PRO
Granite City Services
4 years ago
I am a fabricator. We do retail work all the time. We have learned to ask a lot of questions that the typical homeowner doesn't know to ask. A GC and a designer can be a real asset for a large project like a complete remodel but IMHO isn't required for a countertop upgrade.

That said; going thru a designer or GC (which will cost more) gives you more leverage in the event there are problems as the GC is a repeat business customer for the fabricator and retail is typically one off.

If you are dealing with a competent fabricator you should know what slabs will be used and how the seams will look before anything is ever cut. Details like corner radius, sink model(s), and overhangs should all be clearly defined.

my 2 cents
mamaandsage thanked Granite City Services
itsourcasa
4 years ago
We went directly with a fabricator who came recommended, not through GC. He measured, sent me to places to look at slabs, he called me with prices on several styles and we chose one then he installed. Very quick and easy!
mamaandsage thanked itsourcasa
mamaandsage
Original Author
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
Oldryder, That's very helpful! I'm not sure if this would be considered a big job but having made my window counter depth and 8 feet that part could be potentially tricky. I guess if it's an extra $1,000 that's okay but if it's an extra $7,000 then I will just go with the guy who has done work for a couple of neighbors who has done this for 30 years if I get a good feel for him. I think he does it on the side on the weekend though and works for a company on the weekdays.

As far as k model do you mean that because I am getting an undermount sink it will look a certain way? One guy I talked to said that he thought that 3cm looked a little bit sick for an undermount while another guy said he thought it looks fine and a lot of people are going with 3cm nowadays. I prefer the idea of 3cm if it's not much more money because I do not care for the laminate seam. Thx!
mamaandsage
Original Author
4 years ago
Thank you everyone! There is a lot to think about.
wilson853
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
We did a first floor remodel including the kitchen. When it came to the countertops, I handled them myself. Everyone around here does 3cm. We never see 2cm in our area. I did not want my KD involved for a number of reasons. I sourced the slabs and fabricator and they did a wonderful job. Make sure that you can see examples of their work, especially seams, and that you are at home when they template. Everything should be specified in your contract - layout and veining direction with your signature approval, sink installation and reveal if you are doing an undermount (positive, negative or flush) edge treatment, overhangs, and how they will handle the inside corner. We did a French mitre in our only corner to get a crisper inside radius. Countertops are the icing on the cake so choose a fabricator carefully.
PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
4 years ago
IMO at this time keep your butt at home not out shopping . Put some plywood on the counters until the time comes when this can be templated. Right now the fewer people out shopping and visiting your home the better.
strategery
4 years ago
tl;dr

Do you have a GC?

countertop installation-pay GC or pay sub direct

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millworkman

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