@mama goose_gw zn6OH, if you run out of alcohol and if your state liquor law allows its sale, pure grain alcohol can be substituted. Granted, it will be a pricey substitute. The only brand name I know is Everclear. It comes in a variety of proofs. As long as you buy 140 proof or higher, you’ve got 70% alcohol. DD’s FIL bought 2 gallons a week or so ago. He figures he can drink it or disinfect doorknobs with it! The man’s got a great sense of humor!

Oh, Ida, I am so sorry. Breathing difficulties are terrible.

Thank you, Zalco. I feel like such a whiner and know there are others much, much worse off than I.

" the virus is most often communicated through droplets as opposed to aerosol"

Yes, indeed.

The main culprit: SPEAKING in face-to-face interactions.

Whenever you have a conversation, droplets of spittle are emitted, which will contain the virus if the other person is infected.

Video below shows what happens when we speak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzARpgx8cvE

There are no "safe words" but interestingly, one of the words that produces most of the droplets is the word "healthy".

Also, the louder the speech, the more droplets are emitted.

And, some people --- we may all know at least one of them --- are super spreaders, i.e. have a wet articulation. Still, everybody more or less produces these droplets that may carry pathogens.

So, do not TALK to people face to face unless you'd also exchange saliva with them.

Use the phone, skype, conferencing apps, face time, email, texts, etc.

In the meantime, here are some links to research articles showing how normal speech produces large quantities of droplets and particles that are too small to see by eye, but are large enough to carry a variety of communicable respiratory pathogens.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30787335

on loudness

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30787335

and certain sounds

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31986165

So interesting, thx NoSoccer.

Just saw a horrible video on the WSJ site about ventilator rationing. https://www.wsj.com/video/new-york-drafting-hospital-guidelines-on-possible-ventilator-rationing/2649238C-EF8C-4DE8-82DF-636D49C274FC.html

They already developed protocols for this for flu epidemics. They would evaluate very 48 hours if a patient was getting better and what their prospects were. And they'd take them off a ventilator if someone else needed one and had better prospects. In cases where two people need a ventilator and their prospects overall are not significantly different, there is even a lottery mechanism.

Couple this with a video from a Dr. Porter, who very reasonable estimates that we have 2% of the ventilators we would need (albeit only if everyone got sick at precisely the same time... but you still get the magnitude of the shortage) https://www.newsweek.com/doctor-sister-congresswoman-katie-porter-flattening-curve-amid-coronavirus-1493588

Conclusion - we cannot be *too* careful.

Re virus lasting in the freezer——of course it has not been proven yet, but something to consider and keep in mind:

“Research into similar coronavirus strains has shown that, in general, coronaviruses are stable in freezing temperatures and have been shown to survive for up to two years at -20 degrees Celsius,” explained Dr. Mohamad Mooty, Department Chair, Infectious Diseases, Medical Subspecialty Institute, at Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi.

Given that studies on SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, two recent coronavirus outbreaks, showed that viruses could survive for up to 72 hours at the average temperature of a fridge (4 degrees Celsius), Dr. Mooty said, “It is safe for us to assume that the virus responsible for COVID-19 might be similarly persistent.”

If the new coronavirus is as persistent as its predecessors, it could survive on surfaces in freezers long after authorities aim to have suppressed the pandemic – living on food packaging in a freezer, for example.

“While we do not know the specifics of how long this virus can survive on surfaces, it is best to be safe and act as though it is able to survive on surfaces in freezing temperatures for anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of years,” said Dr. Mooty.”

Although we are staying at home as much as possible and trying to only go out for groceries, I"m not decontaminating purchased food nor am I consistently disinfecting surfaces in our home. We haven't been anywhere in a group setting other than an outdoor pool party a week ago at the neighbor's. Obviously that's not a good thing but we weren't as cautious at that point and we won't be getting physically close to anyone from now. Fortunately it was only people living on our block so we know that at this point nobody has had any ill effects.

Generally speaking as far as contagion opportunities, we are retired, there's only the two of us in the house and we haven't had anyone else inside for months other than our housekeeper almost 2 weeks ago. I'm telling her not to come next week (paying her of anyway of course). We can stay self isolated here for a looooooong time!

As I think Mtn pointed out, people have such a wide range of decisions to make on how to deal with this. I've got a FB friend who after taking a sick relative to the dr while wearing full protective gear herself-head to toe body coverage and an M95 mask-has self quarantined by physically having her husband lock her in a bedroom with an adjoining bathroom(!). The rest of the family does not come near the door; husband only leaves food on disposable plates outside her door which she opens only after they all leave the house. She will not wash her clothing or bedding for two weeks, will not leave the room and will not physically see or directly speak to a family member for that entire time. And the relative did not test positive for COVID. So I'll be an outlier and say that seems a bit excessive to me.

That said, I'm washing my hands very frequently especially when I do go out but even during the normal day. Trying to stay home other than food runs-Publix is providing a 7-8 am senior shopping hour starting next Tuesday so my husband who qualifies (over 65) will go for milk and anything else we need.

Tourists and visitors have FINALLY been told by county administrators to leave the Keys by 6 pm tonight and all bars, restaurants, parks and public beaches are closed so fingers crossed this place will empty out, calm down and the residents can sit tight and follow the new rules. Including this resident ;).

Nosoccer—-your post is interesting because other than touching an infected surface then touching your nose, mouth I thought someone had to cough or sneeze around you for those droplets to travel, not just through normal conversation.

Yeah, I read very different things about what I think is the most frightening aspect --- its survivability on surfaces. Some think you can extrapolate some think not -- and Fauci in particular seems to think surfaces are an exceedingly low risk. Have you seen him defend the fact that, at one of the first briefings, he, among others, adjusted the microphone when they spoke! And they all shook hands. (face plant emoji, with clean hands of course)

IdaClaire, I am on the other side of the country from you (Virginia) but want to mention that I had an upper respirator "thing" with those same lingering symptoms earlier this year. So did my 40-ish year old neighbor.

It started January 10 for me, I went to the Minute Clinic on February 10 only because friends were bugging me to go. No fever at all, lungs clear. She gave me a 7 day course of antibiotics in case it was bacterial, but I saw no improvement. It has very slowly faded away, and has morphed into seasonal allergies. Any aerobic exercise - even walking up a hill slowly - leaves me a little winded still. I feel like a sitting duck for COVID.

Omg, graywings! That is terrible but sounds eerily similar to what I'm experiencing. I'm so glad your symptoms eventually faded. Was there anything that gave you relief in the interim?

Yesterday I walked VERY slowly on the treadmill, just because I was so tired of not moving for the past week. I strolled for 30 minutes and was miserable afterward for several hours. It really made my breathing even worse, so now I am afraid of doing much of anything requiring movement.

A tip from a store in Denmark to stop hoarding. Too bad this wasn’t considered everywhere.

It's obviously a way to get people thinking, not an actual way to stop hoarding.

DH had pneumonia in late January/early February. I now wonder if he, @graywings123, and @IdaClaire were early cases. I watched Gov. Cuomo’s presser earlier today. He’s stumping for antibody testing to see who has had it.

IN re grocery shopping ... Some states have now banned reusable totebags. I get it but talk about whiplash.

bbstx, I didn't have pneumonia - my lungs were clear. I didn't have a fever. And as contagious as COVID is, I would have been a vector for my friends.

Considering that they've discovered novel viruses in polar ice caps that have been frozen for a gazillion years, I would assume freezing doesn't deter them. Maybe weaken, I've read. As the ice caps melt further, we could be in for more of these novel virus infections.

Is this what it takes to take climate change seriously?

I missed Cuomo today. I went for a walk before it got too busy.

I’ve been wondering about the antibody testing. I know several people who’ve had “something” in the last couple of months. Coughing that lasted longer than usual, fatigue some with fever, some without. It would be good to know too. Of course after the masks, gloves, tests, ventilators....

I hope after this is over, one day, those who can work from home will be encouraged to continue doing so. I hope we’ll be more conscious of our community health

People in my workplace have been coughing for months now too. But the medical professionals keep telling us no fever, no testing. My 80 year old FIL has a nasty cough but no temperature spike, so his doctor is treating him with antibiotics and OTC cold meds and has provided only a phone consultation, in spite of the fact that his age and heart condition put him in the high risk category.

This article describes the symptoms in detail. It also tells you when to get help. From reading reports from those who have it, the slightest exertion of energy is exhausting.

"If there's any shortness of breath immediately call your health care provider, a local urgent care or the emergency department," said American Medical Association president Dr. Patrice Harris.

"If the shortness of breath is severe enough, you should call 911," Harris added.

In addition to difficulty breathing or shortness of breath, the CDC lists emergency warning signs for Covid-19 as a "persistent pain or pressure in the chest," "bluish lips or face" -- which indicates a lack of oxygen -- and any sudden mental confusion or lethargy and inability to rouse.

Get medical attention immediately, the CDC says.

"Older patients and individuals who have underlying medical conditions or are immunocompromised should contact their physician early in the course of even mild illness," the CDC advises.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-symptoms-list-what-to-do-wellness/index.htm

Lot’s of good tips here. We never wear shoes in the house, so that’s a given, but we wipe surfaces down as we go and when we come home from the doctors or work (in my case) we immediately change and put those clothes in the laundry bin and I use a glove to load the washer. .We’re trying to keep some distance between us at home and we don’t share our food the way we used to either. My pantry is always over stocked, but we turned our freezer back on so I could stock up on meat and frozen foods. Outside of the fresh fruit and veggies, I probably have close to a months worth of food. My DD & SIL have agreed that anytime one of us has to make a store run we’ll check in with the other to see if they need something too. I drop off at their porch, they drop off at ours, no interaction which is hard. I’m also starting to utilize the shopping services offered now at most stores and I bought gloves for everyone in the family to use when outside.

We’ve never shared tooth paste but I wonder if families are now buying a separate tubes for each person in their houses.

IMO, price gougers should be fined and the City should gouge on the amount of the fines so they can see how it feels. My favorite story is the where one guy bought 18,000 bottles of sanitizer so he could price gouge on Amazon and Ebay. They won’t allow him to use their platform and now he’s stuck with them. :c)

IdaClaire, nothing helped me with my respiratory thing. I took Tylenol when I felt achy early on. Rest and time seem to be the answer. The doctor offered a prescription for a nebulizer, but I didn't take her up on it because I never felt short of breath because I wasn't moving around much.

Ugh. Definitely not fun!

This may be TMI and I don't know quite where to post it, but let's just say that I have become very cognizant of my toilet paper usage. Where I may once have unrolled a fairly decent swath after a tinkle, I will now count out two squares. I feel like I have to make it last as long as possible!

Heat kills the virus, e.g. nuking in the microwave for 60 seconds will kill any virus as does heating above 140 F, e.g. in an oven, dishwasher or clothes dryer

Now, that doesn't mean that drinking hot water or blowing air with a hairdryer up your sinuses kills the virus.

We probably all should be wearing stylish bandanas or scarves over our mouths when we interact with others outside the home. Not as effective as a mask, but significantly better than nothing!

Even if you feel fine, act as if YOU are infected and could infect and kill people you meet. Because you might be.

I have some slightly diluted bleach in a squirt bottle. Bleach and a rag are just fine for cleaning off suspect items from the grocery store and door knobs, and are washable and reusable. No need for wipes in the home (but they do make sense for the car).

And don't flush wipes or paper towels. Some sewer systems in the SF Bay area have been having issues and the suspected culprits are the extra wipes...

Then there is this guy named Culpepper in the orange shirt in this linked video who is telling people to buy a nano ozone vapor device, which apparently is used by hunters to mask their scent. He is the same guy who suggested blowing hot air from a hair dryer up your nose.

Twitter

graywings, I wouldn't pass that along...even if you understand it's hooey, it should be shown to as few people as possible.

Since we are into TMI, this is when it is nice to have a bidet toilet seat. You can buy one on Amazon, too! Many price ranges and there appear to be some that do not require an electrical outlet.

@graywings123, where is the ROFLMAO emoji when you need it!

Ida, I don't know, if you continue to have these symptoms with no relief, you should ask your physician again, about the test. My husband and I (to a lesser degree), were sick in February, with GI symptoms, then fever, cough, secondary pneumonia (in my husband's case). My symptoms were mild, my husband was sick as a dog. The doctor didn't want us at the office, she assumed that it was Influenza A (we had the shots), and prescribed Tamiflu for my husband, which didn't help at all. He still coughs alot. We are now wondering if we had COVID-19 , who would have known, there was no testing going on then.

Instead of a bidet seat you can go low tech with a portable bidet bottle.

In KY, there is a hotline type # if you think you need testing....does TX not have one?

No hotline in TX, just instruction to consult with one's primary care physician. Because I've not had a fever, I don't meet state criteria for priority testing. Here's what the CDC symptom checker says :

Are you taking your temp in the afternoon?

Daily. 98.5 at 4pm.

Interesting thread.

Ida, I had some coughing bug back in Nov/Dec for over a month. I coughed forever. No other symptoms really, other than being a little tired and less sleep. I moved upstairs for several weeks so DH would sleep better/not catch. Feel better soon.

Thanks, Allison. I'm glad your bug flew away!

Feeling any better, Ida? Not sure what county you're in, but I noticed there are new hotlines popping up in Texas.

Tests look like they are becoming more available. Are you sure you don't have a fever? ;)

Feel better, Ida.

Our little town is now under a mandatory Stay at Home order. Violating it is a misdemeanor. The mayor said it is a step below Shelter in Place. You can still go out for essentials (groceries, medicine, building supplies) but restaurants can only provide curbside pickup or delivery.

My governor said that everyone across the country is moving away from the "shelter in place" phrasing because it's not applicable in a pandemic. It's a term used for natural disasters. We need three months of stay at home orders, not fifteen days like Trump and Pence keep telling us. Fifteen days is for the health of the economy, not the health of the people.

IdaClaire are you taking musinex, it thins out the mucus. My dr. told me to take it daily in the event that you get the virus.

Still no fever. I have been religiously taking Mucinex. I do feel a little bit better. At least I don't feel quite the same heaviness in my chest and breathing is a little bit easier. Still congested though, so symptoms do remain, but all in all I think I can see a slight improvement. Hey, I'll take it.

Nosoccer, fascinating. Will we ever look at human interaction the same way again?

@nosoccermom, was that video made by your husband? Someone posted on one of these threads that her husband was making a video to show with a green light what happens when we speak.

I think if we could see all the germs that surround us and that we exchange with one another, we'd be freaking out.

Fori, you are so right about wearing a bandana or whatever in front of your mouth.

To update: Some good news or not, depending on what this will do to the way we look.

This video, by the same group, shows how a simple washcloth in front of the speaker's mouth basically contains pretty much all the droplets (> 99%) that are normally emitted when talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OSz5Gr7gG0&feature=youtu.be

The UK will soon be rolling out home kits to test for Covid antibodies. Why is the US so behind?!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/uk-coronavirus-mass-home-testing-to-be-made-available-within-days

The US is behind in a lot of things. Obviously, the economic impact is enormous in most countries. However, at least in Europe, people don't have to worry about paying for their healthcare, nor are they without pay when their employer closes during the pandemic.