Oh my.

The prices in my desired neighborhood are a bit crazy. While prices in general in my area have softened a bit and time-on-market has lengthened, the houses in that neighborhood with a view tend to sell in under a week and for a premium price. As you said, @caflowerluver, California prices make little sense to people who don't live here.

In an elite area I'm guessing 7-8 hundred thousand. It's hard since it has an inground pool. Swimming season is short and most would rather go to the country club to swim where they can try as they say "network".

In my township probably around 5-6 . Again the pool. Most that have pools are above ground . They are easier to get rid of when your tired of the maintenance and cost for only 3 months of swimming season.

Aptos real estate is high right now . A little starter home, under 1800 square feet in a normal subdivision plot without land starts at 899,000 or so and that would be a fixer upper for most. Your neighbor's price is pretty much in line with real estate today. DS just bought a home in the area last year. He commutes to the East Bay. Not a big deal for most working Californians these days. Fortunately he can often adjust his schedule to avoid the heavy rush hours and he does a lot of telecommuting when he is flying off elsewhere for his job. Most people living in the mountains commute to the the valley or further to work. It is what it is.

My location: A county adjacent to Milwaukee Co, WI. Housing prices vary widely here. Existing houses vary from 1400 to 2500 sq ft and priced from $90,00 to $230,000. Most new houses being built are 2 story up to 5000 sq ft and priced from $300,000 to $600,000 (or more) on 3/4 acre lots. That's with sewer, water, gas, and electrical power. Without municipal sewer and water, lot size will be a minimum of 1 acre in a few locations with most being 2 acres minimum and the lot price is higher than a city lot. A new subdivision lot outside a city can be $140,000 owing to its larger size required for a septic tank and effluent bed. Large lots within a city can also be $140,000.

The average commute time is 20 to 30 minutes during optimal conditions. A snow storm can add 20 more minutes assuming you get to your destination without getting stuck or hit.

Our area has lots of houses for sale and our prices are depressed and still falling. A house up the way, big and lovely, well decorated and well maintained on 3 acres backing up to open space on a cul de sac that used to sell for $1.2 m has been on the market for years now and is down to $675k and still no takers. Another neighbor finally sold last summer after 4 years of trying. We've had a few of them go in auction/foreclosure which was absolutely unheard of in our area. And I've seen a number of spots where they started doing something to some land and then just quit...both residentially and commercially.

You can buy a home for a steal here! There are new homes that are around 600,000 for a big huge house. The older, smaller homes are around $50,000 in a nice quiet neighborhood. If anyone could stand the cold weather in the winters, this is a very cheap area to live! NE Ohio that is...

I've lived in my town for five years now, and off the top of my head, I can't think of any homes priced at $1M or above ... excepting actual farms outside town, that is. Typical prices range from $125K for a modest house in not so great neighborhood, to maybe as much as $450K for a big new house in a big new neighborhood. Many many perfectly nice homes in between those price points. Commuting time negligible, compared to ya'll in the big cities. I love it here.

Houses in my neighborhood average $750 per sq foot, which makes it the most affordable beach neighborhood in the city of Los Angeles. The one in Aptos is listed at $576 per sq ft, which makes the price seem very reasonable.

In Cathedral City, the price is 1/3 of what it is for our house in L.A.

SW PA Our housing market never went through the booms and busts as some parts of the country over the years. Unless you trash your home, your home will increase year to year. Not drastically, but it will increase. Slow and steady wins the race.

Renters are usually senior citizens , young couples, temporary transplants or divorcees.

Average commute time is 25 minutes.

It's definitely a seller's market in our area right now and has been for about a year. If you are selling, you need to be prepared and have a place to move to if staying in the area. A month ago there were less than 1000 homes on the market, which is the lowest in over 40 years when the population was much less than it is now. We are the fastest growing city in our state and a highly desirable place to live and work right now. Home prices have increased but still remain affordable as compared to the most of the rest of the country.

I'm not sure how this thread devolved as it doesn't make complete sense when I read it. I think this site is Elmer's entertainment for the day. :)

In my area of CA, starter homes built in the 60/70's, 3 bedrooms, 1800sq, start around $850,000. Newer homes start at 1.2 mil. A two bedroom condo 1000 sq. is $600,000. When we moved here 26 years ago the prices were less then half. It's ridiculous here in CA.

I don't really understand how anyone can afford to buy a home that is a million dollars or close to it. Jobs just don't pay like that around here. A person would be lucky to have a $50,000 a year job in this area, most jobs being under the $30,000 a year mark...with a college degree!

Jobs in these areas typically pay more for that exact reason. It would be difficult to survive on 50k a year in many areas of CA. Even rent is $2k a month for a one bedroom.

Northern California is much more rural than the southern/middle parts of the state and housing prices more in line with what many posters from other states are reporting. Anything near water is going to be higher regardless of what part of the state it is in. A family can survive and thrive on 50k up north.

I bring this up because I think many people who are not familiar with California, don't realize how vast the state is and how different property values and incomes are between the northern and southern parts of the state. I do not include the Bay Area when I am talking about N. Cal.

I live on an island that is a bedroom community for Seattle. Property values here are high and the median sales price is pushing $900K. Some of it is waterfront (both high bank and low bank) and that will push the prices higher, as does the size of the lot, which can vary widely. Views factor in as well. Million dollar plus homes are not uncommon at all.

It is a pretty hot market with prices escalating close to 3% annually. Most homes do not stay on the market very long......more than a week is unusual.

There is a lot of income around here as well - cash purchases (no financing) are also pretty common.

Whatever the worth of houses here, we're still in a sellers' market. It was when I bought in 2015, and it still is! We have been cleaning out Mom's condo and been approached by three neighbors saying they have someone lined up. The most persistent is the property directly behind my Mom's, her daughter really wants it. They want to move close so they can take care of her. She's a nurse. It's basically sold once we talk to the realtor and find out a strategy.

As to prices? We bought a house in 2007 for $170,000. Tiny house. 874 square feet. It's valued at $333,795 on Zillow today. It's still skyrocketing.

We bought our home (in Toronto) in '83, for just over 100K. We still live in the same house, but now the similar homes on our street go for about 1.4M, which is ridiculous, for under 2,000sqft, and a small lot. But 'downsizing' to a slightly smaller condo here isn't much cheaper, if it's modernized and nicely appointed. I love our city, but am always envious of what amazing homes one can get in some areas of the U.S., for the same price.

I think buying a home around here is....reasonable. We bought this house for 165k,five years ago. It's a 3 bedroom,3 full bath, 1978 square foot home and came on 2 acres. Built in 87. We have steadily been buying up the surrounding acreage because it annoys both of us to see land that is not being used and is not ours. My one neighbor has been very stubborn in not selling us the half acre or so that borders our front yard. So annoying. Anyway, We live in a more rural area now. Our other home is a 3 bedroom,1 bath, 1250 square foot home in a very convenient part of the city and it will sell for around 90k, just because it is only 1 bath and rather small. My coworker rented a 1 bedroom apartment less than 1 mile away from that house and her rent was twice that of the mortgage payment on that house. I think rents around here are highway robbery. She and her husband recently bought a VERY pretty home. Much newer than mine. 3 bd,2 bath, 1700 square feet with a guarantee that there will be no development of the woods behind the home and a nice yard for 150k. (How they got thay guarentee, I don't know. I would never trust something like that)

I admit me and SO sometimes get sticker shock when we watch something like House Hunters and see the absolutely ridiculous (to us) prices people are expected to pay for the tiniest, rinky-dink, run down heaps in other parts of the country. And they don't seem shocked at all! Supply and demand I guess.

Location, supply and demand.

Our last house, a 1936 California bungalow barely 1296 SF, in San Jose, CA close to downtown and major highways, is worth $1,066,172. We sold it in 1986 for $155,000. People are leaving CA in droves because they can't afford to buy a home even with 2 professional jobs.

The significant rise in housing prices has created a gulf between haves and have-nots among those in my kids' generation. 30-something adults often can't buy a home without help from older relatives. Many areas are too expensive for people in lower paid, so-called "middle class" occupations. Like school teachers. In high cost areas, it's led to a lot of renters and people who have to deal with long commutes to find affordable housing.

But this isn't a phenomenon restricted to urban California. There are many other places around the US where urban regions are booming and desirable housing is expensive - Portland and Seattle areas on the West Coast, cities in the Boston-> Washington DC corridor on the East Coast, and elsewhere. Similar stories.

This Nov 2019 Sacramento Bee article suggests the net outflow from California peaked over 10 years ago (though it may be coming back). And says " that people leaving California tended to be relatively poor, and many lacked college degrees. Higher up the income spectrum, slightly more people were coming than going."

Sac Bee article on ins/outs of California migration

I think we live in Goldilocks Land. We moved here almost 4 years ago from rural Monterey County, but not bad commute to the San Jose area. My son and his family have lived in this township for 25 years. It's right on the border of a very expensive part of Philadelphia, in Montgomery County (near the Arboretum.) There are no major commercial office parks or shopping centers beyond the strip on Bethlehem Pike that serves just this community. Very little thru traffic. Kids play in the street. Very good school district. Under 20,000 residents.

What I, as a Californian, find fascinating is that most of the people we get to know have been here most of their lives. Plumbers live next to doctors, Our attorney lives three blocks from his parents who still live in the house he grew up in. There is amazing pride-of ownership, and a very high owner-occupied rate. Many of our neighbors commute into the city, there are at least 4 train stations very close, two or three more just a few blocks more, all with good parking. There is very little turn-over in housing (three of the 4 newest neighbors moved in when the old owner died.)

There are areas of 40's post-war 3 bedroom, two story, 1100 Sq ft homes (under $300k, usually); some areas of 50's MCM flat roofed homes (really cute), about the same price; a few square blocks of traditional rowhouses, more likely 100 yrs old, up to 250k; traditional Colonials, built late 60's, $400-450K, and some up to $550-$600K; multi-million dollar estate homes; large houses dating to the 1880's or so, even older; a good-sized townhouse/condo development, all two story and 3/2+, under $300k. There are a few 4-plex apartments in the older areas, not a lot, but well maintained.

What I, as a Californian, find fascinating is that most of the people we get to know have been here most of their lives.
sushipup, we encountered the same thing 35 years ago, moving from NYC to the western suburbs of Philadelphia; so many of our neighbors' families had been in this area for generations. And now I see why, as it's absolutely beautiful here, and easy to get to NYC or DC (not to mention that Philadelphia has become a really fun and vibrant city).

This home near me in northeast Michigan is for sale for $239,000, but will probably sell for under $200,000.Cedar Lake home

It's got 80 feet of lake frontage and a creek on the north side of it.

Not only the price, but the sizes in CA. This is just from watching that divorced couple that is on HTV. So I could be off base. But I was watching one that they bought a 1500 sq ft house . 4 bedroom 2 bath and they thought it was spacious. I can't even figure out how you could even fit four bedrooms and two baths in 1500 sq ft let alone call it spacious. Or there is a backyard that is maybe 40 ft deep and it is considered large.

function, I know...1500 sf and 4 bdrms is pretty darn tight! Our house is 2300 sf with 3 bdrms and I can't imagine a fourth. It's plenty of room for just the two of us.

I live on the Eastern part of Long Island. Next to the "Hamptons" , THE place to be. Multi million dollar sales are the norm, if you have waterfront 15 to 20 million is standard. Transactions are in the newspapers. $500,000 is a starter home for young families. There are very few homes for less , a 3/4 acre lot is 250,000 in a new development . There is a 2% tax on all sales over 500,000 that goes to a preservation fund. That money buys larger desireable parcels so they cannot be developed. Much of the new million dollar builds are seasonal. So the school systems are not struggling to handle more children. But the real estate taxes help pay the budgets , a plus.

A unique place to live, I was born here and bought in 1969. Before the huge developement. The capital gains would be a real deal killer. We are leaving it to our son.

As a Californian, who loves living here the prices make sense because pricing is based on demand. The pricing tells me many people love it here and are willing to pay the price. Of course, I know its not for everyone and some simply cannot afford the lifestyle.

DD and her husband are house hunting for a starter home in Madison WI. She was born in Madison, and dang I wish we had kept the duplex we lived in and owned when we lived there 30 years ago. I cannot believe the prices charged for a 1000 SF home. One that she really likes (a block away from the school she works at) just went on the market for 235,000.00. They made a full price offer, and the homeowner said we are reviewing all offers on Monday. What is happening is that people are getting into bidding wars for these starter homes. It blows my mind. I can't believe the bad houses on Zillow and Realtor for over 200,000.00 We bought our 4000 SF house on 6 acres for 240,000 in 1996, a big beautiful home just 5 minutes from the town we live in. I don't know how this generation can afford to live in certain areas. Especially on a teacher's salary

I'm afraid an 1800 square ft home being referred to as a small starter home makes me wonder how big a medium sized starter home would be. Yikes my first home was under 1,000 sq ft and I raise two boys in it until they were in their early teens.

Function notes: 4 bedroom 2 bath and they thought it was spacious. I can't even figure out how you could even fit four bedrooms and two baths in 1500 sq ft let alone call it spacious. Or there is a backyard that is maybe 40 ft deep and it is considered large.

---

Yes. Very true. Our homes tend to be rather cramped here in CA. Our parcel is considered very large at 50ft wide, 120ft deep. Currently 1800 sq ft. (considered a large house) Our house was built to span the width instead of the depth, which is unusual for the neighborhood. This gives us a spacious back yard since the house is set closer to the street than I am used to. Original footprint of the house is that of a rectangle. We've added out and up, so an odd rectangle presently. Spacious is relative of course.

The house next door is up for sale. 850ish sq ft. 2br 1ba. $410,900 which is a bargain by CA standards. No back yard. Only a small side yard because that house was set length ways instead of width, to the middle of the parcel. No privacy fence allowed due to being on a corner. Only a 3ft high fence is allowed, so no real safe place to let children spill out to play. It makes me sad that this is what my young adult children face. The rents are crazy expensive if you can't afford to buy.

Basically, we couldn't afford to buy our own house in current times.

Cramped in California can be so true! Decent size homes are squished into small lots almost on top of each other. Half the house fronts are a garage and driveway. The home we bought was built in the 50's here in SoCal. At that time they used larger lots and left as many old oak trees as possible. That would never happen here today.

sea sea, Thank you. I didn't know if it was true or just TV hype.

Here's the thing - everyone has a home town. Across the country, they're more different than similar. Over time, most people are able to live where they prefer. I know, not always. But often.

The familiar expression - nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. Many of you are widely traveled in the US and feel that way about a lot of places you've visited. I feel that way about every place outside of my home state I've seen (in nearly 40 states) and most places in my home state too. Most of you do too, yet all of those disliked places are home for many people and are where people have chosen to live.

Where you live comes from many factors - where you can work, where you're familiar, maybe where some family is, maybe the weather, what you can afford, and on and on.

Homes are too expensive in California's booming coastal urban areas. You don't get much for your money. Houses can be small, lots too. There's too much traffic. Like many other places.Go inland, it's a lot cheaper. But who wants to live in those places if you can afford not to.

I like the coastal urban areas fine, I'd never consider living elsewhere and I scratch my head why many of you live where you do because I never would. Many of you feel exactly the same about where I and and others active on this forum live. All of our opinions are correct because we're choosing for ourselves, not for others. That's how it is, preferences vary and so do choices.

What are prices like where I live? Stupid.

Because of low interest rates many two-working couples can afford the mortgage payments which in most cases would be less than the rent that they are paying (yea, rents are stupid too) but what they can't save for is the downpayment required for the expensive housing market.

My son and his fiance just bought a "starter" home in my community (at the time it was the second cheapest SF listing) for $1.3M. How did they do it? It has a basement suite that they rent out, both parents helped with downpayment (we are being paid back, I don;t know about her parents) and the grandparents give her an early inheritance.

They lived in very small condo (650sq ft) which they owned and they have kept and rent out for $2500/month and that helps with the mortgage.

The problem for us seniors is that there is not enough difference between what we would get for our house and what a downsize condo or townhouse would cost, especially when you add in the costs associated with moving. We wouldn't pocket enough and in a rising market why would we sell. But of course, that leads to a smaller supply of SF housing.

@blfenton, While I agree that the difference in cost/price for a smaller home and my current home seems to not be proportionate, I consider that the smaller home will have lower operating costs, so it still makes sense to me to try to downsize.

I've looked at new condos in two different cities, closer to my work and I can't afford them. I will probably die in this house.

If downsizing to a condo - yes property taxes will be cheaper but we can defer them once we reach 65 and they only come due when we sell. Offsetting lower property taxes though is strata fees which are climbing higher and higher to help pay for rising insurance costs on the strata buildings.

ETA - Most condos and townhouses are electric baseboard heat which is more expensive than forced air where I live.

Note for my fellow Americans - I didn't understand the terms strata fees and strata buildings so I looked them up. Perhaps with some legal differences but these are apparently terms used in Canada that are equivalent to homeowners association fees and condominium ownership structures.

Yes, Elmer J Fudd - Strata fees are the monthly maintenance fees that are charged when living in a townhouse or condo project and the form of ownership is a strata ownership.

@blfenton, I wish we could defer property taxes. Because of the high cost of housing where I live, property taxes are a substantial outlay annually.

I was thinking of this thread while reading an article in today's Chicago Tribune Business section. It's an AP story by Alex Veiga, if you want to look for it. (Retarded computer skills here.)

Mortgage rates are low now. Unemployment is low, but salaries are also low. Young people are having trouble saving for downpayments. A growing factor is the undersupply of *affordable* homes.

Home prices have doubled the pace of wages.

All real estate is *local* (has to do with a lot of different factors across this huge nation), but the story says the median US home sold for $274,500 in December 2019. Worse, there is a record-low (three months) supply of SFHs. Smallest supply is homes $200,000 and under; that inventory declined 19% last month and is expected to dwindle.

In my town you can buy a big house (5000 sq ft and up -- quality, not McMansion) for half of what it cost before the Trump administration's tax law changes, cutting tax deductions on mortgage interest and RE tax. There are ten such homes on the market along the length of my street (8/10 of a mile). Some have been following the market down for three years.

I worry how our RE-tax-dependent town services can meet the challenge of decreased revenue as assessments adjust downward. Tax rates are limited.

This is the kind of situation that can quickly come to crisis for the nation.

I said I didn't know any $1M houses in my town, but they made a liar out of me! There's a big house, not my style, but on a hill with a fantastic view, on the edge of town. On the market this week for almost $3M. Oh, if only it had been for sale five years ago when we were looking (lol, not!)

You've said:

" All real estate is *local* "

but also

" This is the kind of situation that can quickly come to crisis for the nation. "

I don't know, chisue, I think I found the article and I read it a bit differently. Isn't he saying home sales will be down for a variety of factors, including rising prices and reduced inventory?

I agree with it being local, but more is involved too. Prices continue to increase in my area. Supply is reduced, which also increase prices, because people aren't moving. Wages are up, not down, for much of the segment that can afford to buy houses. Nationwide, real estate values in job commutable areas with growing economies and/or demand for housing will continue to increase. As before, there are numerous areas where jobs have left, or where demand is low (as in much of the non-suburban areas all over the country) and prices there won't rise to the same extent at all and may fall.

It's part of the situation concerning haves and have-nots in our country, no question.

This might be the article you were referring to:

Article by Alex Viega

Elmer -- Ah, but see what you just said -- 'a segment that can afford to buy houses'? That's what I mean...

Are big homes with big RE taxes not lingering in your market? They are here on the north shore of Chicago. (Granted, my whole state has *problems*!)

Yes, chisue. Look up thread a bit, I did mention haves and have nots and the generation of my kids needing help. It's not new in my area, it's the result of decades of appreciation and runaway income and gains fueling net worth increases for those in and supporting the tech sector in the SF Bay Area. The same is true (with different industries) in coastal SoCal. And I think ditto in other metro areas nationwide.

"Are big homes with big RE taxes not lingering in your market?"

No, I don't think so. But real estate taxes work a bit differently here than in other places. California's Prop 13 in 1978 limited total tax to 1% of value and capped upward annual value increases to the lesser of an inflation factor or 2 percent per year. Appreciation since then has been significantly greater so longer term owners pay less in tax than more recent buyers living next door in the same house, where that's applicable neighborhood wise. We've owned our house over 25 years. Houses can be reassessed to market value only when sold, so a new owner of my house would pay 3 times as much property tax as I pay. That's true statewide.

Here's information, stats from the Santa Clara County realtor board. They're misleading because the community is polarized with more average houses and more expensive houses and not so much in between. That shows in the difference between median and average prices, average being $300K higher. Prices are up overall 3% in the past year, but more so for more expensive houses and less for less expensive ones. Inventory is at 40 days (average time on market), much lower than even 12 months ago, The chart shows days of inventory is down a fair amount, sales are down too (fewer houses being offered for sale).

Real estate market stats

Update on Mom's? Full asking price + within twelve hours of listing. This is a crazy market here. $177 per square foot at the low end.