Grizzman, I don't think I am overthinking it. I think you are thinking this problem through with a regular 5 gallon bucket in mind. A regular 5 gallon bucket for paint is highly unlikely to collapse like tbaleno's is collapsing under the described circumstances. Instead, it would cause a vacuum and not let the water out. I've not seen Home Depot's buckets, but Menard's (another big box store) buckets are practically translucent because they are so thin. I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturer for both companies is the same. With flimsy enough walls, the walls will collapse before air entering the tube moves far enough. Once the walls are collapsed the pressure is stabilized as the air in the bucket is compressed. Unless the air coming in the tube is forced air (unlikely), then it won't make it up the tube if the bucket has begun collapsing. At least not enough to stop further collapse the next watering. As the collapse starts it will put positive pressure on the tube and not allow air to enter from there. You are absolutely right that a larger tube will speed up stabilization, but it first speeds up destabilization. It is then just a matter of whether the bucket walls can withstand the initial destabilization or not. Just judging from what was originally written, that the bucket is collapsing already, the walls are very thin and I have those Menard's buckets in mind. Maybe I'm incorrect and tbaleno has thicker buckets than Menards provides. Another thing that could be contributing to the collapse is the length of the tube. If it is too long AND the wall of the bucket is too thin, then that will also cause collapse before air can travel up the tube. Personally, I would be inclined to go with both, a sturdier bucket and a wider diameter tube.

I really don't understand how anyone can buy a rug online. I have to at least see it in person to know if the colors are right. Monitors and the lighting when the pic is taken vary so greatly. Heck I've brought so many rugs home over the years. I want to be sure that what I've chosen is going to compliment the entire area around where it is being used. How do you do that with an online rug? However, I have seen a good amount of dissatisfied posters who've received a rug that was not as represented by Overstock or another seller. Who picks up the return cost? As far as the posters who are poo pooing buying a good quality rug (travel to Turkey, etc) and then link to JC Penney rugs, what a hoot. Obviously the OP has something a little different in mind with her stated budget. Also, I get a kick out of people professing to travel to a place where they would be in the total minority and have no idea of where to go and how to haggle with the rug sellers, let alone figure out the exchange rate. Have you ever been to Turkey? Really.

I'm just talking out loud - maybe some stuff applies and maybe it doesn't. I'm looking at the 42" aisles - they are less than the recommended minimum of 48" for a multi-cook kitchen. Some people are sensitive to stuff like that and some aren't. But I think about what cooking with each other AND the swarm in the aisles would be like ... People take the shortest route all the time - its not necessarily the same as the route that would make you happiest. So, there is a certain pile-up of stuff that clogs the route to other stuff - again a little uncertain of "The Way of The Swarm". BUT the ref and the drinks ref create a pile-up on the dining room side, clogging that aisle. The same clog might explode through the work area if DW doors are open and get in the way of table setting operations. People setting the table would need to be under extreme duress (aka, parental intimidation) to walk the dishes around the outside edge of the island instead of cutting through the work zone to the informal dining. It makes for a challenge. I'd be tempted to go more like the below (just an idea). It sorta shows two island shapes, one dotted, one solid - and it certainly would need more thought. So - instead of butler's pantry, I'm thinking scullery. Dish storage can be in wall cabinets above the sink and in one section of the pantry if you've got a lot. The ref moves back out into the perimeter and becomes twins with a nice fat aisle in front - complete with micro for reheating leftovers or melting sandwiches. It has 3 decent work areas plus a 4th in the scullery. It does not solve the cut through traffic to the informal dining, but takes away some of the strain in the aisle. The scullery can be devoted to a bar without impacting the main kitchen. The pantry area can certainly be enclosed and either look like this or push the doorway back over almost to the dining room wall and have one wall of regular cabinets and one wall of 12" deep shelves. It might help start some other thoughts. I'd also try an "L" shape with the leg on the dining side (runs away)

there is a plant propogation book i have wherein the author describes his own mist system. that author has a large black coil of hose in the roof of his greenhouse so that water can be heated before reaching the mist nozzles. that's at least one vote for using warm water and keeping the cuttings reasonably warm as they root. just thought i would toss that in! lol. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mosaic z8 LA (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 11:59 With such a setup you could probably root roses under mist all winter here in Louisiana. And then as an added bonus, you could save on your power bills all summer by using it to steam your veggies :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: tammyinwv z6/WV (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:05 i have been unable to find the mist heads even within an hr from my home.Someone mentioned here they found them for .50 each.would anyone be willing to get me a couple and mail them? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: wild_garden virginia z6b (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 03 at 16:32 at my lowes store the mist heads where in the indoor gardening area next to the register, i doubt the people at lowes would have even know what to look for. it was with the drip irrigation supplies, as i said in the indoor gardening area next to the big outdoor area where they sell trees and things. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mist heads supply source Posted by: RoseHawke 7b AL (My Page) on Mon, May 12, 03 at 10:37 For you folks that haven't been able to find the heads locally, try going to this site: Dripworks or here's a direct link to one of the pages with some heads:Misters . I just a couple of weeks ago ordered some irrigation supplies from them and received them quite quickly. About 4 days if I remember correctly. Haven't had a chance to put it together yet, which is probably just as well as the flood we had last week would've probably washed everything down the creek ;-). I also have the Melnor timer, and it does seem a bit confusing about its ability to do a mist cycle, but what you're doing is programing it to do one cycle (on in the am; off in the pm) and punching in a choice of watering pattern, in this case the off for 10" on for 2" pattern. I believe the idea behind the pattern was/is actually to help prevent water run-off when doing overhead watering by allowing the water to soak in between the on phases. I bought this particular timer though because when I looked at it my mind said "Ah! Mist!" (heh), even though the reason I bought it at the time was to keep a new patch of zoysia sod watered until it rooted in. My batteries did last all season last year, but it was only opening that valve 4x a day for 3 weeks, and then 1x every 4 days for a couple of months. I can see where a misting pattern of opening and closing that valve many times during the day may eat batteries, but as ShamanSherpa pointed out, it's still cheaper than a $100+ misting timer! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: patclem z7 (or 6) TN (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 03 at 8:32 Regardless of how much water it wastes, etc, I decided to experiment with misting. I am TERRIBLE at rooting cuttings. I've tried baggies. I've tried jars. I've tried special cutting trays with plastic domes. I've had one rooted cutting out of probably 50. I had the same problem finding true super-fine mist systems in the south. None at Lowe's, none at HD. They're not popular here because they don't have the same evaporating effect they have in less humid areas of the country - they make you wet here. Here's where I found mist heads. They didn't charge me anything for shipping. They were super-good to deal with online. Web Page - Phone/Fax 888-693-0578 Local/Fax (719) 495-2266 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W401; Product: Monarch Misting Nozzles M-1; Amount: $7.40 Qty: 4; Sku: 6W519; Product: Reducing Tee for Monarch Misting Nozzles; Amount: $4.40 You have to go to Lowe's or local hardware store and get a hose adapter, timers, 1/2" PVC, PVC caps, etc. I have mine set up with 2 mist heads, and about a 6' diameter section of my grass is soaked! I don't have mine on a timer yet. Results? I don't have any yet, except none of my cuttings have turned black yet. PS - I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH THIS BUSINESS IN ANY WAY! Here is a link that might be useful: Mist Heads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: fuselighter 7/WA (My Page) on Thu, May 29, 03 at 21:41 I am so excited about the misting bed. I went out and bought all the supplies today. Total cost was about $15 (my husband had PVC and elbows left over from installing the sprinkler system). I would like to go to an intermittent system eventually, but for now I am going with continuous. The water bill is not an issue because we have an irrigation system (there is an annual fee but it is not based on usage). I set the whole thing up in about an hour. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: debbinard Z4CO (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 10:54 Shamansherpa -- I could not open your picture! I live in Colorado, it gets very warm middle of June (up to upper 90's) and stays low humidity. We are on outsidewater restrictions 2xweek, so I'm not sure this method would fly. Am wondering how visible this is, or if inside is an option under lights. At any rate, I would like to propigate some rose cuttings now (is this a good time?) My daughter in law is moving and would love some plants from a rose with sentimental value. Is the rooting hormone used just the usual or special for roses? Thanks Deb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 13:48 Deb, Maybe you could call your water extention office and see if you can get special permission, exsplain to them how little water it uses. Yes you use rooting hormone, there are many available. Dip and grow I here is supposed to be really good. I got some of the more exspensive stuff from a friend whom bought it threw rose imporium on line. But you can always use something like dip and grow. Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: rose_enthusiast z7 TX. (My Page) on Sun, Jun 1, 03 at 15:47 Hi there Deanna! It seems to me you've managed to help a lot of people with your invaluable info. And I would like to thank you for inspiring me to start a misting bed to root my cuttings. I have one question to add to the many others you've been getting though... What rose company is it that you get your rooting hormone from? Is it Rose Emporium or the Antique Rose Emporium? I would like to purchase this product as well, since you and this company are using this to successfully root your cuttings. Thanks Again, Carlos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mytrid Zone8b Florida (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 1:31 Carlos, Thank you but we should all thank AngieAnders, she is the one who did all the research and work to discover this method and then post it here for us last year! She truly diserves all the credit. I just wanted to keep any new people aware that have just started rooting this year. Best of luck all and don't forget to post your sucess! Deanna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: epiphany z5b PA (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 03 at 9:28 I found the Arizona Mist system which is by Orbit as mentioned at Wal-Mart. It has 12' of tubing, end cap, six misting heads and hose adapter for $14.95. Of course, it is once again cold and wet here,......all of a balmy 56°. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: auntnana 6 TN (My Page) on Thu, Jun 5, 03 at 13:06 I ordered the misting heads mentioned above from Dripworks last year and they don't put out a fine mist as much as they do a fine spray/droplets. And even though I had a pressure regulator on there, I kept having a problem with the heads blowing off! (Their drippers work perfectly by the way so it's nothing against the company) I ordered foggers from Misty Mate this year and they put out a super fine fog. Perfect for propagation. They are a litte more expensive than the ones from Dripworks but worth it. And if you ask they will ship the misting heads for $1.50. I went to HD and bought a 10-24 tap and drill set (3.00) and drilled holes in my 1/2" cvpvc and the heads just screwed right in! I bought a Melnor timer at HD for $39 and it has 1 minute spray options so I've got it set for 1 minute every 10 minutes. Can't remember the model number but it's not the one on the HD website. I hope to finish my new propagation box soon. I built one on a stand this year so I can move it around easily. Wouldn't you know, HD has plastic sheeting made just for greenhouses that I used! It's not the real thick heavy stuff either. It's only 4mil and is crystal clear see-thru! Hopefully I'll be finished this week!