Oh, forgot there is one English rose that just couldn't take it here, but it's not an Austin. Rhapsody in Blue, pretty thing from Cowlishaw, doesn't like temps over 80˚F, so they're gone.

Meilland roses are some of my favorites, especially for beauty of bloom. I’m trying to figure out which ones will do good here, I do want more of them in my collection.

A lot of the Kordes roses do really well for me, that’s why I have several different ones, but I’ve had failures too, just like with every breeder.. Personally, I think a disease free rose bush, with green, healthy foliage and lots of blooms looks pretty darn good! It just so happens for me that scenario is repeated more with Kordes than any other breeder.

I love most of the Carruth Roses, but have somewhat mixed results with them, so many gorgeous ones though. Grande Dame has been doing pretty good, I really like Neil Diamond and Memorial Day and Neptune are gorgeous, I love Julia Child, but mine has struggled at times. Twilight Zone is gorgeous, but doesn’t bloom that much. Moonstone has been kind of wimpy, but it’s gorgeous! They are disease resistant, but most of them don’t have the vigor of Kordes roses. There does seem to be an emphasis on fragrance, that’s a good thing.

This is the rose I have that I think is Maria Callas and I think it would be a Meilland and it is the most amazing rose ever. Anyone who created this rose is a genius. It never stops blooming and its it's just amazing in every way.

I don't have the first rose from the house of Meilland in my garden. I guess it boils down to what you really like to grow. Don't get me wrong, I'm EXTREMELY picky about what takes up space in my garden. I grow just about every type of rose. 90% of my HT's are from American breeders. My floribunda's are Kords and Interplant. 9 Austin's'. A hand full of American bred mini's and miniflora's. A good hand full of OGR's from all over Europe and other parts of the world. Just nothing from Meilland.

Pippacovalent, that’s definitely the rose it appears to be. I had two of them that bloomed wonderfully for several years, love that rose!

That's good to hear Sara Ann...I'm considering getting another one because the one that came with my house isn't in a great spot but it's so old and been there so long I don't dare try to move it. I have been thinking of getting one to put in a more prime location and I have been hoping that it's really the rose I think it is. I love it soooooo much.

While we're discussing roses by breeder, would anyone care to offer comment on Harkness roses? I have been looking at "Pride of England" for some time and some people in long-past threads loved it, but therey was at least one comment that Harkness roses tended to not be very hardy. Comments on Harkness roses?

What an interesting thread...and hello folks. I've been MIA for a few months. But I came on to see if there was a post on new varieties coming out for bare root season 2020, and fell into this thread. I have some Meilland loves -- Love's Promise and Marmalade Skies. Love's Promise is gorgeous red, gorgeous fragrance. Marmalade Skies not so scented, but growing it for my husband who loves the vivid, bright color. New Meilland for me this year: Dee-Lish (really smells amazing -- hasn't been a star repeat bloomer, but it's new and in an awkward spot); and Yves Piaget (on recommendation from CoriAnn). Yves is a stunner in bloom. Fragrance is to die for. Not a super re-bloomer yet. Cherry Parfait was wild and weedy for me. Love the color, but no fragrance and kind of an ugly plant, so that had to go. Girls Night Out didn't re-bloom a lot, so gave to a friend. As for Kordes, I'm on my 2nd Dark Desire. And jst when I was going to give up...whoa Nelly. I think I may even want another Dark Desire. Gorgeous, long-lasting, super fragrant bloom. But -- my Madam Anisette was on Year 3 and I got 3 blooms. So...I think she has to go bye-bye. As for Austins -- I hear the criticisms...but...my Poet's Wife, Carding Mill, Munstead Wood...constantly blooming and so so so so pretty. I mean heartbreakingly lovely. My Thomas a Beckett, James L. Austin, Desdemona - still in their first year and we've had weird/odd/horrid weather for roses -- but even so, they've given some nice blooms. I love Queen of Sweden when she blooms, but she takes her time about it. That's frustrating. Oh - Boscobel keeps on blooming and is fragrant. A rising star? I bought a 4" own root Golden Celebration and planted it last December. It is now blooming like mad, even though the bush is still small, and the flowers last! I didn't plant it in the best spot b/c I wasn't sure I loved the golden color, but now I'm re-thinking that choice. I get reliable rose bloom from Bedard's White Licorice (nothing white about it - it's yellow). My favorite roses in the garden, however, are Buck's Distant Drums. They are just spectacular. Love love love them. The prettiest blooms right now are from Carruth -- Love Song. No fragrance, but such big, pretty flowers that last and look amazing in the garden or in the vase.

As for Harkness -- I have one that I love -- it's a pink climber I got from Jackson & Perkins nearly 20 years ago, High Hopes. Disease Free, constant bloom, pretty flowers. Not too fragrant. The other Harkness roses I got from the earlier incarnation of Heirloom Roses all died. So I'm not planning to buy any more Harkness.

No one's mentioned Warriner or Zary...thoughts?

Welcome back, Deborah.

I grew Heirloom and French Lace, both bred by Warriner in z9/10. Both lovely. I would like to grow Heirloom again. It's interesting that his very popular Medallion, bred way back in the 70s, is a color so sought after today.

I would grow Dr. Zary's English Perfume in a heartbeat if it wasn't too tender for my climate. Why is his Lavender Lace so hard to find? I want that one, too.

Deborah, my White Licorice was new this year so I was hoping the yellow was something it would outgrow.

Looks like I have some moving to do.

Oh well I guess that means I get to find another fragrant white rose!

Any Meillands I should look at, guys?

My white licorice is a pale yellow, but def yellow. It’s pretty. It I had to move a red that was next to it. Didn’t like that combo at all!

oursteelers, no Meilland (except Bolero), but if you like WL, take a look at Weeks' Sugar Moon. I consider both to be exceptionally fragrant.

And, one I mentioned up thread that I have always loved is French Lace.

Here it today...this probably Maria Callas/miss aab is my favorite Meilland rose I don't get why it isn't popular any more.

Moses those are some fighting words!
How can one pick one house over another?

I love so many roses for so many reasons. I'm a big fan of Austins in general. But I also like offerings from Meilland as well as Kordes and other growers. I live in a cooler climate so hardiness is a big factor. Many ht roses just can't thrive after our winters. Whereas, I have Austin's that reach 5-6 feet in one season, even with complete dieback. I find I also have more continuous rebloom on the Austin roses. Whereas, two of the romanticas Traviata & Abbaye de Cluny have distinct flushes with beautiful blooms. But they take a long rest in between. In my short season I want colourful blooms consistently. I actually like Austins for thier self cleaning blooms. I don't always have time to deadhead daily, so having dirty non dropping blooms is an unsightly problem. Especially in a climate with excess moisture sometimes, many blooms easily ball and rot. I like it when they drop themselves. As for disease resistance Kordes is king, but many of the newer roses have much better resistance to blackspot anyways.

So overall I prefer the house of Austin.

Bolero is a winner here too though!

Vap, I already have SugarMoon and love her:)

I’m sure something will jump out at me over the course of the winter season!

Ohhh what a fun thread. I keep reading all these posts and making notes of a lot of the roses mentioned here. I only grow Sweet drift from the house of Meilland and have several in my wish list like Bolero and others.

I love several of my Kordes, specially Bourdeux Cityscape, Earth angel and Pomponella. I feel like except for Bourdeux none of my Kordes bloom as much as my Austin’s. They are young yet and I am hoping this changes.

My favorites are the Austin’s no matter their flaws. Actually in my garden their only flaw is their lack of BS resistance (excluding Olivia and Lady of Shalott). I prefer blooms that nod because they look more romantic to me so not a flaw, but a trait I enjoy. Like HalloBlondie I also prefer when they drop their petals cleanly and don’t look brown and ugly so also a plus here. I get a lot of thrip damage in the roses that are slow openers like my wonderful Moonstone and their damage is amplified when they retain petals longer. The Austin’s just keep blooming and I can’t see much damage unless they are white. Now their lack of blackspot resistant could be greatly improved and should if they expect to continue to have a leading place in this market. Beauty and scent can only take you so far.

Was it not Oscar Wilde who observed that to lose one Kordes rose can be considered a misfortune, but to lose several looks like carelessness?

What an interesting thread. Right now, I would have to say my favorites are ones that have not been mentioned. It really comes down (from what I can see) to where the breeder is located and if they bred for health or just looks.

Kim Rupert's roses have done great in my yard. I have a seedling that I grew (no name) that is constantly in bloom and no disease whatsoever. Ralph Moore who bred roses about 60 miles from me also bred for health. His roses have done great in my yard. Burling--same.

There are only a few Austins that carry muster in my garden. His climate is so different than where I live and grow roses. The ones that have done well for me are Princess Alexandra of Kent, Mary Magdalene, Pretty Jessica and Munstead Wood. Lady of Shalott would come in fifth, and Brother Cadfael probably rounding up the best of the ones that I have grown. I keep the Brother due to his fabulous scent, beautiful flower and he is easy to grow on his own root.

Most of my other Austins I have gotten rid of. Jude the Obscure was definitely obscure and gone. Evelyn--gone. Peach Blossom was great but is gone due to a scrub palm growing up inside her that I couldn't get rid of no matter how hard I tried. Mary Webb--gone. Ambridge (hated the scent)--gone. Alnwick--gone. Centennial Celebration is on probation as is Sharifa Asma. They may be gone next year.

Other breeders that have done well for me are Ludwigs (Candice), Barni (Occhi di Fata), Sam McCready (Minnie Mouse) Again, where these roses are bred is more in line with my climate.

Finally, some of my best roses are antique roses. Beautiful flowers. Great scent. Just lovely!

Kordes rose that I have is Plum Perfect. Did great its first year and now--not so much. He is under surveillance to see if he will stay or go. I swear I have had or have a Meilland's rose but it escapes me at the moment as to what it was or is.

Hallo Blondie,

Of course you favor Austins. I have it from a reliable source Austin bred roses to perform magnificently in England, and in all its former colonies. Canada is still a Commonwealth Nation, are you not Canadian?

Whereas France supported the American Revolution, and the founding of my nation, the USA. Therefore, a reliable, but independent source, informed me that the Meilland founder stipulated that all their rose introductions must perform excellently both in France and in the USA.

You heard it first from me! Just don't tell anybody else, I don't want another revolution starting!

Moses

Oh Moses, you are too funny. :-p

It's been forever since I've posted some photos. But here are some stand-out stars of the late spring/summer garden:

Distant Drums

Poet's Wife, Boscobel, Distant Drum, a Marmalade Skies back there?

Carding Mill has been a superstar in the garden all year.

Love Song, Munstead Wood, w/ Cupcake Cosmos in front.

Gorgeous pictures, Debra!

Great pictures Deborah!

Moses that was very clever & humorous of you!

Hilarious, Moses!

Deborah, love your garden vignettes with the mixtures of different kinds of flowers. Well designed.

Kate

Thank you for your kind compliments! I'm constantly experimenting. I learn from all my sad mistakes...you'd think I'd make fewer by now...

Deb, those are gorgeous! What a beautiful garden!

I love your garden pictures too. The interplanting with other flowers has come out very well. What is the blue spire-like flower in the fore-gound in pict 1 & 2?

Very beautiful and very clean. Love everything about your garden

Well fellow Meilland devotees, the vote is in. Austin and Kordes have given us a good thrashing, but as any reasonable person would have to agree, and by my count, The House Of Meilland is the victor. I am unanimous in my assessment! :•)

Happy Fall, Ya'll !

Moses

Happy Fall back atcha, Moses. and may your Meillands give you a glorious season, as well as the others that didn't quite make the grade, but are still worthy contenders.

@Moses -- thanks for a fun discussion. Hope you enjoy your roses for a long time to come. @katyajini - the photo with poet's wife and boscobel has delphinium elatum 'cobalt dreams' (from Annie's Annuals) in the way back, a salvia 'Victoria' in the mid-part of the photo, and a penstemon right up in front -- it's either electric blue or margarita bop or one of those lower growing penstemons. thanks for the compliment!

Not to beat a dead horse, one other thing about Austin roses that I find unsettling, is David Austin himself, the founder, and his business practices, not necessarily unethical, but definitely the antithesis of the actions that one would expect to observe from my vision of a benevolent English gentleman, engaged in the breeding of our beloved rose.

Below is how I remember the story. Correct me if my facts are incorrect:

At first Austin did not patent his roses. Why? Perhaps he did not expect the success, especially internationally, that he later enjoyed. Some of his early introductions were/are much beloved and popular roses. Austin quickly began patenting his roses, collecting royalties from them, but his older, popular varieties were free for anyone, a commercial enterprise or a private, home gardener, to propagate, with no royalties due to Austin.

He would have nothing of this, so if a rose grower/nursery wanted to propagate and sell his newer, royalty due, patented roses, that enterprise had to agree NOT to sell any of his older, non-patented roses, or he wouldn't allow them to grow or sell his patented roses.

That business ploy really bothered me. His roses were knocked off their pedestal to me.

Austin was already a multi-millionaire (pounds), what harm was it to him for rose growers/nurseries to continue to grow and sell his royalty free, non-patented early roses?

Some nurseries/growers obliged Austin, others dropped his roses entirely. Most enterprises capitulated to his demands because Austins are hot roses...money makers, and they are beautiful, too.

So, when I see a beautiful Austin rose, I also see a greedy, ambitious man.

Yes, I know that he has been dead for over a year now.

Moses

In fairness to the late David, was it Austin Sr., or the company (I hate to say family when I have no idea how involved in the running of it they are) that pushed that ridiculous ultimatum? Things unfortunately tend to change, usually not for the better, when a family owned/run company 'goes corporate'.

Barring others from selling the older roses entirely if they want access to the new introductions is just an ugly look for your brand IMO.

I'd understand if DA just said 'we don't think the performance of these roses meet the standards of our company, these are the 'replacements' we want sold in their stead.' Talk that up in their catalogs and their websites. I 'get' wanting to protect the brand, especially if you're a newer player on the field (Meiland has the ball! Now Kordes! It looks like Beales is falling behind! Oooh, that's a hit from RRD on J&P! Can they recover?! Here comes Austin from the sides, and it's a fumble!).

Come on, if DA were marketing a rose as an 'Improved Evelyn' how many of us would jump on that? Every company is going to have older introductions that don't hold up to the demands of today (no spray, own-root). And the name '______, Improved' or 'Improved _____' has been around, for good reasons, since 1896 at least (thank you HMF).

Short version: I can kind of understand where the company was coming from, but it was at best clumsy and at worst greedy.

ac91--DA already followed your advice, and a number of buyers weren't particularly happy about it. Their original Shakespeare shrub was introduced some years ago, and then was followed not too long after by a "new and improved" Shakespeare --called William Shakespeare 2000-- that supposedly "fixed" some problems the original one had. Those who had bought the original were rather angry and there were some posts arguing which was the better rose.

Both were a darker red--nearly the same color. However, WS 2000 had a few quirks of its own--like, wanted to grow sidewise. Wasn't that great on BS resistance , if I remember correctly.

Hard as Austin worked to get the second rose to replace the first rose, a number of customers remained disgruntled for some time. Eventually most customers more or less forgot there was an earlier Shakespeare, but I couldn't see that marketing the second Shakespeare as "new and improved" did much to promote sales for DA.

Kate

peace is the only Meilland I have and i like the blooms but my plant was a cheap bareroot so it hasn’t been too impressive yet. I like kordes earth angel but mine has a very slow reblooming period. Carruth and berdard roses have done well for me. As far as Austins, I’ve had good luck with mary rose, and golden celebration. I planted olivia rose , pretty Jessica, Bathsheba and Evelyn this year and so far they have done okay. My Bathsheba is in a west facing bed and blooms seem to last around 2 maybe 3 days depending on the heat but it has such an impressive form and the buds are reminiscent of teas, so I can deal with short bloom life during summer.

Moses several rose growers including Heirloom Roses are growing off patent Austin roses as well as those on patent, so your claim that the Austins prohibit the growth of off patent roses to bolster sales for their new roses is not factually true. What is the source for your information? Because a cursory glance at the internet shows that it is inaccurate.

They can not use the proper Austin name. That is certain.

Certain based on what reputable substantiated source. A plant patent lasts 20 years. Gertrude Jekyll and Constance Spry are both no longer under patent and both sold by those names with the breeder listed as David Austin in several online nurseries right alongside Austin roses still under patent. The most popular thread about David Austin roses ever on houzz was a post from years ago fear mongering that soon only David Austin would sell David Austin roses. That didn't turn out to be true. Another blog post recently got a lot of attention for claiming several popular Austin roses would no longer be carried by the nursery this year, also not true. I think it is in poor taste to post a thread like this so soon after his passing. There is a good chance his family has a google alert set for his name and will see it.

I am a professional artist. In one of my online selling venues, someone actually made a fake facebook account posing as the most popular artist on the site to try to destroy her brand by posting hateful inflammatory comments pretending to be her. Unfortunately, when someone is successful, there are all too often rivals who will take it upon themselves to try to ruin that person's reputation.

That is because they have not been discontinued. Also the other post came from a respected horticultural magazine that was linked on another thread I believe in the Hybridizers Forum, so it appears to be true some time in the future in England. I love David Austin roses and personally don't think it's a better than proposition, just what one likes and does well in one's garden.

I have survivors and non-survivors represented from all three houses mentioned in the topic posting. I could recommend a couple of the Romanticas as doing well for the most part. The climber Polka has always done well although it usually winds up with a lot of dead wood that I have to remove because of late freezes. Another one is the yellow hybrid tea Michaelangelo which did well until it croaked from a late freeze. It grew quite tall but had nice flowers that did not fade like the Austins do. My Polka has always been pretty, but I am having to keep an eye on it for rosette because it had some odd looking growth on it that I wasn't sure what it was. It is also sitting next to a plant that also had rosette starting, but somehow with my spray mix that I was using it was one of only three that were sick that managed to survive and has been symptom-free up until now. All the rest of the ones with rosette had to be gotten rid of.

Spray mix?

I have been walking my gardens anxiously awaiting spring but dreading the possibilities that I may have more dieback than I expected. This is the first year my roses did not go dormant as our temps never got below 14F. They stayed green all winter and leafed out weeks ago. Then we got 25F and now the green growth looks like it was hit by a flamethrower. Most of those will releaf and be fine but I still have 4 roses that have black canes and are dying back to the mulch. 3 are Meillands and at least 1 for sure is going to be shovel pruned - Traviata. The next worse is Sunshine Daydream, followed by Moonlight Romantica and then sadly Love Song. That was a gamble but I so wanted the color and enjoyed the 5 blooms I got from it's one year in the ground.

Vaporvac, I make up my own spray mix usually consisting of the Bayer tebuconazole, chlorothallonil, or whatever else is handy for the diseases; sometimes a liquid foliar fertilizer and seaweed; the harpin protein material that used to be called Messenger but now is called Axiom and available at Rosemania.com; aspirin, 1 regular tablet in 3 gallons of water; and a spreader-sticker in addition to what may already be there. I get some extra disease resistance that I wouldn't ordinarily get, and hopefully, some mites that bleed to death from the aspirin which also serves as a blood anti-coagulant as well as a plant immune system booster. It does help some with the blackspot, but anything beyond that is a much-appreciated benefit. If I have a bug problem, I rarely use insecticides, but I do use dish soap solution consisting of a little Dawn and Palmolive in water in a squirt bottle. Together they can drown the bugs quite nicely, and drowning is just as dead as poisoning. I just figure dead bugs don't breed. One last thing about the aspirin is that sometimes it can burn the foliage if the rose is surprised by it, but it gets over it soon enough and does not recur. I hope this helps.

Thank you. I have used aspirin for years on other plants, but rarely on my roses. I need to look up Messenger/Axiom. If that's Spinosad, I got some last fall. Very useful.

Bustopher I hope you were not suggesting that your spray helps a RRD bush or that a diseased bush can “recover” from RRD.

If you are part of one of the university research teams forgive my questioning.

For myself, I was just asking what she sprays, not for RRD. I'm always looking for less impactful potions.

Austinkisses, I have had a bunch of roses that got RRD over time, and I had to get rid of most of them. I have, however, had 3 survivors. These 3 plants have not shown any symptoms for several years now. I did cut out the affected parts and continue to use my spray mix as normal. The three varieties that appear to be survivors or are at least asymptomatic are Blythe Spirit (Austin's), Pat Austin, and White Lightnin', the grandiflora. I had another one that put up a valiant fight, General Cavaignac, but ultimately it lost out. I gave it the regular spray treatments and cut out the bad parts, and for a while it seemed to be doing okay, but eventually the rosette would reappear. This went on for a few years. It always seemed to be worse in years when we had a bad, late freeze which would knock out the disease resistance. I finally had to get rid of it which was a shame. I have a second plant of it, but it is in a part of the yard that isn't as good. I hated to lose that rose even though it was a blackspot magnet because it did bloom quite a bit when it got going and repeated well. So, I am not sure what I can or cannot claim except that using the harpin and aspirin appeared to help some, but not most. It does help general disease resistance if the plants do not get clobbered by these late winter-spring transition freezes where the plants are trying to grow. All I can do is report what I did and what I saw as the results.

Very interesting read. I can’t fault my Austin’s. But I’m in England. Maybe they do better here in our climate?

I love Peace, but it’s so slow in repeat blooming :/

Whats the best Meilland roses? I’m tempted .... 😍