If I knew folks were coming between 2 and 3, I would assume they were not expecting lunch. However, the visit might be long enough that you might want to extend a dinner invitation?

Husbands have a different radar system than we use.

Depends on the husband. Mine would have done the inviting and then when they declined lunch would have been happy to run out and buy dessert. He's the extrovert in the relationship and enjoys entertaining much more than I do.

Eld, they would have loved you even with no pastry, but I'm sure your quick save made the visit nicer.

Elizabeth, that was my initial reaction but when you are traveling far distances, sometimes you grab a meal when you can.

Again, if it were me, I would have clarified by extending an invitation.

That was a 'nice save' Eld, I'm glad you had at least a few minutes notice to make a quick stop. I hate being totally unprepared, especially if its someone I haven't seen for a while. My sis can come up with things very spur of the moment...not a talent I particularly have.

But yes, men can think differently. Here's another example. DH came home from visiting a fav nephew last week, married just a few months ago. He said, there's a baby coming ;0) I said Great! When? 'I don't know, I didn't ask'. How is she feeling? 'I don't know, but she was napping part of the time I was there'. Do they know what they're having? 'I don't know, I didn't ask'. What did you talk about? 'Well, she showed me a 'picture' that looked like a peanut shape and said it was the baby so I gave her a hug.'

eld, you know your husband and none of us do but I'm going to suggest that I see no gender factor to explain what he did or didn't do, what you might have done or expected him to do, and what happened as a result.

Had my wife and I faced that situation, I would have been the person in your role and she would have been the one to have made incomplete, indefinite, non-specific arrangements. I always discuss options and nail down details. She would have been non-plussed when a visit time suddently emerged but still with no confirmed mutual expectations. So while you see that as a male tendency because it's about your husband, I would see it as a female tendency based on my wife's typical conduct. Result = based on your family and on mine, it's a draw.

Morz, I think we are married to the same man. That is exactly what my husband would do.

Different thinking at times, of course, because of different interests or different perspectives. My wife in Morz8's husband's role and me in her's, it might go like this:

M-How was your visit?

F- Great. She got a lot of stuff from her mother's house since she's moving to a smaller place and some of the patterns and colors are very nice. Also some nice knick-knacks.

M-When are they coming over for dinner, they were going to get back to us on that?

F- I forgot to ask, and oh, their little puppy is really cute.

M- When is she starting her new job?

F- We didn't talk about that. You should see ........

Often it's different things of interest, not necessarily different thinking.

Hubby did some electrical work for the neighbors last week. When he arrived home, he told me that they wanted to take us to dinner to show their appreciation.

"Great!" I said, "when and where?"

His reply - "I don't know, you need to call them."

It would be nice if he had arranged the details, but I consider myself lucky that he remembered the invitation.

:-)

Morz8, I think we are married to the same person. DH will come home with the same kind of statement, such as: "So-and-so was arrested." Me: "What for?" DH: "Haven't a clue" I told him if he can't get more details than that don't bother telling me anything. Sorry but in my world the men are more likely to be that way than the women. DH's philosophy is he's better off not asking nosy questions, he just wants to know the bare facts and nothing else - he thinks it makes his life simpler that way. Actually he is probably right. Me, I want to know every last detail so that I can think it to death and judge it and decide what the final best solution should be, what a waste of time that is!

OMG, they sure do. We are in the process of cleaning out our house for sale, and my husband is driving me insane. My methods are very systematic, pick a room, start in one corner, go through each thing, make a decision. He stands in the middle of a room, eyeballs the whole place. Find some random item, pulls it off the shelf, looks at it, thinks about it, puts it in a different spot. Then he stands in the middle of the room and picks a different item. Or maybe a different room.

He has so much stuff! We will never get finished at this rate.

It was 20 years ago. We were moving in a few days. I had been packing for days. DH decided to give me a "surprise 40th bday party". HIs total plan: Invite a handful of my bffs. There we sat in the middle of boxes. Nothing to eat/drink...NOTHING. Worst bday EVER!!!

I'm sorry arcy, but I laughed. Which part of that gathering was the party? I hope your BFFs came to the rescue.

Ritaweeda, I’m the same way and to digress, that is why I always go to the doctor appointments with DH. He can’t hear much and doesn’t ask questions. Maddening for a 91 year old man and makes me crazy!

I won't say all men are different, but my late husband would have invited perfect strangers to me, to even spend the night! I had to fix breakfast and prepare the room at a last minutes notice.

Sue

DH- “Colleague’s wife (who I have met) just had their baby.”

Me- “Boy or girl? What name did they choose? How much did the baby weigh?”

DH- “I dunno, it’s a baby, sort of baby size. I didn’t ask.”

Me- “Arrrrrgh!”

They did aok!! They brought a cake. Whole story DH ASSUMED the left over frozen punch from my son's First Eucharist gathering the week before, could be used. He could never know I had promised it to one of the "party" guests. The REAL MADDENING thing is when men FAIL so gloriously they feel no need to do better next time. DH feels: "Nope that didn't work, you didn't appreciate my efforts so NEVER AGAIN will I acknowledge your birthday".

Here's another example, when we travel by vehicle we use a GPS for directions. When I'm driving, I like to know if a turn is coming quickly after another turn so that I can prepare by getting in the correct lane for the turn. Hubby doesn't want as much information, he prefers to take a quick glance at the GPS map. What a boring world it would be if men and women weren't so different.

Oh, don't even get me started about Doctor's appointments. And once I had just been called to a neighbor's house right after finishing dinner - horrible mess in the kitchen due to some fancy mega-ingredient recipe. Dishes not even emptied in the garbage, everything sitting all in and around the sink. So I got back from the neighbor's emergency and lo and behold, DH was in the kitchen standing at the sink with 2 complete strangers, they were trying to afix some kind of gadget to the spigot (water filter?) to demonstrate amidst all that mess! I went ballistic. When I got through you should have seen how big around all their eyeballs were and how fast they hustled out the door! Are you kidding me??

“I dunno, it’s a baby, sort of baby size. I didn’t ask.” OMG....tears in my eyes

from laughing here. They are definitely made from the same mold, aren't they?

It's kind of the reverse in our house. My husband is a story-teller. He asks all the questions, knows all the details. I am not so much of a good listener. When stories get too long or overly detailed I sort of tune out. Like Charlie Brown listening to his teacher. Wha-wha-wha-wha. I pick up the highlights. If I am asked for a lot details I often just refer folks to him. I have been known to reply that I wasn't listening in the first place. Some stories are just so loooonnng. :-) He loves to talk. I am the quieter one.

DH also doesn't like to hear ALL THE DETAILS. His sister loves to add in all the minutia. Finally he just asks her to get to the point.

My sister thinks like a man and I probably think more like a woman. I think individual differences are more important than gender.

I suppose the men on this forum feel unduly criticised. From my generation's perspective (I'm old although i only confess to it here!) the OP's husband is standard issue. Of course there are wonderful variations on that theme but up until pretty recent times it's been women who "took care" of the social life and who were blamed if invitations weren't returned, who came up with the treat, the lunch, the party. Men had their own areas of expertise but I can tell you very few ever were aware of what had to be contemplated when offering dinner to guests who weren't family members. I, myself, have always found it fairly daunting to cook for guests. I did it and do it. But I know that even my fabulous cooking cousin who is completely ready for anything gives several hours of shopping and cooking to a small company dinner. OP's guests were practically drop-ins and she gets a medal for saving the family reputation for hospitality.

I don't feel criticized but I think many of you women coincidentally have husbands who are inattentive in or don't care about certain situations you think are important and they think are not, or who are inattentive at times to you, their wives, and you think this is a characteristic with a gender predisposition. There are lots of other personality features that may have a bias to one gender or another but I don't think this is one.

I'm in my later 60s, bleusblue, and I think standard issue among the people we know is that for social things, we often need to follow up to get the full story if the communication has come from the female partner but not as much if arranged and communicated by a male. I'm not going to call that a female tendency but perhaps a coincidence of personality types.

Men tend to be a bit more precise in their thinking and communications, women sometimes less so and often more oblique and indirect. There are exceptions in both directions. I'll ask my wife a question and she'll tell me a long list of things but perhaps not the answer to the question. I often have to ask it a second time with "That was interesting, do you remember when you started talking it was because I asked you a question? You didn't answer my question. "

As lars suggests, I think what was related was much more a personality thing than a gender thing.

Okay, so maybe I should have title my thread, "Here's how DH and I think differently."

Blues, I totally agree with you. My DH is 6 years older and he is absolutely old world in many ways.

We have the traditional division of chores. It works for us.

Oldest DD has been living with her BF for over 7 years. She is currently working on her own business, a sustainable, fare trade, organic clothing line for women. At this point, he is supporting her and her enterprise. He said to her that since they seem to have evolved into a "traditional" relationship than she should start doing some of the traditional roles! He's the bread winner and so she should take care of the house.

Back in the 1950's, there were standing jokes about husband's arriving home from work with a friend in tow, and announcing to the wife that he'd "brought the new buy in the office home for dinner". Of course, this was invariably on the night that pork chops were being served and there were only enough for 1 per person.

My late uncle, my father's bachelor brother, used to come to their town from a small town about an hour away, to do his banking once a month. He "didn't want to be a bother", so he never called ahead, but just dropped by...at 5:30 PM. My mother said it was always when she had two pork chops or chicken breasts, and she would have to run to the store and buy another. She was delighted to have him for a meal, but a little advance notice would have been appreciated.

My father had a friend from his job with whom he used to love to go to the country to shoot - sometimes game, sometimes targets. There jobs had them in two cites, transferred at the same time, and then they both retired to the same city. My mother and his wife were friends, but did not see one another as often as my father and his friend.

He'd come back from spending a day out with his friend, and my mother would say, "Did you get anymore info about when LeeAnne is getting married? When? Where?" And my father would always say, "No, he didn't mention anything LeeAnne is getting married? I didn't know". They would be gone for hours, and other than talking about their guns or where game was, they did not talk at all. I think that's pretty rare for a woman.

My mother took these two old duffers form their last dove hunting trip. She saw my father making multiple trips to the car and asked where he was going. He said he and the friend were going dove hunting - it was opening day of the season. My mother had a fit! The friend, was 90 and legally blind, and my father was in his early 80's and none to agile or alert. Put these two in the car, a trip to the country and add guns, and that's a recipe for disaster! So, she drove them, and they knew the way over every back country road. They never say a dove or shot their guns. My mother said if one had flown in the side window and out the other, right in front of their noses, they probably would have not seen it. Each died before the next dove season so at least they had one last "hunting trip" together.

Throw in a different culture, and you have our household! We're fairly used to it after so many years, but it can still be frustrating--especially when in a hurry or in an intense conversation. I love, love lotsa details (very unlike my sisters,) and dh does not.

I’d have to say, Eld, I don’t think your DD’s BF is out of line with his comments. DH and I are in the same situation. When we both worked we shared the chores more, but now that I am mostly retired, I do the lion’s share of the housework, which I think is fair as DH is still working two jobs. We’ve never discussed it per se, and DH is happy to help if asked, but I personally would be very uncomfortable asking DH to do half of the chores after working a 60+ hour week while I noodle around on the Internet and spend his money on whatever I fancy. Life is all about trade offs.

eld6161

Oldest DD has been living with her BF for over 7 years. She is currently working on her own business, a sustainable, fare trade, organic clothing line for women. At this point, he is supporting her and her enterprise. He said to her that since they seem to have evolved into a "traditional" relationship than she should start doing some of the traditional roles! He's the bread winner and so she should take care of the house.

~~~

isn't that sad? Of course if she's home she'll probably end up doing more around the house on her own. But I thought that among the young there was a realisation that the "house" belongs to both. Is she now expected to take care of food, cleaning, everybody's laundry and develop her business which is the reason she's staying home? No fair. I am a feminist, no doubt about it but I don't cite rules. My husband left all the house chores to me even though we were both involved in our free lance work. I figured out how to do it all and didn't suffer; I wasn't about to do the work of dragging him into the modern world -ha ha.

Last week I heard an interview with an author. Her book, a memoir, described her life after her husband told her he wanted to transition into a woman. She went with the flow and her book describes all the ups and downs with gentle humour. At one point her partner, now a woman, said: "You are much more demanding now that I've changed." The author said that she realised that now that there was another woman in the house she expected more from her than when she was a man!!! And the author had always considered herself a feminist.

It is a right/left mind thing. “Men are from Mars; women are from Venus”!

colleenoz

I’d have to say, Eld, I don’t think your DD’s BF is out of line with his comments. DH and I are in the same situation. When we both worked we shared the chores more, but now that I am mostly retired, I do the lion’s share of the housework, which I think is fair as DH is still working two jobs. We’ve never discussed it per se, and DH is happy to help if asked, but I personally would be very uncomfortable asking DH to do half of the chores after working a 60+ hour week while I noodle around on the Internet and spend his money on whatever I fancy. Life is all about trade offs.

~~~~

colleen -- don't you think your situation is different? You say you are mostly retired and your husband has TWO jobs. Of course you should pick up the slack. It's only fair.

Not entirely different, bluesblue. While I acknowledge that the DD is probably working to build her business, I see it in terms of contributing to the overall household. While BF contributes all the funding, it doesn’t seem fair to me that he should also do half the household chores while the DD only contributes half of the housekeeping. I think that at least she should do more than BF, and that BF should not expect the home to look like something out of a magazine photo shoot in acknowledgement of her working if not actually earning.

Colleen-- sure, it has to be discussed. I don't know exactly how much she is expected to do. I wonder what they had agreed on beforehand and what arrangement they came to. There is something though, about "contributing all the funding" being so important. You know, if he lived alone he'd be contributing all the funding and also taking care of the house. Then again -- marriage should be sharing so ... maybe ... Now honestly truly -- don't take this as a challenge Colleen -- I'm just thinking aloud.

Roles what roles. DH is so much better than I am at most of the domestic chores. I do my best but I need his help every so often and he freely gives it. Migraines before had me not being able to be organized at all. And now it's more of a forcing myself to be organized because I never had a natural routine due to illness. It is surprising how ill health can make one just give in to what is. I don't have to anymore hooray.

IMHO the bf has it wrong. She is working, just not earning money yet. He's valuing the money and not the potential future gains. Maybe he should just think of her as going to school and studying all the time.

People working on growing their businesses do everything. Growing a business is more than a full-time job. Once a small business gets going small business owners often work 60 plus hours a week.

It takes a lot of determination and focus to grow a business as well. You have to keep yourself positive, you have to keep yourself directed and focused. You have to do everything.

It would be nice if the home support were more positive. It is a lonely job in many ways. Ask me how I know.

Plus the men I've known who've started a business don't seem to have have any qualms about leaving everything to the woman. Even at the beginning when they aren't earning money and are just making contacts. They aren't expected to pick up the domestic slack. They work long hours barely see the kids Etc. Still the women I know are contributing money, emotional support and plus doing the lioness's share of domestic work.

That's my opinion anyway.

Best of luck to your DD eld. I love the idea of fair trade sustainable clothing.

I like Yeonassky

All the rest is Culture. It is what you have been taught. It is easy for men to blow off all the boring stuff because we allow it. Women are too ready to pick up the slack. It makes us feel necessary but it doesn't further humanity.

yeonassky

IMHO the bf has it wrong. She is working, just not earning money yet. He's valuing the money and not the potential future gains. Maybe he should just think of her as going to school and studying all the time.

People working on growing their businesses do everything. Growing a business is more than a full-time job. Once a small business gets going small business owners often work 60 plus hours a week.

~~~~

Worth repeating. She can do some housework while she's WORKING to build her business. He can do some housework while he's WORKING at a paying job. If they are partners in life, isn't this how they help each other get ahead?

Money is a way of keeping score so often.

I’m not saying that the BF should do NO housework, but I don’t think it’s fair he should do half. Since both are working, they’re equal in that respect. But if they share the housework equally, and then the BF pays for everything, to me that’s an inequitable arrangement. It doesn’t matter what gender which partner is, I think that such an arrangement would eventually result in resentment from the partner supplying the finance.

I wonder what the situation would be if he were the one working on developing a business and she were the one bringing home the money?

It's kind of hard to split "housework" in half. Does it mean chores are given a value and each take 50%, or is a chore mine this time, yours next week? Is the personal like or distaste for a particular chore factored in? (I HATE vaccuuming, so if DH wants it done more than once a year, he does it, lol.) Does it include house maintenance like fixing leaky faucets, seasonal tasks like lawn mowing?

I think the answer is: we know it when it's fair, we feel it when it's unfair. Good luck to every couple as they tackle housework distribution for themselves. A healthy partnership can/should/must figure out some arrangement that both are content with.

Bluesblue, I did say it doesn’t matter how the genders are arranged. If I was working and DH was building a business, I’d be quite irked if I was also doing half the housework as well.

I guess what I'm saying is that if everyone were equal all the time that would be wonderful. but I think in reality there's an ebb and flow in the sharing in a relationship too. Sometimes she has more money sometimes he has more money sometimes she picks up the slack sometimes he picks up the slack.

That doesn't mean that people can be completely neglectful house work-wise. Working together to choose a standard by which you live in the circumstances you have is what every couple has to do.

You can have anything you want but not all at once is I think is how the saying goes.

colleenoz

Bluesblue, I did say it doesn’t matter how the genders are arranged. If I was working and DH was building a business, I’d be quite irked if I was also doing half the housework as well.

~~~

I'm talking about expectations in general. I suppose you have been married awhile and found what works for you -- but in my generation it was different. "She" was there to support him in his career choices and he was supposed to put everything into his project/education/building business because it would benefit them both in the future. In the best of cases they both let the housework go. I am hoping it's different today but the OP doesn't sound encouraging.

There is also the unevenness of power. If he has all the money and is using it to broker power that always makes me feel very uncomfortable in any type of relationship.

Eld I know we are speaking of your DD and BF who are real people: I hope I am not making you feel uncomfortable by opining away. All the best.

If she is working full time to build her business, then I agree the housework and chores belong to both equally, however they decide to divide them. If her business is very successful and she ends up bringing in more $$ than him, will he then think he should pick up the slack and do more domestic chores than she? I don't think so.

I've always felt that with household chores and childcare, even if one parent is home, at 6 pm when the other parent arrives home, both workdays are over and everything (division of labor) starts over. Whoever was working outside the home doesn't get to enjoy a cook/maid/housekeeper/nanny putting in a longer day to do the chores/childcare until bedtime.

Just to ease concern, DD's bf is a really nice, easy going guy. I actually liked that he spoke up about shifting their division of labor.

I think these tendencies vary more with the individual than it does necessarily just to gender. But my experience pretty much mirrors what most have stated here.

For most of my married life, I was the primary breadwinner (larger salary). But that did not mean I didn't carry the lions' share of househld responsibilities - I did virtually ALL the cooking, cleaning, laundry, gardening etc. Otherwise it would never have gotten done and it was just not worth the dissention to debate about it. And there would have been NO social engagements unless I initiated them. Things like that were just not in his play book :-) (when we finally did split up, he complained that all "our" friends sided with me. What he failed to understand was that I was the one that cultivated and encouraged the friendships and they were really my friends, not his as he put out no effort to maintain them)

In hindsight I should have known better :-) He was an only child and a mommy's boy who had everything done for him while growing up, even though he had not lived at home for years before we met.