We grow the one Greg Grant found in Texas, years ago, as a very vigorous "clone." I've always wondered if they were really clones, or if some (most) are infected with some virus. In any case, there are certainly big differences among sources of this rose. We graft it to 'Fortuniana'. That combination -- Greg Grant's selection, 'Fortuniana' roots, and central Florida's hot, humid climate, combine to make it the single most vigorous rose I've ever grown. A small potted plant can be set out in the garden and completely cover an 8x8' arbor in one season. Then it reaches out to shade every other rose in its vicinity. A true house-eater. I agree with Paul -- it will ball in damp weather, and can be really ugly then. But in good weather, it's amazing. This rose, perhaps more than most, also seems to be picky about some aspect of where it's grown -- perhaps soil. In many areas, it is far better grafted, even if the area normally supports own-root roses of other varieties perfectly well. Even back when it was first introduced, describers of this rose tended to discuss the best understock for it, when they'd not be having that discussion with any other rose. In any case, it certainly takes well to 'Fortuniana' roots.

Mallcolm Manners has indicated to me that Marechal Niel is extremely unforgiving of any pruning, even with only taking a foot or so off of it overall. You may lose this rose by moving it, especially with the weather warming up. Perhaps you have no choice in doing so, but if you can avoid it I wouldn't move it. I have a Marechal Niel from Malcolm that is on fortuniana, and it is virus free. This makes for a very robust and well adapted plant for Florida. Marechal is growing very well and I love it, but I can tell that it is not one of the "typical" old roses. It does seem to be a rather fragile beauty, and I'll tell you why I think this. A month or so ago I groomed all of my rose bushes and part of my grooming includes stripping off leaves that are spotted or otherwise unhealthy looking. I then use liquid fertilizer such as fish emulsion and Mills easy feed. Marechal Niel sat there glaring at me and was trying to decide if it would punish me in some way, like maybe committing suicide. I'm talking big time sulk. I had been very worried about what I did, but today (FINALLY!) it is leafing out vigorously again. This is one touchy rose. Absolutely worth it, but not very forgiving. Sandy

Daisy: As one who has coddled and cajoled 'Marechal Niel' for years, I think your plants would be truly amazing regardless of age -- but considering that they're hardly a year old, they are absolutely jaw-dropping! Based on my experience with MN, I think the answer to the problem may be contained in your statement that the dropping of buds began after the first flush and is continuing. I've come to believe that bud drop on my plant is related to an especially heavy spring flush. It's as tho the plant expends a tremendous amount of stored energy on a spring growth spurt, the first flush, then a heavy production of "second wave" buds, but just can't muster the wherewithal to bring all those buds into full flower. I now think of the bud drop as the rose's way of "stopping to catch its breath." If MN performs in your locale the way mine does, bloom production will slow during the summer months and the bud drop will stop altogether or become negligible. Perhaps a timely dose of nutrients would lessen the drop, but I've never tried that for fear of exacerbating the problem. Jerome: Your experience with the re-potted MN serves to validate my belief that too many gardeners fail to appreciate the value of good root systems. I try always to purchase my ownroots in early spring, grow them in pots for at least a season, and disbud them with a vengeance until I plant them in the garden. There's hardly anything quite so gratifying as removing a rose from its pot and finding a large tangled mass of healthy roots! I marvel at the reports here of folks who plant small bands directly in the garden, allow them to bloom with abandon straight away, and, after a single season, enjoy robust plants. Either they're much more proficient gardeners than I'll ever be, or they garden in climates that are far more benign than mine.

I'm still brainstorming - will let you know my ideas as gel. I'm leaning towards building a large (20 feet wide by 8 feet tall) trellis structure along my "eyesore" area that leads out to pool equipment, etc. It really is an ideal site for a rose. It faces east, gets sun all day, and is somewhat protected from high winds. I suspect if Marechal Niel dislikes any pruning he would not like exposed winds out in the open. It means I have to relocate 3 roses I planted there in the spring, but that's O.K. Solves the eyesore aspect also. My husband knows how to weld, but even so, aluminum posts and square tubing is pricey. However, it is an investment in our home, so I'd like to find a way to do it. We talked about pressure treated posts, but have determined they may last only 20 years. I want the structure to last longer than that. If this roses does well, I don't want to have the structure come down in 20 years. I hope to still be alive and kicking then. It would be really cool to have this rose thrive. I don't want fussy roses, but this one is sparking my challange genes. Sandy