You'll have the "brackets" problem no matter what other components make up the design--vertical standards, 3" metal bar that spans the top, or brackets screwed directly to the wall--and EVEN if you use laminate shelves. I have that "straddle the brackets" problem on the plywood bookshelves and toy shelves we've installed in 3 spots in our house. (they don't have that 3" metal bar, but they have vertical metal standard screwed directly to the wall; It's my impression that *my* standards are shallower than the ones that are designed to slip over the 3" metal bar; my standards jut out from the wall only about3/4"). Never again w/ the brackets in the kids' rooms. I end up w/ lots of headroom because I have to leave room for the bracket itself to fit over the box on the shelf, and then stuff just gets stuffed into the headroom space, which makes it hard to take stuff out and messy looking. I have the same problem for the books w/ books being laid on their sides on top of the row of books; what I want to do there is to make a "fake book" (cover a short block of foam w/ wallpaper, or something) to slide into the spot under the bracket and hold the books up); then I can space the shelves much more closely so there's no headroom to put anything up there. THAT SAID, you'll have to "straddle" SOME sort of shelf support. You could have solid sides (like bookcases), which would eliminate the brackets, but then you'd have the maneuver around the sides of the entire shelf, and you can't slide stuff from one section of shelf to the other, and you CAN'T straddle the bracket. Most pantries are just too wide to have shelves w/ no center support. You can apply a brace to stiffen the front edge of the shelf, but it'll need to be about 1.5 or 2 inches wide, so that'll cut into your maneuverability, too. The one advantage I see to the kind like you describe, w/ the metal bar across the top that the standards hang from, is that you can reposition the standards. You can say, "wow, that bracket is in the way; I'll slide it over to the left to it's RIGHT at the end of the shelves, and then it'll bother me less." gsjazz1, you sound sort of determined to buy these; I think you should follow Ann's suggestion to take some pantry goods to the store, and set them on a stretch of shelving. Take cans, boxes, cereal stuff, the vanilla bottle, spice bottles, etc. See how it works. I agree w/ you that the 5/8" ought to work better than the 1", but I can see that even the 5" might be awkward. If you really want to be sure, try it out.

A common method for spotting the lift line for large fixture is to attach the lifting gear to the ceiling joists in a convenient location, then run the lift cable over to a pulley supported by the rafters and spotted exactly were needed. Even a heavy light fixture is usually a relatively small structural load. In residential work the rafters often need some blocking near the point load to limit torquing of the rafter, but tying into two rafters is normally more than adequate. You do need to consider how the loads will be applied to all the components. No wood fastener should be loaded in tension (withdrawal). Even wood screws. Actual screws and bolts can be loaded this way if needed. I often use pieces of angle iron down the sides of the ceiling rafters and joists and then through bolted to hold this type of equipment in place. The lift cable can even rub against the side of a joist if needed. If it is dead center you may need to cut the joist and splice it on each side to create a passage for the cable. If you have trusses an approval will be required from the truss manufacturer, but it should only require a bolted double splice of the same dimensions as the member you are cutting. Believe me, this should be pretty minor compared to other things they have had to deal with

Thank you to all of you for your help and those photos. I think I see the light...but I still have questions. If I want a 12" overhang, 2cm granite, I need to have 6" of support under my overhang and 12" under the rest of my granite. If I want a15" overhang, 2cm granite, I need 9" of support and 18" under the rest of my granite. If I want 12" OH, 3cm granite, then it's 2" support and 4" under the rest and if it's 15" OH, 3cm granite, then it's 5" of support and 10" under the rest. If I did the rolled steel, would it make a big difference if I had a sink cutout on the other side? I plan for a 15" deep cabinet along the backside, so in the situation where I need 18" under the rest of my granite, could I eliminate the 3" under that section, or cheat and just cover the 15" cabinet? And do you just screw this into the cabinets along the top edges? And how often do you add a screw? One every 12"? Do you also add glue? How am I suppose to balance out the 1/4" difference from the front of the island to the back? And once balanced, do I still need a plywood underlay? Who normally supplies the underlay? Is it only for counters who are 2cm thick? Sorry for all the questions. This is my first reno and I'm not reno savvy. The most I've done is paint and build a few ikea shelves. Sum5463, it looks like your steel ends in the middle of the cabinet closest to us. How did you balance out the difference? Again, a big thanks to you and your photos. Jams

I'm wondering what different people here mean by "wire shelving." The comments about it being "cheaper" suggests folks are talking about something different that what I think of for "wire shelving." Mine are several hundred dollars a bay, which is certainly not "cheap", or "cheaper than wood." I suspect people who don't like them have some sort of low-quality shelving, like I've seen for sale in a hardware store around here. I have "Metro" shelving, and it's great. "Cleaning" isn't an issue--it stays clean with having to do any cleaning*. It is rare for there to be a problem with things falling over. Light comes through the shelves, which makes it much easier to see what is there than if they were solid. (I note that I run a lot of it quite close together--like one 14-oz. can high, so that I can pack of lot of stuff in not very much space.) I've attached a link to the kind of shelving I have, except that I have about 8 shelves in the same space as their illustration shows 4 shelves. * Regarding cleaning: I've done some work in a Class 10 cleanroom, and all the shelving there was exactly the same stuff (though the stainless steel version rather than the chrome version, because all the metal in the cleanroom is required to be stainless steel). It's there because it's the cleanest shelving available. To give you some idea of what is expected there, people have to be in bunny suits, wear gloves, and go through and air shower before entering. Here is a link that might be useful: Metro shelving