I thought about that too, and was thinking that maybe the early April organic takes the place of the November chemical winterizing?

Also, I thought it was ok to use organic in July?

I think that regimen is likely fine. one year is different from the next though so I'd rather see applications based on the weather patterns for a given time. Some years mid April is not too early, some July's the lawn is still going strong. Is there summer irrigation or not? Also sometimes it's about feeding the microbes and not just the lawn. I try to make sure to have organic products down when worms are active so they can work the soil.

The LCN is ok but now that's he's pushing to sell all this product I would take some of his recommendations with a grain of salt.

I totally get that vibe from his recent videos; he's definitely pushing products that he's probably getting a kickback from.

However the milo schedule was from a few years ago before his videos became really popular.

Morph, mishmosh, and lawniac:

You guys are some of the most knowledgable posters here. I've gotten a lot of great info from you guys. I'm still not quite on top of things yet, but I have high hopes for next year. Would any of you consider outlining a lawn care plan? Or, if I post mine as I intend to implement next year, would you review and critique it?

Sure, go for it. Don't forget to post your location.

Sure, no problem. You'll find I'm extraordinarily conservative--no summer feeding with anything and a strict hands-off policy in early spring as well. :-)

You'll find that I'm pretty aggressive, so hopefully mishmosh falls in the middle somewhere :-)

Ok: Zone 7, Northern NJ.

Grass: mix of KBG, Rye, Fescue.

I redid the lawn (7500 sq. ft.) myself a few years ago, (new topsoil, seed, fert.) and came in great but every summer have been hit hard by either disease or drought stress, or both. I did have a soil test done by Rutgers in 2017 and all was normal. This summer I had a couple of landscapers look at it and they all said fungus.

While I did apply fungicide at the outset in June, by July there was really nothing left to try and treat. One thing I never did was core aerate, which I did do this September for the first time before overseeding. I think the soil was compacted and promoted the disease. Also, while I read that mulch mowing leaves in the fall was good for the lawn, I did not know that you actually need a mulching blade. I believe that last fall by me just mowing the leaves into chunks and leaving them on the lawn where they did not decompose also contributed to disease (I'm thinking no aeration plus the leaves suffocated the lawn and didn't allow proper penetration of water and fertilizer, etc.)

All that being said, I put together a plan for next year. I am waiting until the grass stops growing this month to winterize with a chemical 18-0-3 fert.

Late March/Early April:

Rake, clean up yard debris, get new blade, spark plug, filter and oil for lawn mower.

Mid April (or when forsynthias bloom):

Apply pre emergent (Prodiamine) I will use the granular in a rotary spreader.

Mid April: 1st fert. (Milorganite 15 lbs. per 1000)

I know this one is in contention based on our above discussion so I'm not sure if I will follow this step depending on how the lawn greens up for the winterization or what you folks recommend.

Memorial Day/Late May:

Fert. Milo same rate.

Begin preventative fungicide routine (Scott's Disease Ex w/ azoxystrobin) apply every two weeks until end of August)

July 4:

Fert. Milo same rate (I know this one is also in contention also based on our above discussion)

Early September/Labor Day:

Dethatch/Aerate/seed (if necessary)

Fert. Milo same rate

Late October:

Fert. Milo same rate

Late November/When grass stops growing:

Winterize with chemical fert. 18-0-3

Watering Schedule:

1 inch a week (1/2 inch one day, 1/2 inch 3 days later) subtracting rainfall. In extreme heat raise watering to 1.5 inches a week.

Mowing:

Mow on highest setting except for last mow before winter/mow a little shorter

I have not followed a routine like this so far in any of the previous years. My fertilizing schedule was shaky, as was my watering. I will say that I was definitely on the lighter side of fertilizing, so I am thinking my lawn might want more frequent apps? Also, I was not diligent with the preventative fungicide, and it cost me, so that's why such a heavy approach planned for next year.

Lastly: the current state of the lawn is green, but somewhat patchy due to last summer's disease, and not having ample time to overseed (did it at the end of September due to waiting for guy to come aerate). There was some germination but suddenly we got temps in the 30's at night).

Thanks in advance for any comments.

(Whew) I just zipped away from my work and winterized, we're getting snow tomorrow. It'll melt on Friday morning.

Other than the already-known contentions, I don't have any problems with this. I would certainly try cutting those two feedings to see if the disease issue improves (many diseases feed on free nitrogen and fresh, juicy lawn growth). I'd also recommend rotating fungal preventatives in use to keep the fungus from getting used to whatever you're using.

I have a feeling that the aeration step isn't helping you, but that's another story and discussion. You're slamming tines into root systems that just spent months suffering fungal problems...it would be better to encourage worms and other aerators to do the job for you.

Thanks Morph.

Is it possible my lawn, that faces south on a slope and is in direct sun all day through Spring/Summer might want more fert.?

If anything, less during off seasons, It's going to be stressed like my southwest section during July. And nitrogen--from any source--winds up being a salt whenever it's active.

Until you are committed to the organic fert approach, core aeration is a good thing I think. If your soil is compacted it may take a while even when starting to use organic fertilizers to build up worm populations. If you are new to organic based fertilizers, let me just encourage you to stay the course to see the results. Milorganite shows good results quickly though as much of it is fast-acting and the iron goes a long way (or at least it did when it was 4%!)

I agree with morph that fertilizers can get you in trouble with fungus. Especially true the further south you go with cool season grass. Disease risk is a lot higher than where I live (NE Ohio) where fungicides are usually limited to golf courses. We rarely see anything but mild disease. North Carolina for instance recommends fertilization in early spring and *nothing* from April through August, for tall fescue. If you seem to get disease in June, I would definitely avoid fertilizers any time around there. I don't like prophylactic fungicides because it goes against what I am trying to achieve with organic based fertilizers. But YMMV, and I certainly can't speak for anyone else's situation, especially people living more south than I do.

And speaking of summer performance, I think trying to maintain a showcase lawn through the summer swelts is misguided. I think a lot depends on your neighbors because keeping up the Joneses is a real phenomena. I used to be in that same boat. Now I am big on letting nature take it's course by the lawn going dormant; not fertilizing when it does so and then watering for survival only. The lawn is better for it (arguably) and so is my pocketbook.

Morph and Mishmosh-

Thanks guys for your input.

Question:

"The Lawn Care Nut" 's lawn in the videos when he lived up north with the heavy Milo schedule looked great.....also Lisa, who I guess has disappeared, did the same regimen and her lawn was outstanding.

Now, I've seen both of your lawns here which also look great....simply put: I'm seeing 2 different schools of thought and both seem to work great....I don't know which path to follow.

I guess it's up to me through trial and error.

I think your fertilizer approach is good - albeit very conservative. Your weed control and disease prevention plan is appropriate. If you wanted to go synthetic alternative spring regimens would include:

- Spoon-feedings of synthetic fertilizer at 0.2 lbs N every 2 weeks

or

- 0.5lbs N/thousand/month of Lesco 21-4-11 (90% PSCU)

If aiming to maintain quality through summer, you can slightly reduce and maintain above (0.15 lbs N/every 2 weeks). A small amount of N helps grass with photosynthesis, and can help it cope with summer stress better.

Personally I would replace all fall applications of Milorganite with synthetic, and aim to deliver 0.3 lbs N per week. If you have a lot of ground to make up post-summer, you could go as high as 0.5lbs per week. Then end with a winterizer at 1lb N/thousand.

The above would deliver somewhere around 6 lbs N/thousand for the year.

I think you biggest challenge is not fertilization, but summer survival. Key points to remember regarding lawn care through summer:

- Heat alone does not kill grass. Not even prolonged periods of temperatures over 100.

- Fungus is the #1 killer of grass during summer. Easy to stay out of trouble, very hard to get out of trouble. Start a preventive program early and stick with it through September.

- Lack of water is the #2 killer of grass during summer. If it looks wilted it needs water, even if you just watered 2 days ago.

Ok so mishmosh is in northeast Ohio, lawniac is in North Carolina, and morph is in eastern Pennsylvania. I'm in northern NJ. I guess we all have somewhat similar weather conditions year round for the most part.....

To summarize: morph say lay off the fert. in April and July. mishmosh seems to agree, saying that too much N can contribute to fungus. lawniac agrees that my #1 problem is fungus, even though he recommends more fert.

I guess I will play it by ear in the spring. I just put down my 18-0-3 winter fert. yesterday before the snow came. If the lawn looks good in April I guess I'll wait until mid May to fert. ? Because if I fert. on Memorial Day isn't that too close to June when fungus usually starts to happen?

I think everyone agrees with the strong fungicide approach?

Fall is good time to really go heavy for cool season grass. Spring/summer? Not so much. Can you get your hands on Urea for winterization. Most big box store formulations aren't all fast acting nitrogen. I actually still haven't put mine down. It's unusually cold lately but the long range says it'll be more seasonal temp end of next week and that's when I usually put it down. For me, that comes to two organic applications and two synthetic for the fall.

Hi,

I have been following this very interesting dialogue.

Thanks for starting the conversation Joe.

I am in Central Massachusetts and trying to learn as I go; using the information you guys have been nice enough to provide .

Mishmosh, you wrote "For me, that comes to two organic applications and two synthetic for the fall."

What are the approximate dates for two organic and two synthetic applications?

Is this your entire fertilization program?

Prior to moving into my new home in April; which is a whole nother story.

Questions on my new sod and seed lawn for you guys to follow in late winter 2018 or early spring of 2019 .

My plan was:

Mid April (or when forsynthias bloom): Apply Jonathan Greene's pre emergent Crabgrass & Weed Preventer containing Dimension. Granular in a rotary spreader.

Mid May/Late May: 1st Fertilization Jonathan Greene's Green-up 29-0-3.

August 1st : Milorganite 15 lbs. per 1000

September 1st: Milorganite 15 lbs. per 1000

October 1st: Milorganite 15 lbs. per 1000

Late November/When grass stops growing: Winterize with Scotts' Winterguard 32-0-6.

Watering Schedule: 1 inch a week (1/2 inch one day, 1/2 inch 3 days later) subtracting rainfall.

Is this a plan okay once my new lawn is established at my new home?

All suggestions and recommendation are welcome.

Thanks again

That's an interesting take on the fertilizing schedule gle....still 5 apps like my original plan, but the timing shifted somewhat and includes the late November winterizing....interesting...

Still a work in progress.

Hopefully lawniac, mishmosh, and morph will comment and make recommendations.

Thats a decent schedule for Florida, unless a soil test shows you need something a bit extra that Milo will not provide. Its a similar schedule that someone like me would use in Southern Cal.... I use Milo in mid fall, to hold the color in Bermuda when the nights cool down. The iron is a big help, and bermuda does not like a lot of nitrogen in the cold.......but does like a little bit.

gle2011, you probably have the closest seasonal temps to me. I would swap out your May synthetic application with Milorganite. From Sept through late November, I think you can squeeze in two organic application followed by two synthetic applications. The first fall synthetic application I do approximately early October, and usually GreenMax or turfbuilder or whatever is on sale at the box store. It will NOT create a flush of growth heading into cold temps. Mother nature will quash top growth when the cold hits, trust me. Last application is urea.

thanks mishmosh

Will this feritilization schedule work for my new lawn at our new home?

New lawn will be sod in front and side, seed in backyard.

Thanks

Gle2011, should be fine. Sod or seeded parts don't have deep roots so definitely water enough during the summer--do not let your lawn go dormant. It is OK to feed new lawns more fertilizer the first year.

And yeah, pour it on in Fall. I drop soy in August, September, and October, and a synthetic in November (normal years). I'm not above also dropping a bit of synthetic in addition to the organics in September and/or October if the situation calls for it.

gle: I also drop organics once in early May, but that's it for spring. And for me, I apply a pre-emergent in September as I'm mostly guarding against P. annua, which is going to sprout in September and October.

I just posted my yearly lawn additions: My lawn blog

lawniac agrees that my #1 problem is fungus, even though he recommends more fert.

Well actually, that's not true - at least not in the fungus context. My recommendations are optimized for reducing the likelihood of disease. Your schedule includes 3 apps of Milorganite mid-April through July at a rate of 15lbs/K. At 6% N that's 2.7 lbs N during that time period. My recommendations are 0.2 lbs N every 2 weeks, and reduced to 0.15 lbs N during summer. That would amount to 6 apps at 0.2 lbs and 5 apps at 0.15 lbs N for a total of about 2lbs N. If you exclude the summer apps, you're at 1.8lbs N with Milorganite vs about 1.2 lbs N based on my recommendations. So I'm actually taking it easy during spring.

Typically what happens is if you dump a whole bunch of fertilizer all at once it delivers a big punch, causing a flush of growth which results in fungus problem. Spoon feeding resolves that problem by supplying a lower but steady supply of N that satisfies the grass' needs and maintains color and quality without causing a flush of growth. It also gives you control, organics release whenever Mother Nature feels like it, whereas with urea you know exactly what you're getting, when and for how long.

For cool season grasses, fall is when you want to load up on fertilizer. 4-5 lbs N in the fall can help you recover from a tough summer, and there's no fungus issues to worry about with cooler weather.

Thanks mish and morph.

I am definitely going to try to follow the formulas you've laid out as close as possible.

I'll try to find urea locally. There is always Amazon...

We got 9" of heavy wet snow yesterday hopefully it will melt and i'll be able to apply a late season synthetic.

morph your gardens are spectacular, thanks for the blog.

Thanks again you guys