Okay, I really don't want to complicate or confuse you because I am confused, but let me see if I can answer. If you are suggesting you won't be planting your desired cover crop for quite some time, then yes, it's a good idea to plant the annual rye in those areas until you're able to plant your desired crop. But, if you're planning to sow both, your desired ground cover and annual rye because you think the periwinkle and such will take a long time to grow or "take hold," please do not do that. You do not want to plant annual ryegrass along with any other cover crop. It is known to have an allelopathic affect on some growing plants. That doesn't mean all other plants, but it has not been tested for all, so you don't know what it will affect and what it won't affect. That means annual rye can prevent your other crop from growing by either restraining their growth or by slowing it down. Even if your desired plants are not affected in this manner, annual ryegrass germinates and grows very quickly, much faster than almost anything else. Therefore, the end result will be the same as if in the allelopathic chemistry being that your desired crop cannot grow into the same spots that the rye quickly occupies - still stunting the growing and spreading ability of your desired crop. Get me? So whatever and whenever you are going to plant your desired crop, be sure to eradicate the rye before planting anything - grass or whatever. And speaking of growing and spreading, periwinkle is a very vigorous plant that spreads over a wide area in not much time. Now, I am not at all familiar with it or with pachysandra, so it would behoove you learn as much about planting and when to plant as possible, just like you're learning about growing your desired lawn grass. I don't doubt there are forums to help with those to tell you such information as germination rates, seedling vigor, time of full establishments, and so on. If, however, you are not planning to plant the others for quite some time, then feel comfortable in knowing annual rye will serve your needs in the meantime. Is that what you mean by "it will take years" or do you think that's how long it will take periwinkle or whatever to establish? I rather doubt the latter, but it's in your best interest to know for sure. I don't know what kind of plants those are, so I can't direct right to the correct forum but here is the list of forums. Good luck and please tell me if answered this time. LOL

Oh Man! I live in SE Michigan and while it's too late this year, you have me all fired up about doing a glysophate nuke on my KBG next spring and putting down some bentgrass. Also, I love your part of the country. Have had the privilege to play Blackwolf Run (both courses), but haven't made it back to do Whistling Straits. I do have that on my bucket list though. Not sure you knew about, or even need this yet, but there is a special herbicide (trimec flavor) just for bentgrass. All that time and money you've put into your lawn, no sense burning it up with some generic weed killer. I'll put the link down below for you. Plus I noticed all kinds of bentgrass seed, in various small poundages. I noticed that there are not too many places to buy bentgrass seed in small quantities. Do you think that means bentgrass for residences are not that popular? I would think with all the golfing fools out there that they would entertain the idea of a bentgrass lawn. Interesting. Again, fantastic lawn, look forward to more pictures! Todd

Quote from danielJ_209-09(6b): "What problem does pre-germinating solve for you?..." Thanks for the reply. I was thinking the upside for us would be: --- that if we do get a torrential flooding in the days of pre- germination, the seed is still inside and intact instead of flooded out and washed away down the ditch. --- Also, the pre-germinated seeds will have a headstart and take root faster? We can watch the weather and try to choose a shorter window for reseeding. --- I think it'll be easier to rinse the seed inside for those days than to keep it watered outside multiple times in a day. (Even though we don't need to reseed anywhere near the 3 acres, and not all of it is subject to flooding.) No worries, we'll do the proper work of preparing the ground, and of keeping it moist once it's broadcast. Note, I definitely would not try to trowel on a seed mixture as the Original Poster did! I've got a lot more area to reseed than 9ftx12ft! The author at http://homeguides.sfgate.com/pregerminate-grass-seed-40392.html says we can broadcast the pre-germinated seed in a mix. Assuming we CAN broadcast manually or with a spreader, I don't see a downside to pre-germinating. Maybe I should try a trial run of the method with a small amount of seed, and see how well it mixes and then broadcasts in various media. Quote from danielJ_209-09(6b): " Is there any way to install a simple drain from your low spot to the street before you seed? Your lawn isn't going to fare well if it gets submerged or at least saturated with water." Right. The lot does clear of flooding very quickly, though -- usually in a few hours. When we moved here, the grass was established,. It has never had a problem surviving well in the area. Any downpours and flooding situations (say 5" of rain in a few hours) are short-lived and it doesn't take long to dry out. The grass was mistreated, or the original grass would still be healthy. It's not a boggy area at all. We do seem to have had more of these downpours this Summer than normal, so they're on my mind as I think of Fall reseeding. But rain is welcome after some weeks that were too dry. We already have a dry well to help with flooding (about the size of a small car). We originally graded quite a bit, but the bottom of the wide and shallow ditch is not low enough given the sudden downpour or I suppose mainly the ability of the ditches to handle the water downstream from us. Neighborhoods were added; fields were usurped. There's nowhere else for that water to go except downstream, and it has to wait its turn. Luckily it all drains very well as soon as the water system can handle it, and water has never backed up anywhere near the house. I know the bottom of the ditch is higher than our foundation but it's a long gradual slope -- to the unpracticed naked eye it looks pretty flat. That concern about flooding in these areas is the main reason I thought of pre-germination to shorten our risk of losing any new seed before it's established. It's too long a line along the ditch to put in sandbags until grass is established. Who knows, the weather this Fall may be great for reseeding. Just thought we'd lessen the risk. And if there is a recommended mat or even burlap we might use in the most flood-prone areas that could be used over pre-germinated seed, I'll price it out. But I was thinking even a mat wouldn't help with a flood. Worst case, if reseeding doesn't take this time, I could lay sod in a few of those areas. I think plugs would be a lot of work. And overkill -- this is a 3 acre field.

Thanks for the other tips! I hardly have any shade in my garden, so I'm not sure that the Inside Out Flower or False Solomon's Seal would do so well. Thanks for reminding me about Farewell to Spring. In the Pojar/MacKinnon book they've got a lovely photo of it that I've enjoyed on many ocassion. More penstemons and shrubby cinqefoil are good ideas! Bosky Dell has a seemingly definitive listing of native penstemons: http://www.boskydellnatives.com/description_page%5CPenstemon_spp..htm I get persnickety because they're a bit more loose w/ their native description (geographically) than my anal-retentive aura can embrace. My friend has something with itty bitty pink flowers (clusters) that we've been unable to identify that is in bloom today. We also saw a white single petaled rose in bloom that looked similar to rosa nutkana, but I didn't think we hadn't in Willamette Valley native roses w/ white flowers. Plus, these flowers seemed a bit big, around 3-4" across. And finally, I have to give a shout-out to ceanothus velutinus/snowbrush ceanothus. Fixes nitrogen, fun shiny evergreen leaves: http://www.swsbm.com/Images/C/Ceanothus_velutinus.jpg