Is this a flat? Are there drawings or a plan? Why do larger sinks cause more dirty dishes to pile up...are they secret agents of laziness?

its eaiser to stack dishes than do them or put them in a dishwasher. yes, lazy.

it's a 2700 sqft house.

for some reason houzz makes it small. i dont know how to upload a larger version.

Post a legible and bolder KITCHEN plan. Nobody can read it. I'd be more worried about the 24/7 need for lighting in the tomb you are creating........than the drawers.

"drywall is about to go up, so no major changes can be made"

Go with what you have planned, it is a little late to make it better.

I'd switch to a single bowl sink and locate it so you're not back-to-back with the cooktop. Lighting is massively important in any kitchen even one with large windows. No sun at night. To get strong shadow free lighting on your work surfaces you can choose Juno 2" led recessed lights spaced above counters and the island in front of where you stand. Various trims. 1000 lumens from 10 watts.

I want to hear what Sophie has to say...

All drawers. Is it better to have all identical cabinet bases or should i mix 2 and 3 drawers?

I strongly prefer the look of matching cabinets. If you need shallow drawers (i.e., for knives and prep items), I'd agree with doing the drawer-in-a-drawer thing to get the function you need.

Have you mapped out exactly where all your current kitchen gear will be stored in these cabinets? Plan -- don't assume.

what size prep sink? i want a ledge sink but 32" seems way too big. 25" seems better but not many that size (budget $400 or less since i can get a nice 32" for that). bigger sink means more dishes will pile up but it seems, for the money, i might as well go 32"

I say place one BIG sink, and do it right: right location, one offset drain, a garbage disposal, appropriate prep items placed at hand. Your sink is in the major work area. A prep sink elsewhere will just take up space that could've gone to storage.

32" is the entry point for "big enough".

yes, i know i dont have a window and thats a major sin.

With no windows and no uppers, what's on your walls? Have you "walked through" this kitchen on some type of 3D software? It sounds kind of "empty" to me.

My thoughts:

The area in red is your primary work area. With this in mind, I'd move the double ovens over to the secondary cabinet run on the left /they aren't a constant-use item, and they don't deserve a spot in the heavy-work area ... and, thinking that dishes will be stored in that secondary cabinet run, I'd bump the dishwasher to the other side of the sink; this will place the dishwasher nearer the dish storage spot, and it will allow you drawers for use-at-the-sink-prep-items such as knives and measuring cups at your right hand. Still on the subject of putting dishes away, you want to store drinking glasses next to the refrigerator ... will you have an appropriate drawer for that?

Note that the swinging pantry door covers part of your shelves. You'd have to go into the pantry and close the door to access the things stored in that area. This is a perfect spot for a pocket door.

I'm still having trouble reading the plans. Is that the refrigerator deep in the corner of the kitchen by the pantry?

Is this a kitchen for one person or a couple who mostly reheat takeout, or is it supposed to be a kitchen for an individual/family who like to cook? Hopefully the former.

If the latter, did you know about the Kitchen forum even six months ago? It's always worth posting a layout there. I would see if you can still glean something from this very valuable post,

New to Kitchens? Read Me First!

I usually think that lighted drawers are a non-essential novelty, but you might actually be able to make good use of them in this kitchen.

yes, i'm aware of the kitchen forum, i tried posting this there too, i'm not sure how the crossposting all works on here anymore. i clicked the kitchen forum as well

SMH

Sweet Michigan Honey?

I'm not sure why this didn't post in the original post. It showed when i was posting. sorry.

Reading over this plan, I have some questions:

- Can you store all your pots, pans and colanders in TWO bottom drawers? Even if you're storing your big soup pots in the pantry, this seems like too little space. I mean, I have my everyday-sized pots and pans, my cast iron stuff, my heavy enameled pots, my double boiler, my spaghetti pot, my steamer insert and then there's the frying pans ... but fortunately you have a good-sized pantry nearby.

- Is the baking station scootched up next to the pantry? I'm not 100% sure I'm reading this accurately. I think I'd bump this area out towards the dining area; it doesn't need quick access to the sink ... not in the same way cooking dinner does. I think I'd want to use this space for main-cooking-area. Since you're planning a baking area, I assume you have a stand mixer? Will it stay out on the counter?

- Future Steam Oven. I'm confused now because I can't find the double ovens that were mentioned in the earlier plan. Are you really planning three ovens? Why?

- I'm still in favor of one good sink. I'd rethink the double bowl sink ... most everyone on this website will advise you to go with a single bowl. It'll allow you to more easily wash large pots and pans -- and, again, since you're doing a separate baking area, I'm assuming you use large baking sheets frequently. You can always use a large pot or a dishwashing tub to make a large sink small ... but a small sink can never be a large sink.

- The dishwasher moved from its spot on the island in the original image?

- This is a small thing, but I'd bump kitchen linens over to the side /secondary cabinet run ... they don't need a spot on the island. Likewise, I'd reserve island drawer #9 for sharp knives, cutting boards, and other daily-use prep tools (these things don't show up on your plan anywhere) that you'd want near the sink ... and bump serving dishes over to the side /secondary cabinet run. You want your constantly-used things to be nearest the sink, prep area and stove.

- You have one single base cabinet for silverware plus everyday dishware. Okay, I like to switch up my table, and I have way more dishes than the average person, but this seems skimpy.

- Things I don't see on your plan -- and maybe I just can't read it 'cause it's small: Small appliance storage, microwave oven, casserole dishes, canisters, aluminum foil /plastic wrap /ziplock bags, trash cans, paper towels. You mentioned a place for a coffee pot ... does this area include storage for coffee cups, coffee, and creamer, etc.? And I already mentioned sharp knives, cutting boards, and other daily-use prep tools.

15' tall cathedral ceiling

I ask again: Have you "walked through this" on some type of a 3D computer program? 15' is out of proportion to the human body and can feel like an elevator shaft. Personally, I saw a number of mistakes when I saw my plan in "walk through mode".

2 16" solar tubes that keep it lit better than a single window would have

I'm glad you're sure of your choice.
no garbage disposal as i'm on septic and they dont work well together according to my plumber and google.

True, but a bummer.
pocket door would be nice but those walls have plumbing and electrical in them.

Bummer. You could still have a pocket door ... it would require a thicker wall. Or, if you're the type to keep a neat, pretty pantry, you might forego the door. Or you could go with a split door (two narrow doors) and put them on swing hinges. Another smaller-footprint option is a bifold door. Regardless of the door you choose, I'd opt for an automatic motion-sensored light for your pantry.

i'm curious as to why you guys are insisting my kitchen is going to be so dark?!? just because it doesn't have a window? what do you guys all do at night?

Ample light is one of the big things that "makes" a room; however, since it's not something you can change at this point, there's no use in anything except ways to beef up the lighting.

i'm curious as to why you guys are insisting my kitchen is going to be so dark?!? just because it doesn't have a window? what do you guys all do at night?

At least 6 months of the year if not longer, it is still light when preparing dinner so I use as much as possible the natural light from my windows.

My apartment has no natural light and no matter what we do, it always feels like a dark hole. Even though it's dark at night, there is this feeling of lightness when there are windows.

I do appreciate all the concern for lighting. I would be willing to bet $1 that I'm getting more light through the solar tubes than I would get from a window over the sink.

Fallacy of forced choice.

also, I can always add uppers later with no problem.

That's a good point. You could also consider beams, which would "bring down the ceiling" to a reasonable height. Do note that your exhaust hood ends nowhere.

You're clearly pleased with the design. Best of wishes.

Is it perfect? Nope. Would I change get things if I were to.do it again? Yep. Am I happy with it, yep. Choosing a floor plan was a nightmare. My architect wasn't the best. I'm on a budget and doing this 90% by myself. Went through a forrest fire which devasted us. I don't have the luxury of dropping $50k on a kitchen or $10k on a kitchen designer. I live in a rural ass town of 1500 people so I don't have a lot of the same options of a lot of people.

Ahren,I hope you choose to post more as this project moves along. I'm especially interested in the art part;-) I hope the skeptics understand that sometimes the iconoclastic choice is the right one. Not for the many,just for the one.

You seem to have quite an attitude and what you don't realize is the majority of people who come here are probably in your situation. On a budget. Sometimes on even a tighter budget. And dropping $50k on a kitchen or $15k on a kitchen, we all have limitations.

As for options, there is this little thing called the internet.

BTW: I just flagged your last comment because I felt it was abusive.

See that's where I believe you're wrong. You're taking the criticism personally. She didn't call you an idiot. She didn't belittle you. Yes she said negative things about your design and she did call you hardheaded. But that's because she's seen poor design over and over, and she is seeing it again.

What we see over and over on these threads are people who come on and are in love with their design either because they designed it themselves or they found it online or they just tweaked is and have looked at if for a long time and can't see anything else. They come on looking for validation and then get incensed when they don't get that pat on the back.

Sophie has commented a few times on my issues with my build and honestly? My house is better for it. For her commentary, no matter how strongly worded as well as everyone else's.

It's one thing to come here and have a valid reason for following or not following good advice but too many times it's just because the OP "likes it the way it is". And that's what you're sounding like. Notice I haven't commented on your kitchen at all? Yet all day today I was helping others.

Sophie has forgotten more about kitchen design than most of us (even pros!) will ever know. Your attitude is showing...it's not pretty.

Walk away, folks, walk away. The OP's mind is made up.

Sophie is a troll, just look through "her" posts. 100% negative and wrong a lot.

Mrs Pete I will walk away after my final comment.

Sophie has as I said commented several times on my threads and never was she negative. Blunt? Yes! Negative? No. Right? Yes.

And yes, she's given me some excellent suggestions too.

Sorry but in this case the problem is YOU.

I'm out of here. You're not worth my effort.

I can write Sophie's posts because they're most often quite simple. "Your kitchen will cost $100k when you hire the designer you must have to go forward from here." But the problem is I can't do it as caustically as she. That is her true #1 talent no matter what else she has forgotten about anything.

I don't consider a window necessary or even desirable in a kitchen when the kitchen is part of a larger open space with plenty of windows with views. But 450 lumens on the work surface is recommended to correctly light up what you're working on. Sharp knives are part of the mix. Here's the Juno pdf that shows led 2" recessed lights with up to 35* of tilt to deal with a sloped ceiling. I'm seeing these for the sink run but probably not for the range run.

Can someone point to one bit of criticism from sophie thats actual relevant to the thread?

Every criticisim or suggestion thats posted has been discussed with my partner. (Saloon style doors to pantry, kitchen linens, cups near fridge, single vs double basin sink, etc)

sophie added literally nothing but generic criticism with no suggestions or explanations or even any mention of anything specific about my plan that was so horrible it can't be fixed.

As for lighting, i'd love to discuss it, especially undercabinet/shelving lights and island peninsula lighting as i haven't even figured out the exact lights i'm using, so i'm not sure how its decided that what i'm doing is wrong.

those juno lights look amazing. if i could afford $120 a piece can lights (from my quick google search) i'd be all about installing them!

Yes I agree. There has to be a way to get 11 watts(or less dimmed) to an led bulb in a less expensive way. It's possible.

If you use the least expensive 6" recessed can fixture for regular A19 bulbs a 100w equivalent led from Costco will screw right in and give you 1100 lumens for $4 or so per bulb. The can is maybe $11-15. Just not 2".

lizz...

can't move dishwasher at this point. left of sink is wired for a future steam oven/microwave (yuck). good idea though

i dont mind the criticism if it's specific and examples are given. Being told that my design is doomed and unfixable or however sophie put it (now her post isn't visible to me any more... may be deleted it?) is frustrating... as is people tearing into my lighting which isn't even presented here.

I love getting negative constructive feedback. I'm not here to be told my design is perfect, my girlfriend is great at that. she hates me researching this stuff. I want to know why i didn't want my fridge tucked in a corner, why i didn't to have an entire line of uppers... etc... all things explained in a post i made months ago.

some of my inspiration came from [Socci's Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/modern-walnut-kitchen-v-long-many-pics-dsvw-vd~2670263)

Besides sochi's reveal, did you also read some of her planning threads?

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/2595975/advice-on-modern-kitchen-layout-counters-etc

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/backsplash-help-for-modern-walnut-kitchen-dsvw-vd~2536708

Because those threads illustrate the give-and-take and flexibility that go into a successful kitchen. Unfortunately I don't think the archives here go beyond 2010.

One difference I've noticed between 2010 or so when I first came to GardenWeb and recent years is that people then spent much more time working on their kitchen layouts, posting multiple times and going back and forth, gathering information and suggestions, making changes, and all that time gave them a chance to get to know each other. By the time the kitchen was underway, you had a whole group of people invested in someone's kitchen and cheering them on. Now people come here with a layout and aren't at all interested in any suggestions that might improve the layout and/or are starting demo yesterday so there's no time at all for any changes, just a quick pat on the back and a "You do you!"

Good luck with your project.

You refuse to change anything that makes a difference in the result, so why bother posting?

But, the range should go directly under the peak as the focal point, with some open shelving around it. The cleanup sink on the same run, with dish storage above. The refrigerator, microwave, and other small appliances on the counter on the right. Or if you can’t change plumbing locations, main sink on the island, and a secondary beverage sink next to the fridge in the wall to the right, with the afore mentioned small appliance storage.

But you won’t change anything, so why bother soliciting suggestions?