Ahren, do you have a layout to share with us so we can comment and answer your questions?

i know there's no window. there's (2) 16" solar tubes just for the kitchen, a bright LED strip light over the island, plenty LED lights in the ceiling, under shelving lights for the counters. no uppers, there will be a shelf that runs same height as range hood, much like sochis (spelling) kitchen. We have tons of art for the walls and shelves. the kitchen decor wont be bland.

So your refrigerator is about 17 feet from your sink? Wear comfortable running shoes.

Decor doesn’t solve Bad Design. Not liking the message doesn’t invalidate it, or the messenger.

You could always pay for professional design help if you don’t like the free help that you get here and other places. Even IKEA offers some limited design help. But you have to pay for that too. TANSTAAFL

Ahren,

I see nothing egregiously awful about your layout above. However, I think you have a duplicate post with a different layout that is particularly bad.

That said, looking at the organization you have already assigned to each cabinet, I do not see where you are storing potholders and kitchen towels. I keep mine near the cooktop and oven. Since you have cabinet 7 as unassigned maybe put them there.

Why are you going to store "junk and garbage" in the glass front cabinets 10a and 10b? Or is "junk and garbage" a playful term for "collectibles?" :)

I don't have a prep sink, but I have had a 24" main sink. It was a really nice size for dishes and should be more than adequate for prep. My lone kitchen sink is 33" Kohler Riverby. It is huge! And it comes with a few accessories if being used for prep/cleanup.

Hope this helps.

Ha! As I suspected, lol.

Perhaps you can store drinkware in cabinet 7 also. It is pretty far from the dishwasher, tho.

The work triangle is too large, it will be more work than normal to cook in this kitchen. Who will be cooking in this kitchen, you or your wife?

Mark, according to the cabinets he's showing above, there is a prep sink on the island. The layout in his other post doesn't have a sink on the island, iirc.

No sweat, Ahren. In your other post, you have a sink on the island, but it was the only sink. I still don't get the comment about the work triangle being too large. It looks to be about 5.5 feet on each leg of the work triangle, which is pretty darn efficient, imho.

I think Mark has a blind spot for your prep sink. Your work triangle looks great.... if anything it is on the small side.

Where is your trash/recycling?

A 32" sink is huge. Even 25" is big. Go to a store and get a feel for sink sizes. You may find that you are fine with a 18" or 16" prep sink. Smaller prep sink means larger storage drawers.

Robin - Do you know what a work triangle is? The recommended minimum and maximum perimeters?

mark, you're missing the island sink. each leg is 5-6' long. as the kitchen layout FAQ suggests, cleanup is separate area from prep and cooking.

ahreno, you are missing the dishwasher sink. If the dishwasher sink will never be used in the function of the kitchen then it should not be a point of the triangle, but why is it there?? Why not move the dishwasher and it's sink to the island and eliminate the prep sink?? It would make for a more efficient layout. Why does that other part of the kitchen exist??

Unless the lifestyle of the cook dictates differently, the points of the kitchen work triangle are the center of the refrigerator, to the center of the cooktop, to the center of the main sink. Just because a prep sink is added to a kitchen does not mean the other sink can be ignored. Put the main sink as a point of the work triangle and place the prep sink along one of the sides of the triangle.

to me, the main sink will be whats referred to as the "prep" sink. all the cooking etc will be done there, dirty dishes stacked off on that side. after dinner, they'll get a quick spray and thrown in the dishwasher right next to it.

alternate is to have one sink on the island (my original plan)... if we were responsible adults that cleaned up immediately, this would work great... while i try to clean as i cook, my partner not so much... we'd end up with our island sink stacked with dirty pots and pans and plates etc. sometimes overnight, sometimes over two nights. with a separate clean up sink, at least its off to the side?!? There seems to be differing lines of thought on this. The Work Space FAQ that gets referenced so often here says:

• Cleanup Zone...works best when separated from the Prep &
  Cooking Zones. This can be on the
  opposite side of a one-sink kitchen from the Prep Zone or it could be in a
  completely separate location (the latter usually only works well if you have
  two sinks). Obviously, it also needs a
  water source and the DW.

::shrugs::

ahreno, I think that's a good layout, and one that's often suggested in the Kitchens forum. Do you have a dedicated trash pull-out?

Mark Bischak, I'm not an architect, or even a KD, but IMO that layout is very efficient, especially if there is more than one person working in the kitchen at the same time (and these days, with two people working outside the home, there are often two people working together in the kitchen). The cook can be prepping or cooking, with everything conveniently at hand. A helper can be loading or unloading the DW, or gathering dishes to set the table, without crossing into the cook's work space. Or, the helper can be assisting in prep, with his own water source.

Good explanation ahreno.

Mark, not sure you understand why anyone would have two sinks... Normally the primary sink in the triangle is the prep sink because of the Ice, Water, Stone, & Fire rule. Here is a post explaining it: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first-dsvw-vd~2699918

Many many people have 2 sinks.

Mark is quite correct in that a cleanup sink shouldn’t be a pack your backpack day trek from the action, or it will never get the dishes tossed into it from prep. The cleanup sink in this design is too far and around the corner from the actual kitchen work. Including the primary and secondary spots that generate the dirty dishes. The dirty prep will all stay on the island. Because: human nature. As will the pots and pans from the range. It’s one of the curses of bad design and a much too large kitchen. Especially with just 2 people using the space. Too much space, and in the wrong spots.

The better option would be the main sink in the island, and turn the other sink into a beverage sink, with the fridge there. Then the range and hood could be properly centered under the peak, as the major focal point that it should be for the whole section of the house.

But this is all academic, since no changes will take place because Cart-Horse and stubbornness.

Sophie, you are wrong. The cleanup sink does not belong in the middle of the cooking zone. Why are you guys ganging up on Ahren? Stop being such a bully.

Ahreno, build it the way you have planned. Good luck.

zmith - Thanks for your comments, it exposes what you are.

zsmith, how long have you been a Kitchen Designer? BArch maybe? Are you a NKBA member? AIA? Did you offer input into developing the NKBA Design Guidelines? Do you even own a copy? Did you attend culinary school? Home Ec? Can you discuss the effects of mis en place on organization and workflow? Or any one of the storage strategies pioneered by UVA? Tupperware even? I’d be happy to discuss computational workflow studies with you if you are a fellow professional who has not read the literature. Or lived it.

This one’s for you. [https://www.houzz.com/discussions/in-this-forum-everyone-is-a-designer-so-they-think-dsvw-vd~5403012?n=256[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/in-this-forum-everyone-is-a-designer-so-they-think-dsvw-vd~5403012?n=256)

Gramma don’t need to be told how to roll her wheelchair.

I just am in stage of ABB in my new kitchen and soaked up the wonderful advice on this forum. My new kitchen is amazing and so thoughtful. I personally would not like my dishwasher that far away from my stove and prep area. Thanks to people here and I really try to use my DW more, including throw stuff in as I cook to keep my kitchen a bit cleaner before we eat. I would think the extra steps to get to DW will drive you crazy (even if you have dish cabinets right next to the DW). Can you move it to island instead? Your work triangle, in my mind, is very large. A lot of it just based off of distance from fridge to dishwasher/disposal, not necessarily the prep sink...just because also it is not a straight shot and you have to go around the island and "turn" to get to sink/DW....I cook almost every night and do most of my dishes...so I am just envisioning the steps. My Fitbit friends would not like this layout because of all the extra steps I would get in every day. :0) It might be too late but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents here.

Sophie and Mark - I am surprised to see you engage in this thread and spend time on it. They have rejected your free expert and experienced knowledge. Then leave them to it. They are just strangers on the internet - it's not like they're your sister or daughter who is spending all her savings on a new kitchen to cook for her kids for the next two decades. Why care so much? As Hamlet said: "For 'tis the sport to have the enginer / Hoist with his own petard".

It’s all about the lurkers organizing their space, or thinking about their builds. It is for their benefit.

I’ve known this was a lost cause since the first post where he was trying to not have to put a roof on his project and quit working on it through the very mild CA winter. He wouldn’t listen then either.

Is your fridge a built-in or a counter depth? If counter depth, be aware that it will stick out past the counters so beware of your aisle width once you factor in handles and counter overhang. (I don't see a measurement for the aisle.) Also be aware of the wall to the left of the refrigerator. Make sure you have clearance to open the refrigerator door fully. It looks like the wall is shorter than the depth of the refrigerator carcass; just make sure you keep those measurements in mind for the detailed plans.

I'm glad that Mark Bischak and Sophie Wheeler have explained their opinions, rather than delivering a one line instruction or criticism. Sophie, these are the longest posts I've ever seen from you. :)

There is evidently some history with these posters, before the plan posted above, but it's good to hear from the pros.

Since dishes are rarely taken from the fridge, directly to the clean-up sink or DW, I don't think it's so important to have clean-up near the fridge. I would probably clean up from prep and cooking in an opposite order from mise en place. IOW, put everything to the side, then clean up when cooking is finished, unless I had a helper in the clean-up zone, where I could hand off the used vessels and utensils--while he might also be helping with prep.

Sink and DW on an island is a popular plan, but another school of thought is that no one wants the dish mess/dish drainer front and center, and if the clean-up zone is off to the side, the mess is somewhat hidden.

I usually agree with Sophie, but in this case, I have to respectfully disagree. Mama Goose explained why very well.

IMHO, this is a pretty good layout - assuming the aisles are wide enough and the refrigerator is installed properly (see Chicagoans post).

I would add a trash pullout to the island either next to the prep sink or at the end of the island next to the Cleanup Zone. If you can afford the cabinet space, I'd recommend a 2-bin in the island for prepping/cooking for trash & recycling and at least a 1-bin in the Cleanup Zone for trash.

...

DW in the prep space...

With the DW too close to the Prep and Cooking Zones, it makes it difficult to have someone cleaning up or unloading the DW while someone else is preparing a meal.

Dirty dishes sitting next to or in the sink also make it more difficult to prep -- moving dishes around on the counter to free up counterspace for prepping or having to move dishes out of the sink to be able to wash veggies, drain pasta, etc.

I am one of those people Mama Goose mentions who thinks it's distasteful to have their post-meal or snack dirty dishes sitting on the island front and center and on display for all to see. Not everyone immediately loads the DW so there are never, ever dishes stacked next to the sink (and most who say they do probably do not in reality -- my mom and a friend both claim they do this -- but I can personally testify that neither of them really do! There are frequently dishes from throughout the day sitting next to their sinks. The reality is that they do it immediately after dinner, but that's it.)

I cook a lot and I would hate it if my DW were in the island and in my way!

In the end, it's up to each person, but most people will find that separating the Prep and Cooking Zones from the Cleanup Zone works better than putting all three primary zone in one small space, especially when there is so much room overall!

Sophie, can we discuss the effects of mis en place on organization and workflow or computational workflow studies? Sounds fascinating and a way better method of arguing.