Kitchen Reno Timeline or When Can I Start?!

6 years ago

We are planning a major kitchen / downstairs remodel for 2019 that includes an extension to the kitchen that will require knocking down a portion of an exterior wall. (We have to wait until then because that's when we will have the money. )Of course I've already done the fun stuff like flooring, colors, etc but my question is when do I start talking to contractors?

There are obviously a lot of budget considerations with a big project like this and I need to know if my fantastical ideas are even feasible. I have a decent sized budget but still, we did our patio last summer and spent 2x what I originally planned. What is the right sequence of events? And when do I start?

1) Do I spend a $1k or so now to get an architect to do a plan and then have contractors bid on that?

2) Do I call some design/build contractors to come out and give us a rough estimate? Will they not even want to come knowing our job is at least 12 months out?

What's the right way to go about this? This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for us and I *really* don't want to screw it up.

Featured Answer

caligirl5

6 years ago

I agree that ballpark estimates from contractors are likely very inaccurate before you have plans, but I think the contractor could help tell you if your budget is at all in the realm of possibility before you pay the architect. My kitchen was $82K, no addition but structural and exterior changes, lead based paint removal, electrical and plumbing upgrades in my 1915 home. I think paying for detailed plans before vetting your budget is risky.

Luckily your house is charming, kitchen seems a good size, and you have great taste so I think you have good options without the addition.

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Comments (21)

roarah
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
After seeing a few friends spend thousands on architect plans ( 1k is unrealistically low IMO) only to find out that in our area contractors per sq foot estimates were a lot higher than the architects estimates, I worked a bit backwards. My friends ended up moving for it was cheaper to find houses with larger kitchens and extra baths. We PAID contractors to look at our house, hear our ideas for a bath addition or too cnstruct a master bedroom in our unfinished attic and give rough estimates of what it might cost.

When we learned that only the small addition was within our budget, the attic expansion was twice as costly, we then had an architect draw plans. We gave these plans to the contractors we liked the most for true bids and then signed a specific contract with the GC of our choice.

We also paid to retain the architect's services to help trouble shoot when build realities did not always mesh with plans. We met with the first GCs atleast eight months before we signed a contract to move forward and then we waited a few months for weather and schedules to clear.

Expect a kitchen addition to cost a lot. My 103 sq ft bath addition with just mid range finishes and not even a tub cost well over 650 per sqft plus architect drawings and service fees. I live in Connecticut which has a high cost of living though.
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
I'm in the Midwest so hopefully cheaper. So your bathroom was $69k? Wow. That's pretty much my kitchen budget. I need to find that elusive money tree. Realistically, our small eat in kitchen has a good layout as is so if push comes to shove I would be happy with just an upgrade to the cabinets/countertops/floors etc.

Thanks for the reality check.
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Anglophilia
6 years ago
You are talking about moving an EXTERIOR wall as well as a kitchen extension and your budget is $69K? In what parallel universe do you live! In most LCOL areas of the country, a $69K budget gets you new appliances, floors, lighting countertops and cabinets...with it all pretty much in the same place within the kitchen - no moving pipes/electrical/gas etc. And at that price, you will not be doing SubZero and high end appliances or super expensive flooring/countertops.

Yes, I did my kitchen for under $30K but...a BIG "BUT" - I did not replace any appliances, I re-used my countertops and all the under cabinet lighting I already had, lighting in ceiling was already done, re-used kitchen sink and faucet, and hardwood flooring. In other words, cabinet removal, soffit removal and ceiling replacement (1/4" drywall), painting walls/woodwork/ceiling, old tile removal, new tile and installation, pulls, electrical re-installation and a new garbage disposal (plus plumbing fixture removal and re-install) is pretty much what I got for that price.

What you're talking about could easily be $150K.
roarah
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Louislinus, that 69,000 did include adding plumbing and sewer lines on a side of my house that did not previously have any, repairing front lawn, walkway and repaving my driveway due to trench work but even without those costs my small addition ran over 5ok.

I got lucky for my roof was newer and we could tie the addition roof tiles into the existing but if your roof is older you also need to add the cost of reroofing your whole house. We were also able to seemlessly tie new siding into existing but this can be harder if your house is brick.

Our house is older and I had planned to find unexpected issues but got lucky and did not have to touch my contingency fund but we did reserve 10% above our quote for potential unforeseen problems. So with any addition you must realistically expect to need to pay extra to tie the old and new together and to repair yards, interior adjoining rooms will often need repainting and driveways might need repairs etc. that will get damaged by construction and this is expensive.

As to doing a kitchen remodel with an addition using hired out contractors and not DIY I think your budget is very low. Do you need the extra space?
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
I think I should better explain. When I say “addition” what I mean is we have this odd situation where there is a side door and a very short hallway that runs parallel to the kitchen. The “hall” area is about 8’ long and 3.5’ across. We want to take down the wall between the kitchen and the hall to incorporate the hall into the kitchen area. To make it square we also need to push out an exterior corner wall about 5’ x 10’. Its only 50 sf so certainly not a huge addition but it makes an an odd shaped room square and more functional.
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
I had also been wondering how we were going to deal with the roof. We have a 2 story 1940 brick colonial and the little addition is only on the 1st floor. I think doing it as a conservatory might make the most sense.
Bri Bosh
6 years ago
You’re talking about making exterior changes (is the house siding? Brick? Stucco?) as well as roof changes. You will need to have foundation poured, structural engineer hired ( you’re also removing an interior wall. You need to make sure this doesn’t change your roof load). You’re probably already at $50k MINIMUM. That’s before any of your new cabs, appliances, new flooring, plumbing, etc., for not much square footage added. You will likely not recoup much of your expense on this addition. Just something to think about.
Anna S
6 years ago
Does the wall you plan to take down have plumbing or gas in it? If so, moving those functions may require filing plans, approval, inspections, etc. and using licensed professionals - and it will certainly cost more than using existing locations. Similarly, if you plan to move these things on other walls, it will also cost more.

I just spent about $60,000 redoing a kitchen with no moves, no new appliances, except for a panel ready dishwasher, custom cabinets, Pental quartz countertops, etc. in an expensive area, but done by a fully licensed handyman. The major costs were the cabinets and the handyman.
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Flo Mangan
6 years ago
I don’t want to pile on, but you have a research project to do. It isn’t the small amount of sq ft it is all the challenges this presents. With a house that age, if you haven’t upgraded your wiring you might run into having to update to current codes and that can be huge expense and you haven’t done anything. So, if after all this feedback, you still want to try this, start with giving a good architect in your area who has done remodels in your area a retainer to begin developing a plan. That will cost at least $5k. It takes time and a good architect will spend time coming to your home, doing a good inspection, measure and get a current survey. He/she will verify set backs to see what is feasible. And that is just for starters. Many meetings to discuss what you want will be required and that is time consuming as well. And on it goes. No contractor will give you any viable bid without architectural drawings. So, you need this coming year to begin the process. The easy part is selecting tile, paint, other finishes etc. The more detailed your planning is, the closer you will come to your desired outcome and to your budget. As a part of your research, interview at least two real estate agents in your area and get an understanding of home sale comparable to determine if the cost of what you intend would be recoverable if you sold. Selling this home and moving into a home that works better for you could be a better use of your money. Look at all your options so you make a rational, well researched decision. Best to you.
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
I appreciate all the feedback but y'all are a tough crowd! Yes we for sure have a research project to do which is why I asked this question as a start. I think I said in my original post "fantastical ideas" so I know that some of these plans are magical thinking and it's the reason I came here to find out who I should meet with first.

I need to sit down with someone and tell them all the big dreams and then they can look at my house and tell me what's realistic. I'm trying to figure out who that person is. I still don't know.

We moved to this house because we didn't want to remodel our last house - an 1860 farmhouse. So I'm familiar with the concept of moving instead of renovating. I don't want to live in new construction I just want a new kitchen.

The kitchen is quite functional as is, it's just that the back hallway is a huge weird waste of space. It's like 30 SF just for the dog bowls. We could always make it the pantry. I'm not too concerned about resale as we are here for the long haul and are one of the less improved houses in the hood.

We went and visited some kitchen remodeler showrooms but I didn't get the feeling that any of them were a good fit for us and they obviously couldn't do a job the size of which we are dreaming.

So maybe I start with a contractor? Just to get an early opinion?
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
My apologies!!! I posted the above before having a chance to fully read everyone's reply. I tried to edit my post so it didn't sound so snarky but Houzz doesn't seem to let you do that (at least not on mobile).

Thanks for the advice. I've got some calls to make.
PRO
Flo Mangan
6 years ago
As i said, start with good architect. Someone from the area that knows local inspectors and has done remodels. A “contractor” wants a job. You find general contractor after you solidify your plans. “Ballpark” estimates are simply guesses and will always be off. If you have a tight budget this is very risky venture. If you can plan it very carefully and put a 20% contingency into that budget for unexpected items then you might come out ok.
roarah
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
I think you can certainly redo a kitchen and change interior design of non structure walls with in your budget.

As to architect first, it can be lost money, I know at least five people who were mislead as to real costs of projects by the architect who still got their up to 7k for unusable plans. Look at how many times houses are sold with architect drawings for possible expansion. Architect first is the better way for unlimited budgets but yours is already a tight budget.

a kitchen designer might be able to work wonders with your existing floor plan. It is structural changes and bumpouts that eat up budgets.

my ball park estimates from contractors were less than 5% off without plans and they were all higher than my actual true cost of finished project. The savings were because I ended up 86ing things like tub, curbless shower and Safire glass.
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
We did a big patio job last summer and started with a landscape architect and ultimately didn't end up using his plans. Instead going with the design our contractor put together. I'm going to post a picture of this hallway situation so it's more clear what I'm talking about. I'd love to be able to work within our current footprint.
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
This is the "interior" wall that I'd like to take down. I'm sure it's load bearing and will require one of those LVLs.

This is a view from the kitchen window and you can see how it would make sense to connect the kitchen to that exterior wall and lose that door. This is a shot from the outside and there's two exterior doors - the original one that's recessed and the other one that was added later and opens to a large mudroom. There is another door on that you can't see that leads to a large mudroom. I want to just box that exterior corner in but I hear you all that it will be very expensive. So if I can deal with the existing footprint do I just leave the twin doors?

Here's a few more pics of the kitchen layout.
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
From the living room - we'd like to make the doorways a bit larger too.
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
I'll stop with the photo spam now. :)
roarah
6 years ago
Love your milk glass in the dining room, is it original? I am looking for an appropriate fixture for my 1920s dining room.

your house is lovely, love the colors! That is a big eat in kitchen for the age of your house.

Am I understanding correctly, you wish to box in the area behind the grill? The window would be lost? Conservatory style additions are lovely on old brick houses but can be problematic if not installed perfectly and are hard to heat and cool and lots of glass to keep clean. I think a kitchen planner could do a lot with you square foot and come up with a creative way to incorporate the back hall too.
louislinus
Original Author
6 years ago
Roarah yes the milk glass is original. I have a love hate relationship with it. And yes you've got the idea right on what I want to do with the conservatory space. Basically box in the area where the grill is. Besides cost the other downside is that it might be weird to have that on basically sitting on the driveway. Not exactly a great view.

I thought (maybe stupidly) that it would be easier than a regular addition because it doesn't need to tie into anything else. It's supposed to look like an add-on. If I did do something like this, I wouldn't do windows all the way down for two reasons 1) I'd need bottom cabinets along some of it and 2) no one needs a view of my driveway. :)
roarah
6 years ago
That would look lovely. You should try pricing both options out and than decide if it might be worth waiting and saving a bit longer for your project or if you would rather compromise and have a little less than your dream kitchen but have a nice new kitchen sooner and with more in the bank for dinners out and retirement funds.

Also if your love hate relationship with your light fixture ever turns ugly and just to hate let me know I will buy it off you!
louislinus thanked roarah