I really think kids should have some control over who they want for friends (or not), as long as the kids are people you want him to interact with. I would think trying to force inclusion in an existing group of friends (his buddies) might be really hard for the new boy and unfair to your son to be put in the position of bringing someone new into the group.

Maybe for a birthday party or something where there are lots more kids are included.

I agree with Oly. I understand where this mom is coming from. For whatever the reason, her son has not been able to connect with peers. She is trying to get the ball rolling, so to speak.

This hasn't happened exactly the same way, but, I do remember a time when my youngest had a lull with playdates. We brainstormed and looked at the class directory and she picked a classmate or two that she wanted to approach. But, this all came FROM her. We hosted the playdates and one thing led to another and she was back out there.

I would be honest. I would email: Thanks for thinking about my son, but Johnny arranges his own playdates. I will let him know that your son is interested in future playdates. Socializing at this age can certainly be hard.

I'm sure others here can come up with a better way to word it. The main point being:

As Oly states, I really think kids should have some control over who they want for friends (or not),

Since she didn't give you specifics, the underlying tone is that she is being cautious and hoping that you then make the first move. She could have said, Timmy would like to have a playdate with Johnny. And then invite Johhny!

Yes, in a perfect world it would be great to be inclusive. And, the idea of having him over with the other buddies seems good on paper. But, it could also go wrong for many reasons.

Side story: as a GS leader, I always encouraged both my DD's to invite all the GS members to their parties. On two occasions, these kids created issues at the parties.

In retrospect, I should not have encouraged this. In reality, these same girls did not always include my DD's and again looking back, rightly so.

I am sorry this is turning into advice that goes contrary to your intention here. I agree with all those who suggest finding a way to invite this boy to some sort of activity. My heart breaks for children who feel excluded and it is such a great opportunity for showing a child how to look out for classmates who could use a lift. The new boy need not become a best buddy. But since his mother felt desperate enough to ask for your help, I am inclined to offer a hand.

While I also think the kids should have some influence over their own circle of friends, there is also a time to try to be kind. Is there a way to invite a small group for pizza and a movie or take them out for a pizza outing or something similar to get to know the other boy? Is the other boy new to the entire group? Something of a short duration on a one-time basis seems reasonable. Then if it doesn’t work out, you’ve tried and can decline next time.

Following along. I've typed and deleted a response three times! This is just one of those crappy things and I don't have the answer for the right wording. I agree with Oly about not forcing friendships but on the same page I also think it could maybe be a good opportunity about being kind to others. I don't know. I do really like the ice cream idea.

Some great ideas here, especially the ice cream meet up. I have a bit of a different perspective to share. Though I came up well before play dates were a thing, my mother, who is as social as they come, the polar opposite of me, was constantly trying to force me to play with people I had zero interest in playing with, hanging out with and talking to and - surprise - it never worked out like she wanted it to, I never had fun and I'm sure I was a bona fide PITA who complained all the time about being forced to play with people I didn't like or didn't want to know.

I also feel for the kid, if he wants to be social and just doesn't click with people, that's difficult, I'm just saying that maybe the mother is pushing this, mine sure did, so maybe it's not the kid at all.

How did she get your email address? I think these things should be talked about on the phone or in person rather than in emails, and either the mother is close enough to have your phone number or she isn't. I would not put anything in writing - I think you should speak with the mother, and then it will be easier to make your feelings known without putting a commitment one way or the other in writing. Putting it in emails draws it out too much and makes it seem too important but impersonal. If you are speaking with the person, then you can show compassion in your voice, but that is difficult to do in emails.

We're lucky enough to have a park adjacent to the elementary school. That makes it easy to say "let's meet at the park after school and see how the kids get along". This also requires both parents to be available after school. When a kid's parents are working (or dealing with other kids), it's really hard to set up something casual. A weekend official playdate is a big deal!

I don't know how to answer the email but I understand the awkwardness of the situation. I assume you're not in a position where you can meet the mom after school (most people aren't!) for a casual chat in person with the mom or have a super informal hangout on the jungle gym for 20 minutes or anything.

I just want to go back in time and hug schoolhouse and tell her she's awesome and it will all be okay! :-)

ITA catty, who says that to a child? WTH?

I agree. Lots of mean people out there, unfortunately. Yes hugs to schoolhouse.

I would say in the email response that you prefer to discuss this in person.

Its very hard to "read"' the possibilities -- maybe I misunderstood, but it doesn't say the child asking for the playdate has few other friends. The child could just be focusing on the OPs child at the moment. Its nearly impossible to know what is going on in that other household.

I am wondering if the emailing mom left the request "open" without any specific dates -- maybe she is not super interested in setting up an actual playdate either, but sent the email to pacify her child's request?

Alternatively, is it possible to find out a little more information from another parent, or even the teacher?

There are so many aspects -- reaching out to other kids to be nice and friendly and open to the possibility of meeting new friends; weighing the thought -- no means no, and ought to be respected that your child can choose his own friends.

It's definitely a challenge how to say no conclusively (but hopefully not burning any bridges, you may get to cross paths with that child/family for another 10 years). Good luck!

Some of this is definitely a matter of perspective. My oldest had some developmental delays and so play dates always felt a little fraught to me. I still remember one kid in preschool that ds asked for a play date with. I arranged it and then my ds was sick that day so I had to cancel it. His mother refused to reschedule saying that her son did not want to give mine another chance. That was really hard to explain to ds, who asked several times about it. So unless there is a negative history, I tend to err on the side of giving a kid at least one real opportunity to see if they have fun together.

The park was always good for us for this because if the kids really weren’t getting along they could play separately and it was easy for parents to declare the adventure over—harder to do at ice cream or the like where you feel obligated to sit together and stay until everyone is done eating or finished with a particular activity. Also easy to invite a group of kids.

If the bottom line is that giving your child control trumps the idea of having the kids get together once to give it a try, I think it is probably best to just say so. “I talked with Johnny and he does not want to play with Jack.” I do think that is better, as the OPer says than stringing things along with no intent of ever getting together.

The girl's mother said I was "too immature" for her daughter. Well, I did like to pretend I was a horse, so I probably did come off kind of strange. : )

Oh schoolhouse, grown ups can be so mean. I am sorry.

In 6th grade a few of us were super horsey and fashioned bits and bridles to wear during recess. It was weird.

Add me to your horse fantasy! But everyone knew I was odd anyway so the horse thing didn't make any difference.

I would speak to your son very thoroughly about this. Back in the day DD#1 had a birthday coming. I planned a party. I invited all the girls I had heard her talk about playing with. Turned out one of the girls was not in favor with most of the other guests. I still feel bad this one girl could have been very hurt. I guess it is a blessing she was so individual she didn't notice. I was totally turned off the other girls. A group activity could be dangerous--is all I am suggesting. After that experience, I am solidly on the side of children making their own friends. I would say to this mother just that. From that party forward it has never worked out well when parents choose playmates for their children.

We did that in 4th grade, Linelle! We used jump ropes as reins. (Did I spell that right? Looks funny!)

omg, Schoolhouse! So funny and sad too.

This thread is heartbreaking. I get both sides. I don't know the answer. We always erred on the side of inclusion, I mean the relative harm seemed to favor that.

I’m appalled at the idea that other kids being mean is a reason for my kid to exclude the target of that meanness.

A new kid whose mom is sending emails to try and get play dates for them might not have the people skills themselves or they could simply be distracted with an extremely busy work/life schedule so it’s generally not the best to do this arrangement by text. Text is impossible to read for tone. What it actually says and what one thinks it means don’t always match. I’d first ask your kid for a bit more detail on what exactly is the reason he doesn’t want to play with this boy - is he a bully? Or is he simply not interested in the same things?

My mom didn’t let me go play with a girl whose mom was divorced and always working - she did allow her to come over to our house, the girl decided it was too boring with no tv and never came over again. The girl did manage to be a mom at 14 though, so I guess my mom’s worry that there would’ve been no adult supervision if I was allowed to go hang out was not entirely unfounded.

One last thought - nobody likes to think of their kid being the bully, and some parents may imagine that if their kid is the target of a bully then having the kids hang out will be all it takes for the mean kid to see how awesome their child is and become friends. That’s not how it works in reality. Please be sensitive and really drill down for the honest details, listen to what your kid is saying. Whether they are the bully or the bullied, these years are your shot at teaching them to be better, kinder, more loving people as adults. Don’t let yourself ignore any issues or problem behaviors.

I agree with Mtn, we always included. I remember when ds was in 5th grade, a sweet boy with special needs was mainstreamed into his class. We live in a small town, so pretty much everyone knew everyone else, at least by one or two degrees of separation. Anyway, his mom got my number and called to say that her son really liked ds, and had been bugging her nonstop to invite him over. She said that she knew ds was into sports, and her son had been talking up a storm about playing basketball w/ds. She said she knew her ds could get overwhelming, and that she kept play dates relatively short. Ds hadn’t mentioned her ds, but I, of course, said yes, thinking that if ds didn’t want to go, it would be a good lesson in kindness, etc to hang out for a bit.

Turned out, ds genuinely had a great time, and they ended up being friends. Ds always included him in the games at recess, and we had him over just like all his other friends. Ds and his friends knew that sometimes this child would get overwhelmed and need to have alone time, and they just accepted it. Ds is a Senior this year, and at a different school, but every time I run into the mom, she always gets teary saying how much she appreciated my ds...and I always tell her how much *I* appreciated her letting ds get to know her great kid.

I guess you just never know how these things will work out...but I fail to see how being kind can ever be a bad thing.

It takes some parental involvement but @nini804, what you described is the ideal way things should go and in the end everyone benefitted! As sad as it is, things don’t always go that way.

A ‘mean girls clique’ requires parents to see and do something to stop it from hurting people. Ignoring the signs of troubled children doesn’t end well.

nini804, thank you. I wish I could like your comment a dozen times.

I hope amj comes back and clarifies some of this. She didn't say the kid was new, she didn't say he didn't have other friends, or that there were any problems with him. Her son only said he wasn't interested in a play date - but maybe there's more to it that she didn't say.

I think it would be different if the other mom had extended a particular invite, but a free floating fishing for friends for her son seems different for me. My grandson goes to a very small school where they stress relationships and kindness to all, (which he is). Most kids invite all the school to their parties, no one is ever excluded. But he isn't interested in play dates with all of them; we only invite the kids he wants to see outside of school. He is really busy and he IS overscheduled, so not interested in spending time with kids he doesn't click with. (or that grandma doesn't want to have to supervise, as there are a couple who have difficulty when limits are set).

Keep in mind the OP is trying to avoid the hurt feelings that may result from doing the easiest thing; i.e. saying yes but not really meaning it.

I would not judge others for how they handle this. It is not easy and we do not have all the details and nuances.

My son was on the receiving end of the kindness of being welcomed into a new group of friends. In grade 5 his current friends who had been his friends since kindergarten suddenly turned on him and started to bully him. Who knows why.

After being distraught about this and managing to get him through it he started to talk about needing new friends. He made some suggestions, we talked about how to phone them (I wasn't going to make the phone calls) and after a couple of "I'm busy" , one of them said sure, lets get together. The kids that became his new friends at that time are still his best friends at 28 years of age.

That experience showed us how important it is to say yes to a kid who is reaching out. Interestingly enough, one of the original bullies eventually called my son just after high school grad and wanted to reconnect. They have since become good friends.

Only you know the dynamics of your sons class and your sons personality and if he isn't interested then just simply decline.

Blfenton, your story reminded me of what my cousin's grandson went through. But, this boy is in high school. He started complaining about stomach issues and stayed home from school for days on end. They took him to specialists etc.

For whatever the reason, all his friend stopped being friends and it took a toll on him. He never discussed what happened.

He had to repeat the grade and now he is flourishing. Likes school again and has lots of friends.

But again, we don't know all the details and what part this boy played in the events that led up to the shunning.

It is heartwarming to read the stories that end well.

I have another ends well story-in third grade I moved to a new town and was severely bullied, from the teacher on down. I was awkward and probably quite unlikeable! Anyway my mom ran into this girl’s mom at the doctor’s office, turned out we were in the same class, and the other mom got her daughter to hang out with me out of pity. Pity or not it worked and she really helped me a lot, being pretty much my only friend the entire time I was in that town (thankfully only three years). We stayed in touch and hung out through high school!

That said I do think kids generally should be able to have preferences to make their own friends.

OMG, a bullying teacher? I can't even.

I was a real know-it-all so I was probably correcting the teacher’s grammar or something equally distasteful. I came from a school where I had been treated like a genius and in enrichment so it was a shock to come back down to earth!

I too was faking illness, or perhaps really did have stomachaches, to get out of school. Finally when my mom got tired of my theatrics she drove me the two blocks to school to make sure I went, saw what was happening (kids running away en masse and yelling taunts), she stormed the principal’s office and in turn my principal stormed the classroom. It really helped quiet down the bullying. I think adult intervention can really do a lot to mitigate bullying. Sure some of it will just go underground but a lot of the middle ground kids will really back off.

Thank you for all the honest opinions and stories. I’m glad to know that I’m not alone in being torn in this situation. I will try to answer all the questions to offer more clarity.

I’m not sure if this boy is new to the school this year. I don’t think he is. This is just the first year he has shared a class with DS. But even if he was new in September, it is now March so I’m not sure if I would call it “new to the class” anymore. His mom asked the teacher for my email address.

He is not a bully or mean. As DS describes it, they’re just not close. The other boy is not a loner either. He has friends in the class. I have emphasized with DS that he should be kind, even if someone is not his buddy. He follows that rule. Teachers have always told me how kind he is to all in his class. I’m very proud of him for that, as I know he has been in situations where it would be very easy to lash out and be unkind.

I have considered arranging something with a group of kids, at a public location where parents will stay too. In fact, this is what I am leaning towards. My only concern is that the other boy would be excluded by the core group of buddies. I know how hurtful that can be.

It really does need to be on a weekend. I don’t feel like my kids are overscheduled as individuals, but with 3 kids each doing one activity, we are constantly on the go as a family. Trust me - they would LOVE to play with a friend instead of going the practice or game of a sibling, but I will not let them go to the home of someone I do not know.

In my original post I mentioned that we have been on the receiving end of being strung along. It’s not fun. As a parent, I felt like asking the other mom, “Does your kid not like my kid? If so, please just tell me so I can steer my child in another direction.” I would NEVER say to my child that someone else doesn’t like him, but I would encourage him to make other friends. I used to tell him to invest as much energy in the relationship as the other person is investing in him. (Schoolhouse – I am weighing both sides of my situation closely because I would NEVER want to make a child feel the way you did. It is heartbreaking that an adult would say such a thing to a child).

Mtnrdredux – you nailed it. “Keep in mind the OP is trying to avoid the hurt feelings that may result from doing the easiest thing; i.e. saying yes but not really meaning it.”

Mtn, I can remember a few elementary school teachers that should not have been teachers.

As an adult, there have been a few people that really turned me off at first meeting but once I learned why they were quirky and their motivations, I let the preconceptions go and we became good friends.

In the same vein, have you noticed that when you get to know someone and find out they are kind and intelligent and thoughtful that they become more attractive?

So, I guess the point of all this is that it is often worth it to push through your initial perceptions of a person to get to know them.

What I don't quite understand is that 8-year-olds can be so busy and over-scheduled. I was a reasonably popular, well-adjusted kid with plenty of friends growing up in a small town and I remember my afternoons and weekends being wide open for anything. Except watching cartoons on Saturday morning. Thanks Mom.

I respect what your son is saying, but I also agree that it is important to make the effort to get to know new people. Would it be possible for you to look ahead in your schedule and find a group event to invite the boy and his family to? Little boys, in my experience, love running around in a herd. You can say something like, "Our schedule is full for the next few weeks, but we will be attending [insert group event here]. Why don't you sign up and we'll sit together?"

Or, alternatively, invite the family to try out an activity that your family participates in (a sport, a club, something sponsored by a local organization etc).

Last night I got to thinking I unabashedly hijacked amj's thread, sorry amj.

I agree your decision is rough and one I don't have any experience with as I never had children of my own. Do we coddle children too much or let them learn life lessons? Only a parent can relate. Good luck.

Those times changed when I started to raise my daughters. I came from playing softball and roller skating on the block with whatever kids happen to come out to play.

My DD's took a private lesson in something (scouts, dance, piano, gymnastics etc.) and usually participated one club or sport. They had time for playdates, but sometimes it was a challenge because some of the kids as you say were overscheduled. Some had two different activities back to back so you couldn't plan something after because it ran into dinner time.

Until I got to high school where I was attending an audition-required performing arts program of a school in a nearby high school district I had dance 3 afternoons a week several years and piano lessons on one afternoon a week. Going to that high school ramped up to every day m-f 2pm to 5pm dance and when we were preparing for a performance we had rehearsals on Saturday and Sunday too. Kids these days often have enrichment activities packed into the entire week after school.

Just to clarify - I don't think my kids as individuals are overscheduled. BUT, we have three kids who are active. My kids aren't old enough to be left home alone, so we all go to every event. We try to do homework at the practice of siblings to save time, but a typical week looks like this:

Home from school around 4PM

M - dinner, homework, DS1 practice 5:30 - 7, showers, fun time with dad (since he was at work all day), bed around 8:30

T - dinner, homework, DS2 practice 5:30 - 7, showers, fun time with dad, bed around 8:30

W - DS1, DS2 catechism 4:30 - 6, dinner, homework, fun time with dad, bed around 8:30

R - dinner, homework, DS2 practice 5:30 - 7, showers, fun time with dad, bed around 8:30

F - dinner, homework, usually a game in the evening and we try to go out to dinner as a family either before or after (depending on game time).

S - DS3 sports (also family commitments - visiting grandparents who are an hour away, etc.).

Add into that the schedules of the families we are friends with, and finding time after school is nearly impossible.

I'm sure to include the "fun time with dad" because it really is a highlight for my kids. We try to have everything done before he gets home from work (homework, showers, etc) so we can just enjoy time together everyday (a house of boys.... usually they are wrestling or throwing a football, but sometimes its a board game or UNO.)

schoolhouse - you did not hijack. No need to apologize. I feel like your story is very relevant to the discussion.

I actually teach my kids and before my own children I taught my students that you do not have to be friends with everyone but you do need to be kind to all. We can not choose family but we get to choose our friends so I try never to socially engineer children's friendships. I feel if a child has a preference to not befriend another child it is OK to allow him to just say, no thank you.

The mother has not even tried to invite you and your son over so you do not really even have to reply. If she actually offers an invite then and only then do you have to respond. At the time of that invite ask your son if he wants to play and if the answer is no a quick yet polite "sorry we are unable to, thankyou" is appropriate.

I suppose this sounds harsh but I prefered real friendships over forced ones as both a child and as an adult.

I do not however let my kids invite almost all a class but leave out a few kids to parties. They get to chose inviting under 30% or 100% but nothing inbetween. They usually prefer inviting only close friends to inviting all the class for birthdays and then prefer whole class year end pool parties.

Robo, we have lived parallel lives! When I was in third grade we moved in the middle of the school year, apparently pissing off the receiving teacher. Bullying is too kind a description for how she treated me. When the teacher openly despises you, not too many kids want to be your friend. It was a rough time for me and I never really made friends the 3 years we lived there.

amj-it really sounds like you just don't have time for many other commitments at this time!

Just so that parents know, teachers bullying children is not all that unusual. Add me to the list. Mine was in 8th grade (it was a k-8 school and I was new in 8th) and she wrote a horrible rec. for my high school application, basically calling me a social misfit. When I was finished with the interview at the high school, the nun who was interviewing me asked to see my mother. She told my mother what the recommendation said and expressed horror at the disconnect between what she read and what she saw. I was the only student from that school accepted into my high school in all honors classes and no summer school (so there ;-)

Good lord, did you not smile enough, or maybe she expected you to tap dance during book reports, maybe swing all nice and ladylike with the other kids at recess?! Social misfit is a horrible thing to call a kid no matter how it’s specifically worded!

When I was in elementary school, around 8 or 9 yrs old, my mom arranged several playdates with a rather strange kid. (His parents were super artsy and probably quasi famous in their professions and they lived in a cool castle). I felt awkward and later, as a parent, I vowed never to arrange playdates for my kids without asking them first (once they were in school), I get the part about wanting to include a friendless kid, but I also feel very strongly about infringing on my child's right to have their own reason why they don't want to have a playdate. The last thing I will ever do is make my child feel as though his/her voice doesn't matter.

If I were in the OP's place, I would do what she did; I would tell my child that so and so was asking about getting together for a playdate. If my child didn't want to, I would respect that decision. I would tell the mom the weeks are crazy right now, maybe we could revisit it again in the summer? or Fall? And then I would probably ask the other mom out to coffee, and learn a little bit more about her. There is always the chance that she was reaching out to meet the OP. Besides, coffee is always a good thing. :)

Jojo, what a good point. Socializing in those years is usually with other parents.