I wouldn't go. I would probably spend the wedding gift money on her daughter, instead of on her. Don't make a big deal out of why you aren't going. Just send your regrets. They'll figure it out.
Jo

Oy -- sorry to hear about this Linda. For what its worth, to me, your own words said it all -- "I cannot support this union." If -- and only if -- you receive an invitation, my best suggestion would be to write her a heartfelt letter in response. The goal would be to let her know you love and care about her, and because of that love and care, you cannot attend the wedding because you do not support her decision to marry someone who has been abusive and who you don't feel brings out the best in her. I think it would help to emphasize that you are not trying to deny her love for him, but reiterating that you just can't support her decision to marry someone who you don't have confidence will honor or cherish her.

To me, not attending the wedding doesn't make you the "nasty aunt at all, and besides which, if you are acting on your own principles, you ultimately can't control how other people interpret your actions. But a wedding is very explicitly about a community of people coming together to show their support for a couple's union. You very deeply (and legitimately) don't support that marriage, and so -- at least from my perspective -- I don't see how in good conscience you could attend.

Hugs, and hoping that your niece will eventually move through some of her problems and into a healthier place in her life...

Emily

I would go to the wedding and give them a gift ..like a book about marriage and a gift certificate. Though they will probably never read it, at least you have not been all negative from the onset of the marriage. There's not a whole lot you can do for these kind of people but in truth, you don't want to make them angry either. I know, I have one in my family. I sympathize with them about all their problems but don't enable them and try to have as little contact as possible.
Let the police be the bad guy in their eyes.

To Jo and Emily, I wonder if you have dealt with angry men with guns? I understand your posts and might have said the same thing at one time but having a volatile, ocd, manic depressive brother has made me very wary.
And, as I've gotten older I realize you can't change people. I prefer to be nice, kind and help people when they ask for help which happens eventually after they've screwed things up.

If a child weren't involved, and it wasn't family, I'd say 'bail'. That being said, every decision you make (IMO!) should be done through the lense of how it will affect your relationship with and ability to get involved to protect the child. If she gets back custody, would she withhold your visiting? etc.

And I'd give her '10 Stupid Things Women do to Mess Up Their Lives' by Dr. Laura, before the wedding. Not that she would read it.

Linda, stick to your heart. I would not go, but I would send a note/letter wishing her all the best and letting her know that there might be a safe haven if she needs it. No cash gift either, lord knows what they will spend it on.

Given their history, I doubt they could regain custody of the child either.

I wouldn't attend....in essence "give my blessing"...
I would tell her why....even before you are invited.
I spent lots of years preaching that living together and sex outside of marriage was a bad thing....but I suspect there is a lot of sex going on and making her responsible for his peccadillos won't make it any more moral.
A friend of my son's, whom I respect...or lets say respected, got pregnant by a very VERY unsuitable man. Her mother wouldn't "give her blessing" to the marriage, so they never married....and lived together ...mostly, he always either not working or working substance jobs....like 10 hours a week here and there. She got her degree and another and was making a good living and finally realized what a looser he was.....and changed the locks ( it was her house....she was 30 when the first child was born) and got a restraining order or a no contact or whatever.
she told me "thank God we never married or things would be a lot more difficult."
Don't go, don't bless the union but just be there for her when she needs you....because she will! write her a letter telling you will always be there for her but cannot support this marriage.
I give you permission to be the crabby aunt....and as far as the child is concerned....they don't have custody yet.....worry about that IF it happens.
Linda C

I think you answered your own question when you said you can't support her decision. To attend, especially after avoiding contact with her, implies approval.

If it were me, I would not attend. I'd wish her the best (she's going to need it), but just leave it at "I can't attend." No presence, and no presents. It's just me, but I would feel like a bloody hypocrite watching people take sacrad vows to love, honor and protect after knowing what's gone done already.

I don't know the situation beyond what you've described in this thread, but I say don't go. I wouldn't bother to explain why, as surely she already knows and pushing the issue would only draw you apart further. If they're registered anywhere I'd choose an impersonal gift off of their regristry, if possible one which would more likely end up in her hands in the event that they split.

Linda, I'm sorry you have to even think about this. It seems to me your first instincts are the correct ones, and keeping a low profile is best. I too, would send a card with regrets if a mailed invitation is forthcoming, but don't believe it requires any kind of gift.

I'm in the "send your love along with your regrets" camp. As you say, you can't in all conscience support this marriage, and your attendance would give your tacit approval.
An excruciatingly formal and unobjectionable (in that there's nothing to hang an objection on) response to a written invitation is:
"Doucanoue is honoured to receive the kind invitation of Mistaken Niece and Loser Boyfriend, and regrets she is unable to attend." Not _strictly_true, but close enough :-)

Interesting responses. Thanks.

The wedding isn't until October, I can only hope that she will see the light before then. Jessy, I am definitely going to look for that book....maybe send it to her anonymously.

I thought about a letter, but I really don't want to piss this guy off. Remember, he has a gun and obviously isn't afraid to use it!

There is a very good chance they will get the child back, unfortunately. She was sent to live in another state with her father. Around Thanksgiving we found out she was visiting his mother in yet another state. That grandmother flew here with her just before Xmas, and no one has tried to make arrangements since, to get her back to her dad. She is currently with my sister. She called the dad and asked if there was a problem, and let him know the child cold stay with her as long as necessary, and he said that was good, because he had "some things to take care of".

It all makes me ill. There is a lot more to this, but you get the idea.....

Linda

My mother has been sober for 29 years now. My sister over 15 and my brother for 17. Daddy and I are not addicts. But that said, we've all been through the program either as addicts or family support and the number one thing they tell the person recovering is change your playgrounds and your playmates. Meaning: if you don't change your habits and support system, you'll fail. She's on the wrong track going right back into the situation that got her where she was; wrong place and wrong people. I'm very sad for her. Maybe in your letter, you could remind her of what she's been hearing? I too am in the decline politely and wish them well, but not go group. Best wishes for a good outcome (not impossible, my sister continued to live with her husband until he finally quit. It took years (he's "only" been sober 10 years), but she didn't go back to drinking), and hugs to you (((Linda))) in the meantime.

-Robin

This is tough. My first instinct is to say don't go. On the other hand, maybe you should go and at least try to set a good example of how decent caring human beings behave.

The minute the reception turns ugly, just get your coat and go. Maybe that would send the message that if something is not tolerable, there is no reason to tolerate it.

My heart breaks for the child and it is clear example of how these situations are self-perpetuating. It's a shame her mother or grandmother is not setting an example of strength for her.

It's a difficult situation but I would say just don't go. You'll have a chance to help out your niece's child with gifts of clothing on her birthday and things like that, the rest is really out of your hands. I understand how torn you are.
Yes let's hope she comes to her senses.

good luck and keep us posted.

bumblebeez,
I have never had angry men with guns in my life. I consider myself fortunate. If I thought not going would provoke something dangerous to someone I loved, then by all means I would suck it up and go. But otherwise, I would not go as it would pain me greatly to watch and simply by being there, appear to condone the union.

But I do greatly respect the opinions of those who have walked in these shoes.

Jo

I think the wedding / marriage is the least of the problems here (but for the record, I'd say stay away inconspicuously).

That little girl needs a secure custody arrangement, & that doesn't mean living with a crazy man with a gun.

Can/will your sister file for custody?

& someone above had a good idea:
use your "gift" money to help take care of that little girl.

Linda, I'm with the "don't go" group. I wouldn't even bother to write a letter, your niece knows that you don't approve and will know why you aren't there, there's no reason to add fuel to the fire by writing anything.

Would I send a gift? That's harder. I might, but I'd probably send a gift to the daughter instead and just send a nice card with a note that the gift was provided to the daughter as a gift in lieu of a wedding gift.

Annie

FWIW, I agree with Annie in that I would not attend the wedding nor would I write any note/letter.

The letter would only provide you with an opportunity to vent; but not do any good, IMO, to alter your niece's course. She's setting & trimming her sails. Her compass is spinning; but it's been my experience, as a crisis counselor, that only a storm sufficient to rip the sails & snap the mast will bring about a bearing change.

Instead of a gift for the daughter, I'd open an investment account & add to it as your circumstances & desires allow. Over the course of the next 15-20 years a few thousand dollars towards an education will do her more good than a cute new dress today, again IMO.

I don't envy you. I've not had any experience with an angry man with a gun but I do have lots of experience with an angry man with fists and a baseball bat. That alone would keep me away from any "social" situation where he might be present.

/tricia

My heart aches for this adorable little girl, too. It is terrible to feel this helpless and to have to standby and watch her be passed around like a hot potatoe! I have written letters, made calls, anything I could think of, but there is nothing at all I can do about her situation.

This is the little girl we took in for a short time about a year and a half ago. When we told them we would be foster parents to her, we were asked if we would be willing to adopt her if the need arose. I told them I would have to think about it, as it would be a big step for a couple our age. They immediately crossed us off the list because they felt we should have jumped right up and said yes without any hesitation.

Needless to say I am not impressed with our county family & children's service department.

I am not sure what my sister can do. They eliminated her as a candidate for foster care back then due to her drinking habits. Those haven't changed.....

Linda

Tricia, we must have been posting at the same time!

I tend to agree with both of you that a letter would only help me, not her. As for an account for the child, that's a good idea, but she is already set in that department.

My niece's father died accidentally 2 years ago and left my niece a tidy sum. But it is controlled by his father, (her grandfather) and she has not gotten a penny of it yet that I am aware of. They are doing whatever they can to hang onto it as long as they can because they know she will just blow every dime. They have also set up a very generous trust fund for the child's future/college education.

I suppose another account wouldn't hurt, but it's not in the cards for us financially right now. Plus I have my own granddaughter that will come first when I am in a position to do that.

I have only met the loser boyfriend a couple of times and he has never been to my home (nor is he welcome here). Figure that is the safest.

Linda

October is very far away. One or both of them may be in jail before then. Maybe you don't have to worry about it yet.
I'm just worried that their marriage might be a step toward getting the child back.
Is the little girl's other grandmother able to raise her, and would she be good for her? She did raise the loser boyfriend, though...
It's all heartbreaking.
The person I'd be tempted to confront is not your niece, it's your sister. Like, "Step up, stop drinking, your granddaughter needs you." But with some people there's no getting through, and unfortunately I know that from my own family.

I'm so sorry you are having to go thru this. I hope things get better with them instead of worse.

I would not write a letter. I would go to the wedding to show her that I loved her, not as a show of support for the two of them. If you don't go it will hurt her, yet will not change her mind about marrying him, so not going will serve no useful purpose. I would go, let her see me and leave as promptly as possible after the ceremony before the guns/alcohol shows up.

Beverly stated my feelings well. Go because you love her. It serves no good purpose to punish her by boycotting. The hurt it might create could drive a wedge between the two of you. She needs nonjudgmental, unconditional support. You can let her know you love her even if you don't love her choices and behavior.

Life isn't clear cut or easy for some people.

I agree with Beverly and Barnmom - the posts right before mine. The non-judgmental support will let her know that you love her. I really think she needs that, she needs somebody to love her unconditionally. You obviously do love her, or else this wouldn't be such a difficult situation for you. Just hug her and tell her that you'll always be her Aunt Doucanoe and always love her and her daughter. She's an adult now and you don't have to agree with her choices.

And like some have said before, by October, the "wedding" might not even be a factor anymore.

That is well worded Beverly, to go because you love her, not because you are condoning her actions. I agree completely and what I would have liked to have said!

I had a similiar situation 15 years ago....against my better judgement "I went". The guy who was marrying my "un-named friend" very very close to my entire family, came from a looser trashy family. She came from great stock (father was a policeman) She was wonderful until this looser came along. She completly changed, although there was no substance abuse or alcohol on her part at all he was a BIG party animal and very handsome! So we went to the wedding he was late because he stopped at the bar with the guys in the Bridal Party...The bride sat in the limo crying...His mother is talking to me on the church steps she apparantly had a few and is smelling like rum..Finally the wedding starts priest comes out takes one look at the groom and says this will not be a High Mass (Catholics understand) Our family & close friends almost crawled under the Pew! He cut the ceremony to 10 minutes tops....And YES there was a brawl at the reception which started between Mother & Son who actually whacked each other several times before others stop that...on & On by cake time "the Bride feeds the groom lalala sing sing...his turned he smashed her in the face with the cake and almost knocked her off her feet at that point my Irish Temper family left because the guys were gonna KILL HIM!!! 1 very unhappy year later she got rid of him straighted out her life and is in a wonderful place right now....Him hes been in and out of jail and a Cocaine addict....That said if I would have followed my heart I WOULD HAVE NOT WENT! Good Luck in your decision

I am so very sorry about this situation.

The wedding is in October so you do not have to make up your mind today.
Let it play out.

The only advice I would give is to be on the childs side. If mom and fiance are not fit to have the child in their custody then you may have to make a call and let the social worker know of your fears.

I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

Peace!
Susie

Well, I don't know how to help people in a situation like this but it sounds like your neice is in an abusive relationship. I don't know much about this, but I have read that one of the things abusers do to "control" their abused spouses is limit their contact with friends and family. As awful as it may seem, cutting her off completely is probably not good, but also making it clear she has other options is also important. It also sounds like she and/or he may have substance abuse problems. So that plays into it too, encouraging your neice to "get out of the life" but also not enabling her. I suggest consulting a counselor. Lots of people have to deal with these kinds of problems in their families. You can't change the family member, you can only control what you do, not what they do. But also, completely cutting people off is often not an option. It's an easy, simple solution but often our lot in life is not that easy/simple unfortuantely. I feel for you because I know this must hurt a lot.

WOW , that's a tough one. Part of me says what Woodie is saying. Sometimes we need to show unconditional love, especially if there is a real chance that she may need to turn to you in the future and needs to feels safe with that.

On the other hand we can only do so much, give so much, before it starts to hurt us.

I have a brother who needs a lot of support.... and I mean a lot! I give it, but the tole on me is great and I really don't think I can do much more and still stay healthy and sane.

When it starts to affect your well being you have to draw the line. Trouble is deciding which is harder on you, giving the support or not.

Not easy by half.

I've gotta come back to the question.....and my "don't go" viewpoint.
This business of hers of hanging with an abuser a violent man a felon and being a drunk herself is an addictive sort of behavior.....and by attending the ceremony, you are enabling.
It's hard it's awful....but you don't need to make any of this easier for her, to in any way act like this union is a "blessed thing" and attend a lovely wedding like everything is fine and the people are responsible adults.
In support of a dear friend, I spent a week at Betty Ford, attending classes 8 hours a day with an evening meeting here and there...
I learned a lot about co-dependent behavior and enabling. I saw situations and heard testimony that made my head spin.....when asked why did you....whatever....give her money, put up with the abuse not report that to the authorities, I heard again and again....I love him or her and wanted to support them.
Support is not putting a pretty coat over what is ugly....
Linda C

I really don't see how attending this wedding could in any way be "enabling." It will in no way affect whether or not she marries this guy. If it helped her to marry him then that would be "enabling."

You give an alcoholic a bottle of whiskey and that "enables" him to drink.

Yeah, but if you sit down with them while they are drinking and pretend it's not happening, what is it?

I don't konw, just throwing it out there. It's a situation where everyone is going to have a differnet POV.

I wouldn't sit down with them while they are drinking, just being seen at a wedding that is going to happen.

Ahhh...see why I am so torn"? I have made all of these arguments in my head and still don't have an answer.

Right now I can only hope things change drastically before October.

I already have come to terms that there is not a damn thing I can do or say that she will listen to. Tried that already.

Guess I just have to wait and watch her hit rock bottom (which I thought had already happened). I'll be there if she needs me to pick her up and dust her off, but I just can't in any way stand behind her bad choices.

I have not totally cut off all contact with her, but I have stopped being the one to make all of the effort. I don't want to be around this guy....he's dangerous. I don't care what kind of sheep's clothing he puts on, he's still a bad wolf.

I appreciate all the opinions. Gives me a lot to think about for when the time actually comes to have to decide.

Linda

enabling isn't only helping the bad behavior, but it's putting a gloss on that behavior...like when I picked up my friend for a trip and she was so drunk she fell getting in the car and broke her arm......and instead of picking my phone out of my pocket and calling the ambulance to take her about 500 years to the ER....I took her to another town, because she would have been embarrassed to have people in town see her so drunk.....and an other time when she pitched face down into her plate at a dinner party....her DH said, we have to go now, She has not been feeling well.
Enabling is pretending that things are just great like normal people.....when you know it's all wrong....enabling is allowing her to have a big deal wedding, and marry a drunk and felon when you know it's the wrong thing to do.
You will be there for her when she tries to turn her life around....but you won't pretend she has turned it around when you know or suspect otherwise.
Linda....you are thinking right....you will no longer stand behind her bad choices, but will offer all the support you can when she finally has no where to go but up...
Linda C