When trying to fit an island in a kitchen, keep in mind the following...... (It's kind of generic, so there's probably stuff in it that you don't care about, but I wanted to be thorough!) First, the NKBA recommends minimum aisle widths of 42" for a one-worker kitchen and 48" for a multiple worker kitchen. However, many here swear a minimum of 36" will work in some cases*. So, here are minimum kitchen widths with an island: Island w/cabinets and/or appliances on one side and no seating: Minimum aisles* and no traffic: 25.5" + 36" + 27" + 36" = 124.5" (10'4.5") [basis of next numbers] For one aisle of 42" with Traffic b/w island & one run of cabinets (on larger aisle side): + 6" = 130.5" (10'10.5") For two aisles of 42" with Traffic b/w island & one or two runs of cabinets: + 6" + 6" = 136.5" (11'4.5") For one aisle of 42" and one of 48" (for frequent/heavy traffic): + 6" + 12" = 142.5" (11'10.5") For ideal aisles of 48" (w/multi-worker kitchen or frequent/heavy traffic): + 12" + 12" = 148.5" (12"4.5") Island w/cabinets and/or appliances on both sides and no seating: Minimum aisles* and no traffic: 25.5" + 36" + 27" + 36" + 25.5" = 150" (12'6") [basis of next numbers] For one aisle of 42" with Traffic b/w island & one run of cabinets (on larger aisle side): + 6" = 156" (13') For two aisles of 42" with Traffic b/w island & one or two runs of cabinets: + 6" + 6" = 162" (13'6") For one aisle of 42" and one of 48" (for frequent/heavy traffic): + 6" + 12" = 168" (14') For ideal aisles of 48" (w/multi-worker kitchen or frequent/heavy traffic): + 12" + 12" = 176" (14"6") Island w/cabinets and/or appliances on one side and an island with seating** (i.e., empty wall behind seating): With run of cabinets behind the seats and no traffic or counter behind seats: 25.5" + 36" + 40.5" + 48" + 25.5" = 175.5" (14'7.5") [basis of next numbers] With run of cabinets behind the seats and either traffic or counter behind the seats (but not both): 25.5" + 36" + 40.5" + 54" + 25.5" = 181.5" (15'1.5") With run of cabinet behind the seats and traffic and counter behind the seats: 25.5" + 36" + 40.5" + 60" + 25.5" = 187.5" (15'7.5") With ideal aisles: 25.5" + 42" + 40.5" + 60" + 25.5" = 193.5" (16'1.5") Island w/cabinets and/or appliances on both sides and an island with seating** b/w them: With run of cabinets behind the seats and no traffic or counter behind seats: 25.5" + 36" + 40.5" + 48" + 25.5" = 175.5" (14'7.5") [basis of next numbers] With run of cabinets behind the seats and either traffic or counter behind the seats (but not both): 25.5" + 36" + 40.5" + 54" + 25.5" = 181.5" (15'1.5") With run of cabinet behind the seats and traffic and counter behind the seats: 25.5" + 36" + 40.5" + 60" + 25.5" = 187.5" (15'7.5") With ideal aisles: 25.5" + 42" + 40.5" + 60" + 25.5" = 193.5" (16'1.5") Notes: * The "minimum" aisle width of 36" only works if the kitchen will always be a one-person kitchen and there is no through traffic in the aisle (i.e., no more than one person working in the kitchen at a time (this includes prepping, cooking, cleaning up, getting a snack, etc. and there will be no traffic going through the kitchen to get to another part of the kitchen/house). Some people have varying aisle widths. They'll have the minimum recommened 42" in most places, but 36" at one place (like b/w an island and range) where there will only be one person in that particular space at a time and no traffic going through the area. ** Assumes counter-height seating with 15" overhang, the minimum recommended by the NKBA. Please do not skimp on this overhang. It doesn't really help. People still take up the same amount of room when sitting at the island as they would if you provided the minimum overhang. People can be "squeezed in" just so much...the stool & their bodies will still stick out into the aisle just as much as if there was a 15" overhang. All you do when you skimp on overhang is make it uncomfortable for people to sit at it for more than a few minutes. To adjust to the reduced overhang, people have to sit sideways, "straddle" the cabinets, or sit further back and have to lean forward farther to get to the counter...none of which are comfortable after a few minutes. (If you expect people to sit sideways, then provide 36" of linear space per person rather than 24".) The NKBA guidelines were developed for a reason, not b/c the NKBA was trying to give us all a hard time. They also were not "grabbed out of thin air"...they researched this and other items in the guidelines. One more thing, if you think the shallower overhang will be OK b/c you only expect your young children to use the seating, then remember that children grow very quickly (ask any parent!). Before you know it, your children will be adult-sized teens and still trying to sit at the counter (and probably w/friends). So, don't be shortsighted when planning, look into the future as well. [The NKBA recommends an 19" overhang for table-height seating (30" off floor, note new overhang recommendation), 15" for counter-height seating (36" off floor), and 12" for bar-height seating (42" off floor). They also recommend planning for 24" of linear space per person for counter-height & bar-height seating; 30" for table-height (again, note new guideline).] One thing to note: Bar-height and, to some extent, Counter-height seating are not very comfortable for very young children, for older adults, and for those with certain mobility issues. They also are not the safest seating for young children (clambering in/out of the seat and even just sitting at the counter at a fair distance from the floor). So if you can, try to provide table-height seating fairly close as well.

Hello again. We've been investigating benjsbride's design. We had a builder come in and give us an estimate for removing the big wall. It is load bearing plus it had 3 HVAC lines in it. Since the wall has HVAC and there are no relatively easy ways to relocate the HVAC line we would have a 12"x12" soffit on the ceiling. Something we could live with considering the improvement we could get by removing the wall. The space that benjesbride had designated for the wall oven is also a load bearing wall and that one has water and drain for the upstairs bathrooms. We may forgo making that change and leave the closet as is for the moment. What we have now is show below in the image and also the linked plan. The left wall (when looking at the 2D image) has our builtins remaining that come out to 12" which should then be rather flush with the 12" wall they need to build for the HVAC lines. You can see this space in the linked plan. We end up losing the wall oven so what about placing it in an island? Is this type of thing even done? Overall thoughts on the updated plan? http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/US/UI/Pages/VPUI.htm?&LoadDesign=74dc074dc94e43cc8a346e583ec064ff&UIContext=SE_Menu&IsSharedDesign=1&Entry=Kitchen

I love you people! Seriously, you're amazing. Mama goose the first picture you have is an accurate representation of the beam and shelves I would like to have in the space. And my husband and I sat down yesterday to go over the whole thing again. This picture is where I would like to see those shelves and the distance between those sides is 223" if my husband and I measured correctly. The jut sticks out 6-8 inches. The next picture shows the exterior door and where the sink will be. The distance from the corner to the door frame is 110". This house was built in 1940s and had no insulation in the walls. This is the other side that we had the wall built out to eliminate the 2 inch angle where the plumbing chase is. That window is lower than the other two and the apron is approximately 30" from the floor. The corner to the window frame is 33". From that corner to the beam support is approx. 107-108" This picture shows the beam support sticking out. This picture shows where the refrigerator will go as you can see the ice maker hookup in the lower left. Between the framing for the HVAC is 27" on the right side, 27" wide, and it is approximately 55" on the other side, reminder that this is without drywall installed for these measurements. The framing for HVAC sticks out 20". The section of the wall to the right with the electrical box is 43 1/4" out. The exterior door frame starts at approximately 42" from that left corner. This is the other side of electrical box and where we intend to put an opening through to the other side, a dining room is on the other side.

How about this... Working off of your design with the range in front of the brick wall, put a floating little island (fold-down wings for extended surface?) next to the cabinet to the right of the range, along the wall. Do as AFritzler suggested and put the fridge near the dining room and the sink under the window. Now, with a wheeled island, you can pull it over to the fridge when it is time to pull out all of the fresh ingredients that you need. Then you may push the island to wherever it is convenient to chop, after going to the sink to rinse. Keep cutting boards, knives and colanders in the island. You can now chop watching the kids out the dining room window, watching something on TV from your portable island, or in a spot of sunshine or cool breeze - whatever you like. Then wheel the cart over to the stove. Have your spices on the island, too, and it will all be right there. Once everything is cooking, wipe off the island and scoot it back to its corner. Or you can put it at a 90 degree angle to the sink during washing up to have aan easy place to reach to set pots to dry. I had an island like this from Lowes. One side of the top folded up or down to increase or decrease the work surface. One end had pegs for hanging tools. the other end had a door with shallow spice shelves behind it. The front side had a door on either end and shelves in between them that went from front to back, so you could reach the kitchen towels I stacked there from either side. In your case, with all of your spice needs, you might want the backside to also have shallow shelves for spices, oils, and condiments (behind doors) and a work surface extension that slides out from under the stationary one.The white thing on the left is the island. Front.Here is the back, with fold-down top extension. This little island made this small kitchen usable before we remodeled it. Yours could be sized to fit right between the end of the counter and the basement door. You would have to scoot it out of the way to get to the drawers under your pantry, but that is probably okay. You could make it with standard cabinets on a sturdy base, or have it custom made with just the compartments you want. If you want a recessed top extension, Lee Valley might sell something like that. Your kitchen is wide enough to leave the island in the middle sometimes, too. It is just inconvenient to walk around a stationary island to go between the sink and range. That is why I am making it portable. You may also want to go with a counter-depth fridge, as Astrid C did in Her little SoCal Spanish Kitchen