Unless I'm missing something, it appears that all of the "extras" (with the possible exception of "lighting grounded by code" ... what is that?) are already included in the contract. Of course, a better contract would have provided more details, such as the number of outlets from the get-go. Since they did not specify a number, they can't charge you for five additional. In addition to what number?

Jellytoast - when i questioned the charges the response was:

The outlets to code means add outlets to the counter top as
needed to abide by code. The code states that an outlet needs to be every 4ft
on a ctop space. That is what is included in the contract.

The circuits added are because the kitchen essentially had
to be re-wired. By code you need certain circus dedicated for all different
wiring in the kitchen. For example the stove needs to be on its own circuit,
each GFCI needs to be on its own circuit, the fridge on its own circuit, the
dishwasher, the lights can double up on one.... Your original kitchen wiring
only had two circuits - not enough by code. This is something we were not able
to see with the walls up.

The answer perplexed us more which is why i started to think perhaps we are missing something and need someone to explain this to use!

The only thing I requested is that the kitchen light fixtures be on a dimmer not a flip switch! I did email back and posted above the GC's response. I truly believe this is all due to their stupid mistakes which they casually mentioned were my fault because I changed my mind. The slider needed to be moved down so that the refrigerator door could open and not block the entrance/exit to the house!

EDIT: Thanks The Cook's Kitchen! As i stated I believe it's an attempt to receive compensation for the mistake they made with the sliding door.

And they didn't know the kitchen needed additional circuits before they began? Didn't they already specifically mention and include all of those appliances in their contract? Was anything added after the fact by YOU that they were not aware of at the beginning?

It doesn't matter if you believe they are trying to compensate for a mistake they made with the door. Their charges are either legitimate or they aren't. Their contract states, "provide material for and rework wiring as required." So what exactly do they mean in their explanation of the extra charges by saying, "the kitchen essentially had to be re-wired"? Isn't that the same thing?

A change order isn't a change order until you sign it.

Haha true Joseph. If you ask them to stick to contract and skip the CO, do you still get exactly what you want?

I agree - no need to see what's in the walls to know if circuits needed to be added. In fact, the wiring in the wall tells one NOTHING - it's the circuit breaker box that shows what's where.

While it's a small charge for electrical, it is not something that you should be charged. But be aware that if you refuse to pay it, they may decide to play hardball and put a mechanic's lien on your house. You'll probably win but your legal fees will cost more than $500.

Joseph Corlett -- Change orders are sent after the fact. Nothing was said about needing extra work done and I was home the entire day.

Anglophillia - During the planing stage (before signing the contractor) the circuit box was looked at and we discussed expanding the box. I had someone scheduled to do the work and the contract states that "New electrical panel to be installed prior to start of project. Work to be performed by others." Therefore, they knew more circuits were needed!

Jellytoast - Nothing has been added by me or my husband. The person that they have doing demo pulled our thermostat and disconnected the wiring to our central air so their electrician needs to reconnect; currently we are using it off battery power. The same person yanked the a/c vent in the wall so hard the insulation around the a/c hose (not sure if that's the right term) got torn up and needs replacing. I pointed these things out immediately and also took photos.

I don't believe the charges are legitimate and although $550 isn't a lot of money I am not interested in being cheated and being taken for a fool.

Since when is $550 not a lot of money? The threat of a mechanic's lien would not be enough to make me pay a bill that I didn't owe for charges that were already included in my contract.

Change orders are sent after the fact? I'd put a stop to that right now.

I'm curious as to why this electrician didn't do the panel as well.

The panel was done by a friend that did it for much less; unfortunately he was heading into back surgery and not able to participate in our renovation.

The money is a good chuck of change, for sure; didn't mean it was just pocket change.

Looking back through emails, i received an email from the PM after the electrician finished his first day stating he'd be back the following day as none of the wiring was up to code. Not the least bit surprising and that was discussed during our initial meeting.

Hi,

Seems to me that there are some definite ambiguities in the contract language. I read "provide material for and rework wiring as required" to mean whatever is necessary to bring the wiring up to code. Accordingly, I don't know why you are being charged extra. Further, change orders should be agreed in writing before being performed. This smells a little funny.

There is a particular statement that needs exploring, "I truly believe this is all due to their stupid mistakes which they casually mentioned were my fault because I changed my mind."

OK...this is the crux of the issue = "...because I changed my mind."

It looks like (and this is only one side of the story) that they GC is hanging the change order on something HE believes YOU changed your mind about.

So, what is it that HE believes you changed your mind on? This is important. The "changed my mind" is an indication (in his opinion) that he can make charge for a "change order" of $550.

Please expand that issue for us. I believe it is what he is basing his CO on.

"The panel was done by a friend" there ya go. dont let your wanna be unlicensed friend touch your panel. Eat costs and pay the crew

Hmm. Was the change order an outcome of additional repairs mandated by a building inspector? If so, they may have originally thought they could get away with not adding circuits to the electrical panel, but were told otherwise if they wanted to pass inspection. And sometimes, too, contractors are working off general building codes vs. those of the local municipality which can sometimes differ. I think the best bet would be to sit down with the contractor to ask how, exactly, the change order differs from the original estimate. But in the end, $550 extra in the scheme of your entire project doesn't seem really out of line.

The change order was not mandated by the building inspector and there's plenty of room in the electrical panel. They stand firm that they didn't know the wiring was as bad as it was until the walls were opened up. In order to end the bickering I convinced them to drop it down to $400...not a huge savings but it was something and now we can move forward and finish up the renovation

yep and now youve lost respect of the contractor on $100 savings.

Oh well - respect is a 2 way street and i have no respect for them and will never provide a solid recommendation. The project was going to be halted and I am not prepared to fight over $550 when they have $20K of my money! What would you have done Thatsmuchbetter?

You have 20K worth of electrical being done to the home? Rewiring the whole thing then? Not just the kitchen?

Donna, $550 on a $20K job is less than 3% of the cost. Homeowners can and should expect a +/- swing of 10% on any estimate, and budget accordingly. If he was coming back with a change order above 10%, you might have a legitimate complaint. But if he's done a good job with the project, dinging his reputation for such a minor overage seems extreme.

The Cook's Kitchen - The electrical is only part of the $30K for the remodel. They have been paid about $20K thus far. Sorry for the confusion

Sabrina Alfin Interiors - The contractor has done an okay job. My complaint was the way the contract was written. I expected overages just not on the electrical or without talking with us first.

My only suggestion is that from now on, you hang over the contractor and ask him every question that occurs to you about the scope of work and what it's going to cost.

Once a customer spots a problem, they're likely to be on the lookout for more. One thing that guides me is to install a quality kitchen that goes smoothly enough so the customer doesn't start examining every little tiny thing. You need to be the customer that examines every little thing now.

Despite even the best efforts, unexpected and hidden conditions can present during remodeling projects. The key is that when such conditions are identified during the course of the project the contractor communicates the problem to the client and they come to some agreement regarding how to remedy the problem and at what cost before the work is performed.

Carolina Kitchen and Bath - that is exactly what I am now doing...everything is looked at in detail. The plumber came today and my husband was home with them. I had purchased 2 sinks and planned to return the cheaper of the 2. I stupidly left them both on the counter with instructions to install one. Long story short, the expensive one is now missing and the cheap one has been installed! They said that the other sink didn't fit properly! Interesting since the counter was measured for that sink. Could be an honest mistake and was accidently picked up and put in the truck...nothing has been easy and now I'm suspicious of everything.

30K is an extremely low number for a kitchen project that includes all of the electrical that you are describing. Low budget projects have cost overruns more frequently that do higher budget projects for all kinds of reasons.

If $500 is the only cost overrun on this, thank your lucky stars that the rest of the 6K contingency wasn’t needed. The average for projects like yours would be in the 70K range for all of that electrical and a kitchen remodel too.

You might think about taking a long walk and coming back to the situation with a better attitude towards your contractor. He might do the same. Start fresh.

Please, Sophie, $30k is not an extremely low budget for kitchen reno. If you think so then you are out of touch with normal people.

OP, the general consensus is to get a better grip on the scope, operation and cost of the project. Sometime you luck out with an angel GC, but don't assume.

Sophie - you are out of line. You have no idea the size of the kitchen or what the $30K included. Before you criticize know the facts, please! The total kitchen remodel is close to $55K and that's for a small, 1950's style ranch.

30K is a very low budget for a full kitchen. Much less one that is being completely rewired. . Just because you don’t like the location on the Bell doesn’t change the facts. It doesn’t mean that it can’t be functional, or nice. It just wont be on the big portion of the curve on costs of a professionally contracted remodel.

Why is $500 considered chump change??? I don't care what the overage cost is, the contractor should be able to justify it and account for it. If he writes a vague contract that is not specific as to exactly what is included, then he deserves to have his customers question him.

“The electrical is only part of the $30K for the remodel. They have been paid about $20K thus far. ”

So, it’s grown 25K just in the last few hours??

And youre wigging out about a $500 increase??

Team - We're not talking about "I decided to splurge and add $550 to my tile budget". I think it's a matter of principle to determine whether the charges are legitimate (whether $550 or $5500). How this issue gets sorted can inform how the rest of the relationship goes.

Can you tell him to continue the work and you'll settle up on the $550 at the end of the job? Then when you write the final check, deduct $550 and the amount the second sink cost you. Don't mention you'll be deducting that, just hand him the check. Let him go to court against you, not the other way around. If someone's not going to be honest with me, I don't lose any sleep over it me not being honest with them. I know I'll be carpet-bombed for saying this, but the world just doesn't work that way anymore.

If he requires a signature to complete the job, sign it and add the words "under protest."

my GC did the same to me and added a lot of BS extra charges and I ended up paying extra ~$4k on my kitchen remodel. This is the oldest trick in the book. they know they got you by the balls. I will never hire him again and tell everyone I know not to hire him. your $550 extra is just a beginning...

How difficult would it be to get another contractor to finish the job?

No one with any sense wants in the middle of a he said she said over $500. They’d either RUN, or want another 60K to step in and be responsible for the job.

The whole thing is just silly for less than 1% of a job.

There is poor documentation from the outset. Assumptions and no design documentation are not how contracts should be written. That is on both shoulders. He shouldn’t have had such a poorly written contract, and your lawyer should have been consulted. And you should have paid a Designer go provide design documentation. Plus you stuck your own par in hiring some subcontractors directly. That in of itself is a recipe for disaster.

Ephemeral change orders that were not in writing are on both shoulders. You asked for changes, and I’m betting not in writing. He added changes not in writing either. You both are in the wrong.

You need to clear the air and move forward. All of this over $500.

Move on from this issue. There is no clearing the air, your relationship with the contractor is ruined, so just let them get the project finished.. Don't expect them to respond to your issues after they leave the premises.

I had a shower tile issue that I thought was resolved early and amicably. Evidently not so. Two fairly minor problems developed after the project was completed, but these are problems that will cost me several hundred dollars. The contractor will not respond to me anymore and it's not enough money to go to court.

These people too often take a short view. I won't put out bad reviews, but I won't recommend him either.

Yes, definitely don't pay a cent until everything is to your liking. If you still want to raise the issue of the $550, tell him you'll split it with him.

This entire reno is becoming laughable. I'm thinking I should submit my fees for supervising inept contractors who can't paint, spattered paint all over my new floor and counter as well as left standing water and used a scrubber of some sort on hard wood flooring! For measuring incorrectly and trying to insist that the new window is the same size as the old (I have the measurements and a photo...it's clearly smaller). Day 1 should have prepared me for how these folks operate but being a newbie to renovation I was so optimistic...never again. The project was a total of $30,500, thus far they have been paid $22,500...i am holding off until after electrical is done before paying the next installment.

The contract written by the contractor or the electrician was poor. By his scope definition, the outlets at the counter should have been supplied. As to the wiring the wall I would've walked in and known that that wiring needed to be redone. Simply opening up one outlet and seeing that there's not a ground with a been a big hint. Are you paying the GC the extra money or the electrician? Did the electrician or GC pull a permit? If no one pulled an electrical permit, I would get the electrician to do so and then give him his $500 and make sure that all his wiring is to code at no additional cost. That alone will be worth $500. I guess the same thing can be said to the contractor let him get everything to code payments $500 and be done with the whole thing in the peace of mind. If he did a lot of other sloppy work and he's not willing to take care of you, stop paying him until he cleans up his act and you are satisfied and then payment of $500 or split it. I don't think you have an obligation to pay him the $500 but it may be worth your time to do so and not have to hassle with this guy any longer.

I really drilled down on your letter. An approximately 70 year old build was in an era of the House Jack built. Yikes! I am only able to base this upon what you wrote.

Let's see if we can get you back to the table with your contractor. You are not speaking the same language. They are human too and have the same base feelings about this project as you do. I did the math right off the bat -so you are going to need to sit down with a cuppa something. I am going to be direct and kind in that order. You may have a sub par GC - I have no way of knowing that but lets start with what you believe and shared. I'm not going to throw stones -just put a line in the sand. Badmouthing a firm is never good because eventually everyone on the jobsite works on projects together... and plays ball together. Getting huffy over $550 is not worth high blood pressure and the chance that no one will take on your next project. Life works both ways. I hope some clarity forms to help you to ask directly the GC not on social media.

Is the issue you do not understand the same language and terms? Sit at a
quiet uninterrupted table onsite BEFORE the trades show up for the day
and ask the questions you have one by one. Than you can follow up with each trade and the CG together. Make a list and have them
write the answers if you are feeling barely civil. Heat or chill is not
going to help nor are silly threats, indicated above. You need to get
the job done without a lien on your property and have the work be done
properly and be warrantied. No one wants a dirty job with bad feelings
all around. A second contractor will charge to check everything and may do it over for insurance reasons. That cost will be yours.

The biggest mistake that people do is farm out work to relatives or others. If something goes wrong your relative or friend is liable, not the GC because you gave the business elsewhere. It's crazy to offer to do a part for a job: it never fails -the advice of arm-chair renovators puts costs up, because of delays, and the dangers of working with someone in your way as they micro-inspect. NO one in any job, likes that while focusing at work. That could easily be your cost increase there. $550 may very well be one to 1-1/2 days work -depending on your trade. I agree with the other pros, this is justified within reasonable limits.

I really drilled own on your original post and perhaps in the wording is the clue. The original wording says "provide material for and rework wiring as required." The Change Order gives as a description for charges:
Electrical re-wire of kitchen. This is pulling new wire rather than using existing wires: ALL the way back to the electrical panel box. You added five circuits (MW; Fridge: Range (240?); DW; lighting). I can guarantee you that the existing wiring was not able to safely manage current draws by today's appliances. It could be many reasons: knob and tube, aluminum, wrong gauge or wrap to meet code: too many splices, etc etc. Labour costs to pull wires can be hefty. Ask about this. I honestly think you got a bargain.

GFI breakers are quite a bit more money than non-grounded. They can easily be 3 times the cost and the cost depends on the box and wires chosen. You added a minimum of 5 : there is more cost than $550 (at least where I live and I get at cost).

Was the box your third party supplied adequate?

Second worst mistake people make is expecting something, they personally picked up on sale at the big box swing area, a flea market, or cheaply online is suitable. It always best to have the contractor pull all the materials. Sometimes the deal is really no deal because its not up to UL or CSA standards. That means it is a hazard waiting to happen. 3rd party goods are often warranty problems and installers do not want to work with them.

I am adding this up in my head and the estimate is coming in 3 to 4 times higher.

This contractor did everything up to code when he could have cut corners or hide things behind the walls. Integrity is important.

Likely you got a deal and he knows it and your reaction caused more fire than the one he prevented by rewiring to code.

Find out what the crew like for coffee and get the treats and coffee and tea flowing for the rest of the project. If you are going to be micromanaging, get some steel toes and read a book on site. then the question can come to you right away and you are not underfoot. You will be glad you did. I truly hope this helps. Best wishes to all.

Laurie - Thank you for your input and your time. The disagreement is because I believed that the contract covered the items that they are charging for and if not, why not. The house is old and that's apparent. There was never a microwave or a dishwasher so of course wiring was required. The stove and refrigerator were on separate circuits and were up to code. The box was just recently upgraded by a licensed, reliable electrician.

A pattern is starting to develop though (in my eyes) - the plumber was here yesterday, replaced the baseboard heat in the kitchen. We were told that because the heating elements in the other areas of the house are old they need to be replaced because the shutoff valves are stuck in the closed position and they can't open them (they closed them and we had plenty of heat, prior). Estimated cost - $2500.

So, don’t do the perfectly reasonable change order. But, you don’t want to be able to turn your heat back on?

Donna,

I am glad you shared the pattern you are seeing. You do have a shrinkage problem and a respect (aka taken for granted) problem. I don't come across this often but it happens. Forgive me for micromanaging a bit but details are important. Ultimately, you will be able to make a informed decisions.

Please, have that meeting I advocated for and set up a proper table and few chairs for your office on site.

You are the boss. You are the homeowner. You do not read minds. You control the purse strings. Three large signs are needed before you have the meeting.

All work must be approved through a signed change order with face to face meeting.

The Boss Lady's Office.

Anything removed from job site needs to be visually checked and noted by homeowner.

You need to have your second sink in your hands by week end or a cheque cut for the amount plus handling costs. Not negotiable.

You need to have every change or problem brought to your immediate attention before any work is done. This is normal on most reno sites. Listen, ask questions, and look at all the parts being discarded. Take photos. Educating the client is part of the job. A new QUOTE, not an estimate, should be written up for each additional requirement on the job. i.e. change order.

Your heating could have very well gone. That is a separate contract. Ask the GC to give you an estimate and get two more. You are the MRP; Most Responsible Person on the site for the entire home and yard. You choose who gets the work. You pay directly when the contracted job is done with a cheque or e-payment that can be tracked.

If you are still challenged, call me on my page. I'm off recuperating from surgery right now but my brain needs a work out. There's no charge. I will put a 60 minute limit on it. But please call PST office hours. One of my recommends is from a woman whose project I was pressed to take on with a manufacture I represented. SOS.

Sophie - I guess you missed a post because the change order for electrical has been settled. The contractor made an offer to drop the charge by a few hundred. For the heating issue...i find it suspicious that it has always been fine, plumber comes in to replace kitchen baseboard but now he wants to "fix" the bleed screw in 4 places that HE over tightened. We were told 40 years ago (when we purchased the home) be careful with those bleed screws...you don't want to over tighten. It seems like a setup to get more $$. The other flag - he didn't even bother checking the screws in the other bedroom - how did he know they weren't working??

How many times during the 40 years of ownership have you exercised the valves and bleed screws? As in closed them off and opened them up. Those things need regular use, or they seize up. That goes for the shut off valves for anything in your water systems of any kinds. The toilet valves. The under the sink valves. The water main into the home. Needing repairs is a very likely scenario if they systems are of the age they sound like, and have not been regularly exercised. Heck, even if they had been regularly exercised, a 40 year old system is likely to need maintenance and repair.

Decline the change order and get in your own plumber if you want. Just not at the same time that the current contractor is working on the project.

We actually exercise the screws every year. When we first bought the house my dad went through the yearly maintenance with us and turning the shut-offs in the house along with bleeding the baseboards was on the list.

If you have an old house, you want to use finesse, not force, that's what my dad taught me. Every contractor should know that. I miss my dad.

your story is convenient

If I were working with people that I didn't respect or trust, I would finish up with the work that is called for in the contract and move on with someone else for future projects. I would not contract with them for extra work if I could avoid it. The things they discover that need to be "fixed" may very well be legitimate, but you are going to be questioning every extra at this point. IMO, it isn't worth the headache. If you don't trust the guy, don't work with him any longer than you have to.

Thatsmuchbetter -- Not sure what your comment "your story is convenient" means

Carolina Kitchen -- Missing my dad too; he would have done the renovation with my brothers and husband and I would know it was done correctly.

Jellytoast -- I will never work these people again and I will be doing a happy dance when we are finally done.