I know nothing really about GSA. Amiee joined when she was in 4th grade and because I had to attend I joined. We went to 4 meetings that were held in a Church basement. Besides me there were about 6 other mothers there and about 8 girls. At none of these meetings were there any thing structured done. The kids ran around the room playing and the mothers sat talking. At the fourth and last meeting one of the mothers finially spoke up to these running and scraming girls and told them to all come get a sticker and put it on the paper Christmas tree. Each girl was handed a sticker and they each placed it on the paper christmas tree..they were than told you have each just earned a pin.

WHAT a pin for what. We never went back. I had no desire to sit around gabbing and watching a group of girls chase each other about.

This was my experience with GSA.

OMG Mamapinky. That is terrible. Was there no leader? Why would all the mothers have to stay with 8 girls of that age? Were they special needs children? That is the only reason I can come up with.

No I was the only mother with a special child. At the first meeting I was called to join one mother alone in the kitchen where she handed me a sort of application for Amiee to join. A second one for me to join because I'd have to stay. She also requested a 70$ fee for each cash only and ask that I meet her the next day with the completed applications and the cash, I did. I'm assuming she was the leader. I don't know why all the mothers stayed. They were all just gabbing and taking turns a few at a time going outside to smoke. It was more like a play group. This wasn't my idea of being a Scout. Kids running, yelling, climbing and jumping over chairs and not one parent spoke up to these girls. The girls all looked to be about Amiees age, of 4'th grade.

I grew up with three sisters so having girls in the troop I was in would have been no big deal.

My grandmother, uncle, cousins, sister-in-law, and nieces were all heavily involved in the Girl Scouts. One of my male cousins was an Eagle Scout. When I was growing up, it almost seemed like one's civic or social duty to become involved in scouting. As social norms change, so do many social groups. I wonder if in some contexts it has become one of many activities and playdates, and sometimes the motivation is selfish (if my child is in scouts, it will look good on his/her college applications). I lately became concerned when I realized churches could sponsor scouting groups, but the Scouts are not government organizations. (And by the way, I hated scouts, but I was never a group person. I made it to Webelos and dropped out. When my parents discussed sending me to scouting camps overnight, I said I would jump off a cliff.)

Interesting side note: I was in charge of my oldest's Silver Award. I can't explain what we did as it will identify where I live. At a community event, I met a BS leader who offered us help in part of our project. It involved helping with our video presentation, which was his expertise.

He told me that I personally had to sit through all the meeting with him and the girls.

And, that it was a rule in BS that a parent of one of the BS had to be present during meetings.

All GS groups in my town had a Mom or two as a leader. I don't think this is true of BS, which brings in the stories of sexual abuse.

All in all, it looks like the GS program my girls experienced is long gone.

I agree with Arcy, GS is all about the leaders and their commitment. We met weekly so that there never was a question of, "Do we meet this week?"

The first troop I started with two other women. One was an owner of a party goods company. The other a teacher on leave. I had a master in social work with an emphasis on group work. The first year, the party good woman kept pulling in that direction. I tried to keep us on the GS track. I was happy when the Party leader's daughter said she was bored and that she could do all these crafts at home and the teacher went back to teaching. Another mom stepped in to co-lead.

I was then able to follow the curriculum that the GS offers through training at their headquarters and in the guidebook. Learning the GS ways was made it different than a sports group or craft group. Badges were chosen specifically with the girl's interests in mind. The majority loved animals, science and outdoors. One loved cooking! (She turned out to become a food scientist)

Many lose interest in middle school. Meetings were off-site and in the evening, usually at my house. The peer pressure of not being cool as a scout was taken out of the equation.

I don't know of any group that gives girls the opportunity to learn leadership as this program was able to do.

Thinking about it, there's never going to be a "perfect" organization. So what's "good enough"?

For me, the Boy Scouts Eagle award, combined with their recent attempts to recognize changed social norms, makes them worth trying to save so I wish them luck.

Eld6161, I also found that it was difficult to direct the curriculum in scouts. You have a book and can pick and choose from that. We had parents that didn't like certain things, but weren't willing to volunteer to help to fill in where needed.. On the other hand, I found when I held back in volunteering because there were so many adult meetings that took my time from my own family. We were already a family that did things well beyond what some of the other families did. I didn't mind including other kids and their families, but there was so much red tape. We also had one group of parents that were there before everyone else. They were were very cliquish and didn't want to let go of control even though it was hurting the group as a whole.

In the Bay Area a BSA employee told me they had three impediments to recruiting Boy Scouts. The called it their 3Gs problem: God (the need for belief in,) Girls (their lack of,) and Gays (their barring of, at the time.)

I guess I lucked out with my GS experience. We never had a complaint from a parent. My co-leader and I complemented each other very well. She was great at making sure our troop met all our official requirements, while my focus was on the creative projects. Together, she and I and the Scouts had a lot of fun. I seriously don't know if they learned any leadership skills, but they surely learned something from activities they were unlikely to have been exposed to otherwise.

One example is when we had them listen to some pieces of music and write down their impressions. I made copies of what they wrote about two of the pieces, and sent them to the composer, Aaron Copland--and he wrote back to us.

These were middle-school girls, and it was back in the 1980's. I never heard of the Gold Award.

My thought too was "WHY"? Although I feel that women can do a lot more than they were allowed to do when I was a teen and early adulthood, I still feel that some organizations should be gender specific.

Eld6161, I can assure you that the opportunitites for girls to learn leadership are everywhere. There isn't much separating girls from boys, but I just don't think that's necessary. Let's see. SBA (student leadership) through the schools comes to mind.

Our daughter participates in a So. Cal. program professionally run that has to do with storm water pollution prevention (SWPPP). At our school, it is an honor to be selected for the program--there are too many kids who want to do it. The kids do all kinds of scientific work, professionally supervised, and later, will actually take on advisory roles to businesses and construction. A girl from our school spoke at a convention recently. They've had their pictures in the paper. The kids visit the lagoons and natural water resources around here. They have visited the dam, and the water treatment facility, and are learning about de-salination. This year, our daughter will be a "supervisor" (still elementary school). She wants to be a water rights attorney someday, so if she sticks with it, it's a great resume-builder.

The YMCA has an excellent leadership training program for teens (L.I.T.). Also, local sports clubs offer leadership opportunities. Our older boys founded a program through the Boys & Girls club to teach basketball skills to underserved kids.

So, I guess my point is that the opportunities for leadership training are so diverse and varied, that girl scouts, while still providing opportunities of course, just hasn't kept up in terms of satisfying today's kids' needs. I think the biggest problem it has is that it requires volunteers at the local level. And as someone mentioned above, the work/time required of the volunteers is onerous.

Alisande your experience sounds like mine, in the 90's. I was scout leader for my daughter's troop for several years. We had a blast! They were mainly interested in crafts and animals. We took 10% of our cookie money and donated it to our local animal shelter. We went camping at a girl scout camp.

I was never impressed with the regional/district GS office. They offered next to no help but they sure took a big chunk of our cookie money.

When it was time for the girls to go to middle school it was decided they didn't want to have a troop any more. I had figured it wasn't "cool" in middle school so I wasn't surprised.

We had collected $1 dues each week and I kept track of each of them. When we disbanded the regional office had suggested the money in our bank account be given to them. I didn't think so! We again donated some to the animal shelter and the rest I gave back to the girls based on how much in dues they had paid that year.

I don't think girls should join boy scouts but perhaps the time has come to just have Scouts, with both genders.

With all the changes going on in this world, it shouldn't matter one way or another. You have boys becoming girls, girls becoming boys. Anymore you can't tell who's who. Boys going to the girls room, girl's going to the boys room. You may as well mix them together. Let them all be one gender and play equally in all sports and activities. That way, there's no argument. As long as they treat each other with respect there should be no problem.

I think there is already a scout group for both sexes called Adventure Scouts. My daughter was too young to join a local group at the time.

In the 60s I was a girl scout and also in 4-H and attended camps with both. 4-H included boys of course, but there were no real problems; sleeping arrangements were segregated. I liked 4-H better. It was less cliquish and competitive, and I learned more, and had more freedom in choosing what I wanted to focus on. I did sewing and cooking. I loved the Girl Scout handbook though, and remember thinking, wow, how could anyone earn very many badges except for camping-type stuff, with the little we did at meetings (mostly parties and crafts). We were supposed to do the requirements of many on our own.

It is my understanding that even if girls joins the boy scouts,they will be in girls only "dens". It's not even really going to be coed then. What is the point of that???? It does sound like a ploy to generate revenue.

Is there something wrong with generating revenue? If all members have access to better programs with more resources, don't the kids benefit?

I have noticed something about "leadership" opportunities mentioned for girls in this thread. The leadership leans toward service. Save the trees , save the water, help the disadvantaged. Boys are encouraged to give service also, of course, but are given opportunities in scouts for so much more. When we went GS camping the rules were so stringent for safety it often felt like a daycare field trip. I remember there were rules about not allowing younger girls to roast marshmallows. LOL When DS went camping with the Boy Scouts he was challenged to take risks, attempt new things and build survival skills albeit under watchful eyes. Now Girl Scouts have sold off many of their camps.

That's why I loved Indian Princesses. Men with daughters on camp-outs didn't smother them with over-protectiveness.

Reminds me a bit of when boys got to be engineers or doctors and girls got to be teachers or nurses. Seems like some things haven't changed all that much.

The marshmallow thing has gotten even worse. unbelievable.

Hi Folks! A new development on the safety front to ponder o’er the weekend! – L

Dear Free-Range Kids: A few weeks ago, my daughter’s girl scout troop was invited to a sing-a-long with other troops, and they would have s’mores. There was a bubble on the form telling parents not to worry… the s’mores will be campfire-free and made with graham crackers, chocolate and marshmallow fluff. Really?!?! She’s in third grade. I remember in first grade making sit-upons (and roasting my own marshmallow), second grade the rolled newspaper and wax fire starters (and roasting my own marshmallow) and third grade was the big year you got to be the pyromaniac… I mean fire-starter. — Was’more Fun Back Then

http://www.freerangekids.com/smore-safety/

(Sigh)Elmer,no. There is nothing wrong with generating revenue. However, they are making such a din about how they are going to open membership to girls,then quietly separating them into their own group separate from the boys anyway. So it seems that they are trying to lure membership fees away from girl scouts,without truly including them. It's an attempt to seem progressive. It remains to be seen if they offer something positive that the girl scouts do not. Here's hoping they do,and it is not as it seems,to me anyway.

ETA: I really think there are way better programs out there for children today than either "scout" program.

I have not read all the posts above. I was a Girl Scout in 6th grade, when we'd just moved to our neighborhood, and so... 6th grade is definitely when cliques are dominant. I was a tom boy. I cannot ever know for certain, but I do believe had I been able to go for the boy scouting badges, I'd have a lot more favorable feeling towards this whole Scouting thing all together. My year in Girl Scouts was absolute misery. I spit on Mint Thins.

The only weekend camp out I attended.. we were all supposed to climb a "mountain", which being in NY wasn't really a mountain. (Catskills, not Adirondacks). I was the only one who made it to the top, along with two counselors who had to be available. I got back down and spent the rest of the weekend harassed by my peers (who didn't finish the climb) AND by the counselors who felt put upon because I'd actually done it and they had to be there. Yep, after that, I was DONE with GS.

For me, the oldest child and only girl in a family with 5 brothers, Brownies and Girl Scouts were very important in my development. I was a Senior Scout in 1970 when I graduated from HS. I was ridiculed by my band teacher for missing some practices because of GS activities. What an ass he was.

I learned so much from Scouting - my father was a Boy Scout leader, all of my brothers were in Scouts. My mother worked for the Girl Scout organization. But this was back in the 60's. We lived in small towns in the midwest. I remember one badge I acquired as a sophomore in HS for survival skills and primitive camping.

I loved GS camp every year. Would not have been the same with boys. I credit my self-confidence to my Scouting experiences and I'm 65 now. Too bad to hear that GS has been watered down.

P.S. The cookie sales were a competitive event and I always wanted to be #1. I often was.

Seagrass, I do understand. I did have to learn this stuff on my own, not through GS. In my case, that organization did not work for me, but I am very glad it worked for you. Actually, I do donate some cash to Girl Scouts out on the road now, them wanting to hawk their (these days, inedible) cookies. In hopes this helps them in some way. (This is solely for the girls as individuals, NOT for the organization.)

With each post, other memories are being brought back for me. Again, the troop success is all about the leaders.

I think that even though girls will be separated, they would still follow the BS program.

The GS organization needs to understand what they are lacking and work toward making sure girls stay interested. If it means examining what the BS organization is doing that is now more attractive, than so be it.

I still think there is something to be said for single-gender programs. This is specifically why some parents choose all girl or boy schools for their kids. For those who can't afford it, these programs are even more important.

I still don't get why the cookie sales have become front and center in the public eye. It is really a very small part of the year. Even if we tried to stretch it, by holding meetings about sales, budgeting etc it still only took a few meetings.

Artemis - I agree. The cookies aren't what they used to be. But I will spring for a box or 2 of the thin mints and keep them in the freezer. They taste better frozen, and last longer. I used to love the peanut butter cookies but they're not as good anymore.

I think each den can choose whether to be all boy, all girl or coed.

The caramel delights ,now samoas, used to be the best to me. Now keebler makes a chocolate coconut cookie that tastes WAY better,and costs less.

This may sound far-fetched, but why shouldn't they sell healthy food, even their own grown vegetables and herbs? Or at least healthy manufacturer's crackers? Buying sugar is really not helping anyone. Or maybe that healthy dark chocolate? I would buy that. The cookie program is outdated.

I think the cookie program is more symbolic than anything at this point. I know a lot of people who buy cookies to support the girls but don't actually eat them because they aren't very good.

I don't think the cookie program can be discounted. A friend in grocery said they see a hit to their cookies during cookie sale time, and its an absolutely enormous fundraiser for the organization and Troops. A few years ago, GS required all Troop volunteers to be members ($25 membership fee every year). So a "cookie Mom" used to be able to just volunteer to pick up and organize the orders -- now that person has to register and pay a membership fee. I read it as a moneymaking move, that scares away volunteers.

GS developed a "Journey program" and Troops are required to do one if any members want to pursue a Bronze, Silver, or Gold award. Well, every Troop member has to purchase a Journey book and there are leader Journey books and there's workshops that can be attended to either learn how to lead for that Journey or for girls to go and complete much of the journey - they cost money.

Then they added restrictions -- if Troops wanted to sell cookies, they then have to participate in the fall sale (magazines, candy). And then Troops are being prohibited from holding any fundraisers during cookie sale time (which has expanded, time-wise) -- so how on earth can the scout Troops fundraise for their own activities?

They streamlined badges -- so girls need to complete a series of activites in order to earn a badge, instead of a simple activity = badge. That's fine by me. However, they have badges at all levels based on learning "business" and its focused on maximizing cookie sales.

I'm sure they had good reasons and consultants who dreamed up all this stuff -- but to me it reads as an emphasis on making money over the interests and needs of the girls.

I am hopeful the competition from Boy Scouts will push both organizations to be the best they can be, for the kids involved. I have no doubt its a competitive business. However, in my opinion, the path they have chosen over the past 10 years is not the way to do it.

I have two boys, both of whom participated in scouting. One is an Eagle Scout and the other is a Life Scout (one step just below Eagle). The big issue back then (15 years ago) was the fact that there were some female leaders of Boy Scout troops in our area. A lot of indignation and resentment on the part of some of the Scouts, and some of the male leaders, too. (We live in Missouri.)

I didn't care. Those female leaders (mothers of Scouts, I assume) were putting a great deal of time and effort in a male-dominated area. As long as they could physically do it, and wanted to, what's the difference? And that's how I feel about girls becoming Boy Scouts, too. Just change the "Boy" to something else.

And I've never heard of a Gold Award, either.

Girl Scout cookies don't taste very good any more and I think the troop still only gets $.50 per box. Boy scouts sell popcorn and other things so the girls will still be selling something.

Boy scouts do get to roast marshmallows. We were taught to make campfires in third or fourth grade. I helped out at one girl scout event where the girls were making sock puppets. I got spoken to for handing the girls the hot glue gun and letting them glue their own eyes on.

That's sad that the kids aren't able to use "dangerous" things. In my Montessori preschool our 3 and 4 year olds use knives to prepare food. They slice bananas for snack and cut up food for special projects, like when we made guacamole.

I got spoken to for handing the girls the hot glue gun and letting them glue their own eyes on.

Oh good grief! DGD is only 5 and used a hot glue gun just the other night at the science program I mentioned above.

H B thanks for the update. I guess the organization is trying what they can to stay afloat.

I know that my headquarters had to combine with another county. They also began hiring community supervisors as part-time workers as the full-time people started to retire. So, lots of cutbacks.

There are two Bakeries that bake the cookies. Ours was always Little Brownie. That is why a Caramel Delight and Samoas are thought of as the same cookie but are not. And, other names and sometimes even different cookies are offered in different regions. I have tasted ABC and I don't think they are as good as Little Brownie.

IIRC once in a while, they offered a healthier type cookie, but it never was popular.

I see nothing wrong with cookies as a fundraiser. In real life, everyone enjoys a treat now and then.

Coincidentally I have been up for the last hour texting with DD who is starting to question herself on even putting DGD into Daisys. Her first text was "I'm so stressed. Can we chat?" She's fearing it will be boring and a waste of time and money after having gone over the materials. She is questioning if she is doing it because it's expected or for DGD. There is not much there in Daisy's that DGD hasn't been doing all along. But she does have friends in the troop and may still enjoy the camaraderie. I'm thinking she will go ahead since she already invested some in it. But if she does she will be a helper, not a co leader, if she doesn't just walk away.

The comments here at this site say it all. The Girl Scout organization is not listening. These are from people who have an interest in wanting GS to work. Their concerns seem to have fallen on deaf ears. For years. Hence the Boy Scouts issue.
https://gsmembersupportersurvey.weebly.com/petition-to-change-the-national-program-portfolio.html

In Ontario we have the Scouts (I think just referred to as "Scouts Canada" and was basically Boy Scouts) and Girl Guides. Girls can already join the "Scouts". Why would they want to? Well, over the years the focus of Girl Guides has turned to girl empowerment and leadership, and Scouts have a focus on camping and outdoors/nature activities. Some Girl Guide/Pathfinder groups focus a lot on camping etc. but many no longer do that as much. So if you want to go camping and "adventuring" then Scouts was a better choice. I do believe it is co-ed groups here, though.

I don't have an issue with Girls joining Scouts, and figure it would be okay for boys to join Girl Guides if they wanted to, but the draw for that would probably not be as great. The uniform colours, and programming I don't think would attract boys, except for at the very lowest age levels.

Dances.

DD decided to walk away. It was hard for her to make the decision but Girl Scouts seems broken. The expenses and the paperwork are insane. The new program doesn't seem to have a single thing to offer that DGD doesn't already do. The new program is nothing like it was even 20 years ago. The only reason to put her in is to have her experience belonging to an organized group with uniforms etc. If she asks to join a troop she may, but meanwhile DD is going to look into 4 H and see if there are any Cloverleafs (ages 5-8) near her.

That's a shame. But if there are alternatives like 4 H that's great.

I think GS paid the wrong people to evaluate their system.

As a leader, we were required to go to headquarters for training. They even offered the first aid that was required. There were other training opportunities that you could take advantage of as well. Girls had to be registered every year, and records kept of dues collected.

Because I was a responsible leader, I attended the month leader's meeting in my town. I eventually volunteered as the community director and ran those meetings.

Paperwork did not seem overwhelming at that time.

Eld61621 ... DD was in Girl Scouts from Brownies through most of Cadettes. I was a leader or co leader for Brownies and Juniors. DH was Packmaster for the local Cub Scouts and it seemed like I wore the hat of everything else. Award chair mostly. Parental involvement was difficult to get even back in the 80's. One year DH led a group of Webelos because no leader could be found. He was also leading our DS's Den at the time.

DD has good memories of Girl Scouts despite the usual glitches of some crazy leaders and cliques. She had hoped for the same experience for DGD. But the new program is just nowhere near as interesting as it once was. Plenty of leaders and girls complain it is just like school. Now Girls Scouts are allowing, even encouraging mixed level troops. The Troop DGD would have been in would have been a mix of Daisies and Juniors. Some of the Juniors would be bridging to Cadettes the following year. DGD would have been the youngest and the only Kindergartener in the Daisy group of 8. As DD learned more of the leader's plan she saw a train wreck ahead. The leader decided all the parents would take turns leading the two levels. Sure they will. ROTFLMBO She has a girl in each and wanted them to do the same things as much as possible. A 1st and a 4th grader. Shaking my head. Never been in scouts, didn't want anyone harshing on her mellow with constructive advice. Then she decided all the paperwork was overwhelming and wanted to have DD do it for her so she could "lead". See the problem? DD felt she would be left picking up the pieces after the train derailed. The Journeys are boring. The crafts were all that would have mattered to DGD.

They are friends. DD is open to the friendship remaining outside of scouts but she concluded there was zero hope if she stayed on out of guilt.

I'm sure whether the experiences offered by any one outpost of any organization is awesome or dreadful depends a lot on the enthusiasm and energy of the adult leaders. Kids are usually busy enough with other activities. I'm sure part of the decline of scouting of both types is that some are more old fashioned than cool. Wearing a uniform? Seriously?

There are too many other activities for kids and parents to choose from.

Watchme, I can't imagine mixing the ages! When my girls were older we did community service type things with the younger troops, but actually be in the same troop?

I always had parental involvement. For the most part, the parents chipped in, but not always. We had the annual camping trip which meant I need parents to actually sleep over as well as help driving the girls and equipment. No takers! My co-leader and I send a letter explaining that we had enough room for x amount of girls between our two cars, what should we do about the lack of room for the others, because we intended to go.

I never saw parents volunteer faster. They worked things out between them, some drove up, some home etc. Never had an issue after that.

I wonder who is coming up with all these ideas?

Elmer, you don't have to wear a whole uniform in GS. In Brownies the girls just wore a vest. In the next levels just a sash. These were primarily for the badges they earned.

I think the shock of girls wanting to join the Boy Scouts has sent GS in a tizzy.

When I was leading more girls had full uniforms because the Scouts would meet at the schools. It was a matter of pride for some to wear their uniforms to school on meeting days and some even wanted to wear them on picture days. It was the same when I was a child. I was a Bluebird/Campfire Girl and there was a lot of teasing between Campfire and Scouts. "Bluebirds eat Brownies, Brownies hunt Bluebirds." We'd probably be expelled for bullying today. (eyeroll) Today most girls just wear a sash or vest.

I was in Daisies in kindergarten in the late 80's and we just had a blue vest, I think. I don't remember much else about it other than we made picture frames once for our moms with glued-on macaroni and pink spray paint! I wonder why she didn't keep it, lol.

My two grand Eagles said they would have never been in BS if girls were in there. GS has their own Gold Award if they want a "higher " award to obtain.

Did they give a reason, phoggie? I am curious as I find that sentiment a bit sad.

I was a Brownie and a Girl Scout. Working on all those badges just didn't interest me and I dropped out by junior high. My son was a Cub Scout - had no time or interest to continue with Boy Scouts. DD was a Brownie and never went further. DGS1 tried Cub Scouts - wasn't interested even though his father had achieved Eagle Scout status. So had my later FIL - a real bond for those two men.

Scouting is on the decline today as it is too time consuming for the PARENTS. It's a lot easier to just sign a child up for a team, drop the child off and pick up later. Pay the bill and that's it. Scouting is all about parent involvement and parents have little interest in that today.

It's a shame - scouting made a huge difference in the lives of many children in the past. I think this "girls in Boy Scouts" is just all about attention-getting.

After all the issues and controversy they are now trying to be politically correct to show they are open-minded!

I agree with Phoggie's grandsons. There needs to be a place for just girl and just boys. This is why some elect to send their children to private/ parochial schools.

There are just some things that girls and boys need and want to discuss without the opposite gender.

I am not familiar with the BS program, but I think it is more rigorous and competitive. I seem to remember a miniature soapbox derby. I think there are events where all the dens get together and compete. GS did not do this. We got together for fun events like International dinners, ice skating, sleepovers at museums, and community camping trips.

If girls want that added edge for college, the Gold Award will certainly be equal to the Eagle Award.

I think people are missing the point about the gold award versus eagle. It's not the merit of either.

It's not the award. it the path to getting there. Girl Scouts pushes service and leadership connected to service. Boy Scouts focuses service, leadership, physical fitness and outdoor skills. A Girl Scout can r take a path to earn a gold award without ever having learned to swim, tie a knot or even know how to cook. A boy scout need to be proficient in all the above and then some.

It's not the value of the award. It's girls wanting the same opportunity as boys to go out and learn scouting. A girl interested in forestry is simply not going to have her needs met in today's Girl Scouts. There may be exceptions in some part of the country but it would be a major exception.

The sad truth is that Girls Scouts of America are now run by a bunch of progressive new age feminists. The leader who took her girls camping, taught them to sleep on the ground and read a compass is no longer and identify edible plants is no longer.

A friend recently posted a pic of her girls at camporee. The smores were pre-assembled by the girls in foil packets and heated. No marshmallows on sticks, no camp fire. The craft was painting a dollar store pail with poster paint.

My 8 year old cub scout back in the day, whittled, shot rifles, zip lined and learned to turn his underwear inside out for a second wearing. Humor.